Selective enforcement once again: NCAA strikes again

[stinger78]

The NCAA is a prime example of an entity that has more authority than it has expertise. It should be clear to anyone watching that the NCAA has no idea how to run CFB. It can penalize programs, and even kill programs, but it has no clue (apparently) how to structure CFB rules fairly in light of recent litigation.

The NCAA needs a broad restructuring itself, IMPO. Perhaps there needs to be a commissioner of college sports and a deputy commissioner for each sport (or every 2-3 in the case of some minor sports). These guys become the experts who then work with college presidents to bring about meaningful oversight. Each deputy has an enforcement officer who convenes investigation committees for their sport(s). He trains them and takes their input back to the group of enforcement officers to render decisions. The COI does not make the decision, the enforcement officers do according to the rules.

 

[roadkill]

The NCAA's concept of Amateurism in collegiate sports received a fatal wound in the O'Bannon decision and died completely after Alston.

They have taken to issuing "guidance" instead of "rules" for anything that might be construed as restricting S-A compensation, for fear of being sued under the Sherman Act. The problem that the NCAA has now is that the very concept of a centralized entity making any rules for S-As that restrict income, and that don't exist for regular students, is likely to be viewed as collusion and a violation of Sherman.

I'm a little surprised the FSU isn't fighting their violations like UT is.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

I’m following this as many of friends are involved at UT or with the football team there.

My understanding is that a player signed with a collective and received payment before being recruited by UT. UT states that a) that’s not against the rules, because b) there are no rules, and c) the NCAA is setting a guideline and enforcing it as rule for past behavior. (Ex post facto).

The NCAA is seeking Congress to grant antitrust exemptions but it doesn’t look like they will act. The NCAA may not survive the lawsuit.

I do not dispute any of your response or the absurdity of how the NCAA is acting. I just find it equally absurd that the Tenn folks seem to think that crap does not stink.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The NCAA's concept of Amateurism in collegiate sports received a fatal wound in the O'Bannon decision and died completely after Alston.

They have taken to issuing "guidance" instead of "rules" for anything that might be construed as restricting S-A compensation, for fear of being sued under the Sherman Act. The problem that the NCAA has now is that the very concept of a centralized entity making any rules for S-As that restrict income, and that don't exist for regular students, is likely to be viewed as collusion and a violation of Sherman.

I'm a little surprised the FSU isn't fighting their violations like UT is.

I think the issue with FSU was that a coach got involved with the student and the NIL group by driving him and his parents to a meeting. No restriction on the kid, just on the coach for getting involved. I think that was pretty lame, but whatever. I would have said FSU should have lawyered up, but then I've seen the quality of lawyering those FSU lawyers are doing. They would have probably ended up getting FSU the death penalty.

 

[forensicbuzz]

A former D1 player told me this:

You have to pay players, at least ... something. There is too much work involved preparing for football and many of the players come from less advantaged areas, so they will be ripe for exploitation. His idea was to have each recruiting class (e.g., Class of 2024, 2025, etc) be awarded a percentage of the football budget; e.g., X% of the gate; Y% of the media, etc. And as long as you remain with the team, you will earn that and it will pay out over time. However, if you transfer ... you resign your funds (which are distributed to the remaining players) and you join the NEXT class at the destination school. So, players have to really evaluate if it is worth it to transfer or not.

He says it is folly to pay QB's millions through NIL when it is the OL and receivers that make a QB possible. He prefers a more distributed method because it would be better for overall team morale. (He was a team captain and says that role today is increasingly meaningless as the sport has become everyman for himself.)

In his view, the portal is what is killing the game and you need to take steps to reduce player mobility. He is also a coach and says it is very difficult to coach a team when players only meet for the first time at Spring practice. Some even later than that.

That said, he lamented the fact that while he was part of a group advising NIL at the NCAA, the NCAA showed little to no interest in creating a system that makes sense. There really are no rules and it's increasingly going to be pay to play.

There apparently have been proposals after proposals with no action by the NCAA. Which is the core issue. They really do need a Commissioner of CFB to run it. It is devolving into "whatever the market will bear" ... absolutely.

We all know that football and men's basketball make the college athletic world go round. However, Title IX has to be part of that calculus, so depending on the number of male athletes and the ratio at the university, $$ has to go to women's programs too. I see Men's Olympic sports being the big loser here.

 

[MWBATL]

Isn't the big problem with NIL and the NCAA that some states have passed laws which enable things like Collectives, and thus the NCAA guidelines become violations of state law. If my understanding of this is correct, then in fact there is NO WAY the NCAA can control NIL anymore. It has become a Federal issue, OR an issue that the Colleges themselves must negotiate with a (gasp) Players' Union. Even then I am not sure it would be immune from local laws...

Pay for Play, here we come.

 

[Vespidae]

Isn't the big problem with NIL and the NCAA that some states have passed laws which enable things like Collectives, and thus the NCAA guidelines become violations of state law. If my understanding of this is correct, then in fact there is NO WAY the NCAA can control NIL anymore. It has become a Federal issue, OR an issue that the Colleges themselves must negotiate with a (gasp) Players' Union. Even then I am not sure it would be immune from local laws...

Pay for Play, here we come.

My understanding is that the NCAA defers to state law. Fifty sets of rules.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Y’all acting like the sport is dying or as someone said the portal “is killing the sport” is just factually wrong. Many of y’all don’t like NIL or the portal. And many of the talking heads in the media don’t like it. So freaking what. The sport is as strong, if not stronger than ever. The playoffs have been a huge success. The regular season saw sold out stadiums and big time games. You may not like NIL or the portal (I absolutely love the portal and understand why we have NIL), but stop with the melodrama that the game is worse off. It’s simply not. Look at our own freaking team. We lost some players and we gained some players. It’s always been that way and I‘m not freaking out because a player left after 1, 2, or 3 years just like I didn‘t freak out when we lost players after. 4 years. It’s sports not indentured servitude. If a player wants to leave then I don’t want him sticking around anyway whining about “what could have been”. We recently got a DLineman from FSU. I have no clue if he’ll be a good player for us or not, but I know he shouldn’t be forced to stay at a school for 4 years just because a coach got him to sign a piece of paper when he was 17 or 18 years old. I find the freaking out quite interesting though. I wish y’all would have shown this much disdain when GT was competing against teams with bought players for decade after decade. The bagman was WAY worse than NIL or the portal.

 

[Vespidae]

Y’all acting like the sport is dying or as someone said the portal “is killing the sport” is just factually wrong. Many of y’all don’t like NIL or the portal. And many of the talking heads in the media don’t like it. So freaking what. The sport is as strong, if not stronger than ever. The playoffs have been a huge success. The regular season saw sold out stadiums and big time games. You may not like NIL or the portal (I absolutely love the portal and understand why we have NIL), but stop with the melodrama that the game is worse off. It’s simply not. Look at our own freaking team. We lost some players and we gained some players. It’s always been that way and I‘m not freaking out because a player left after 1, 2, or 3 years just like I didn‘t freak out when we lost players after. 4 years. It’s sports not indentured servitude. If a player wants to leave then I don’t want him sticking around anyway whining about “what could have been”. We recently got a DLineman from FSU. I have no clue if he’ll be a good player for us or not, but I know he shouldn’t be forced to stay at a school for 4 years just because a coach got him to sign a piece of paper when he was 17 or 18 years old. I find the freaking out quite interesting though. I wish y’all would have shown this much disdain when GT was competing against teams with bought players for decade after decade. The bagman was WAY worse than NIL or the portal.

Financially, it’s never been better. I agree. And along with that, lawsuits … one after another over … not the game … but the money. Always money. Lots of it.

Welcome to Potterville.

 

[stinger78]

CFB is FUBAR.

 

[Vespidae]

CFB is FUBAR.

Let me give my experience to the system we’ve created. Easy transfers and big money.

Money drives it all. Are you pleased that players are awash in money? That they pay other students to do their coursework?

I need a paper by Friday for my Anthropology class. How’s $10,000? I cant do lab Tuesday. Here’s $5,000. Can you do it for me? No? C’mon man. How about $20,000 and you carry me for the quarter?

Think it cheapens the degree? Fine. They can carry a ball faster than you can. But this is happening TODAY. I have seen it firsthand.

If it’s that important that a school gets player and you look the other way at the real shady stuff that’s happening… no, I’m not on board with that. And I guarantee it’s happening at Tech. It’s happening everywhere. Because players don’t have any accountability anymore. Just transfer.

No thanks. Losing one’s moral compass to win a few games isn’t ok.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

A former D1 player told me this:

You have to pay players, at least ... something. There is too much work involved preparing for football and many of the players come from less advantaged areas, so they will be ripe for exploitation. His idea was to have each recruiting class (e.g., Class of 2024, 2025, etc) be awarded a percentage of the football budget; e.g., X% of the gate; Y% of the media, etc. And as long as you remain with the team, you will earn that and it will pay out over time. However, if you transfer ... you resign your funds (which are distributed to the remaining players) and you join the NEXT class at the destination school. So, players have to really evaluate if it is worth it to transfer or not.

He says it is folly to pay QB's millions through NIL when it is the OL and receivers that make a QB possible. He prefers a more distributed method because it would be better for overall team morale. (He was a team captain and says that role today is increasingly meaningless as the sport has become everyman for himself.)

In his view, the portal is what is killing the game and you need to take steps to reduce player mobility. He is also a coach and says it is very difficult to coach a team when players only meet for the first time at Spring practice. Some even later than that.

That said, he lamented the fact that while he was part of a group advising NIL at the NCAA, the NCAA showed little to no interest in creating a system that makes sense. There really are no rules and it's increasingly going to be pay to play.

There apparently have been proposals after proposals with no action by the NCAA. Which is the core issue. They really do need a Commissioner of CFB to run it. It is devolving into "whatever the market will bear" ... absolutely.

Good insight.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Financially, it’s never been better. I agree. And along with that, lawsuits … one after another over … not the game … but the money. Always money. Lots of it.

Welcome to Potterville.

There has ALWAYS been money involved. This sport has NEVER been pure. The bowl system was the biggest mafia run sports system I’ve ever seen. They paid everyone off from AD’s, to sports writers, to TV execs to ensure their matchups while hosing the fans. Nothing has changed other than the players are no longer forced to stay and they get to put their hand out as much as the coaches do now. The expanded playoff will only create more interest and more money. I can’t wait.

 

[Vespidae]

There has ALWAYS been money involved. This sport has NEVER been pure. The bowl system was the biggest mafia run sports system I’ve ever seen. They paid everyone off from AD’s, to sports writers, to TV execs to ensure their matchups while hosing the fans. Nothing has changed other than the players are no longer forced to stay and they get to put their hand out as much as the coaches do now. The expanded playoff will only create more interest and more money. I can’t wait.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Be careful what you wish for.

What should I be careful of? Do you think they would actually institute a system where 20 schools get to pay players with cash, cars, and women, while NEVER even being investigated, while other schools get banners taken down and put on probation for a player getting clothes from a relative? Do you think they would actually institute a system where local sportswriters, who are given access to programs by the schools themselves, would simply vote for their local/regional team as National Champion without a single game being played to see who would actually win on the field? They would never have that type of system would they?

I love that everything is now above board. NIL has been around for decades (see Herschel and Cam - let alone the hundreds of other players that caused us to lose games that we don’t know about). I love that now every team can take part of a pay to play system without fear of probation. And I love the fact that money has forced an expanded playoff. And that more money will create an even larger playoff field (so a team like GT can actually get in).

Most of the anxiety from most of you comes down to insecurity in your own team and your belief that GT can’t pay enough for players so you want to fight the system. To that I say, this is not new. We have been outbid for players for decades which is why we went from a premier program to a mid level program. The portal has brought us the best QB since Godsey and I love it.

 

[Vespidae]

What should I be careful of? Do you think they would actually institute a system where 20 schools get to pay players with cash, cars, and women, while NEVER even being investigated, while other schools get banners taken down and put on probation for a player getting clothes from a relative? Do you think they would actually institute a system where local sportswriters, who are given access to programs by the schools themselves, would simply vote for their local/regional team as National Champion without a single game being played to see who would actually win on the field? They would never have that type of system would they?

I love that everything is now above board. NIL has been around for decades (see Herschel and Cam - let alone the hundreds of other players that caused us to lose games that we don’t know about). I love that now every team can take part of a pay to play system without fear of probation. And I love the fact that money has forced an expanded playoff. And that more money will create an even larger playoff field (so a team like GT can actually get in).

Most of the anxiety from most of you comes down to insecurity in your own team and your belief that GT can’t pay enough for players so you want to fight the system. To that I say, this is not new. We have been outbid for players for decades which is why we went from a premier program to a mid level program. The portal has brought us the best QB since Godsey and I love it.

You didn't read my post (see above).

Everything ISN'T above board. There are cash payments being made TODAY by students for coursework. Why? Because they can. I know one personally who was simultaneously enrolled at 5 institutions. Who is checking on this? No one.

You might be ok with this, I don't know. But it is bleeding over into other non-sports areas. If you really want it above board, make them all a union, eliminate enrollment requirements and make it truly professional.

 

[stinger78]

You didn't read my post (see above).

Everything ISN'T above board. There are cash payments being made TODAY by students for coursework. Why? Because they can. I know one personally who was simultaneously enrolled at 5 institutions. Who is checking on this? No one.

You might be ok with this, I don't know. But it is bleeding over into other non-sports areas. If you really want it above board, make them all a union, eliminate enrollment requirements and make it truly professional.

Yuck. But I don’t know that it can go any other way.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

You didn't read my post (see above).

Everything ISN'T above board. There are cash payments being made TODAY by students for coursework. Why? Because they can. I know one personally who was simultaneously enrolled at 5 institutions. Who is checking on this? No one.

You might be ok with this, I don't know. But it is bleeding over into other non-sports areas. If you really want it above board, make them all a union, eliminate enrollment requirements and make it truly professional.

I will add the illegal and unethical tampering of players who are not in the portal but in other programs is not above board and does not make the situation better than the old version. While there was pay for play, it was nothing compared to what is going to today. Replacing a corrupt system with an even more corrupt system is not progress.

 

[Vespidae]

I will add the illegal and unethical tampering of players who are not in the portal but in other programs is not above board and does not make the situation better than the old version. While there was pay for play, it was nothing compared to what is going to today. Replacing a corrupt system with an even more corrupt system is not progress.

Herbstreit noted Harbaugh's departutre to the NFL along with BC's coach. There is simply too much to do in CFB (recruiting, re-recruiting the roster, NIL, etc) that the NFL is looking increasingly attractive for those that just want to coach.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You didn't read my post (see above).

Everything ISN'T above board. There are cash payments being made TODAY by students for coursework. Why? Because they can. I know one personally who was simultaneously enrolled at 5 institutions. Who is checking on this? No one.

You might be ok with this, I don't know. But it is bleeding over into other non-sports areas. If you really want it above board, make them all a union, eliminate enrollment requirements and make it truly professional.

I hear you on that but that’s been happening forever. I was in classes with a lot of the 1990 players and they were having work done for them back then. I won’t say how I know (wink wink). Heck, I had fraternity brothers “helping” me with my work and an engineering girlfriend (now wife) who got me through Tech.

A lot if things happen in the real world that aren’t above board. I get it. We all see it. But as you mentioned no one is looking until it affects them. I have a kid at GT right now and everyone is taking short cuts not just athletes (I could go on a diatribe about what professors have become and that they aren’t there to teach). It’s just the world of today. As for football, it’s never been above board and never will be. I’m just glad we finally will have a playoff system and can’t wait until it expands again.