Retention rate for Freshmen Students

[Deleted member 2897]

The average SAT score during that period also increased from 1232 to a 1375. Now it is a 1450.

Where I do think they are no longer trying to shaft the student, your comment "the entire place has gotten a lot easier to stay in" basing it purely on the graduation rate is an overly simplified observation and missing the whole picture. It is easier to stay in if you are a lot smarter. It is also easier to stay in when you are given help anytime you want it. But you still have to do the work and earn it. It is not given to you and the actual work load is most definitely NOT easier.

Did you go there? I had many professors where they had a set grade curve they went to. It was like 15% A, 30% B, 35% C, 15% D, 5% F. This is just an illustration. So it didn’t matter if the class was all 1600s - they hit their curve. There has also been a ton of changes to the SAT over the years too. I’m not doing a good job of making my point but hopefully that curve illustration helps. The class could be 1600s or 1200s and it wouldn’t matter.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Did you go there? I had many professors where they had a set grade curve they went to. It was like 15% A, 30% B, 35% C, 15% D, 5% F. This is just an illustration. So it didn’t matter if the class was all 1600s - they hit their curve. There has also been a ton of changes to the SAT over the years too. I’m not doing a good job of making my point but hopefully that curve illustration helps. The class could be 1600s or 1200s and it wouldn’t matter.

Yep, EE89. I had Dr Su and his 69 average in EE3200. I have a feeling we are talking past each other. Back then there were a lot of kids who did not have the core intelligence to just make it naturally. But Tech was not going to let kids get out unless they could cut it in the real world, so there was a lot of wash outs. Teachers had no choice but to make it tough. Today that has changed. The level of intelligence that is being accepted is far superior than it was back then. Also there is a huge support structure that did not exist back then.

My original post was talking about the material covered back then verses comparing the tests and materials that my daughter took just recently. They were comparable. So it is not easier. The only difference I see is there are no more trick questions designed to create a grade distribution curve to make sure the kids who did get out can cut it. That is no longer necessary and does not de-value the quality of the education the kids are getting today.

The grade curve back then was a direct result of the quality of kids getting let in.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yep, EE89. I had Dr Su and his 69 average in EE3200. I have a feeling we are talking past each other. Back then there were a lot of kids who did not have the core intelligence to just make it naturally. But Tech was not going to let kids get out unless they could cut it in the real world, so there was a lot of wash outs. Teachers had no choice but to make it tough. Today that has changed. The level of intelligence that is being accepted is far superior than it was back then. Also there is a huge support structure that did not exist back then.

My original post was talking about the material covered back then verses comparing the tests and materials that my daughter took just recently. They were comparable. So it is not easier. The only difference I see is there are no more trick questions designed to create a grade distribution curve to make sure the kids who did get out can cut it. That is no longer necessary and does not de-value the quality of the education the kids are getting today.

The grade curve back then was a direct result of the quality of kids getting let in.

Yea I am reading what you are saying and they are indeed valid points. Have a good rest of the weekend! I think thI value of my degree is definitely higher now than 20 years ago. These kids are no slouches.

 

[awbuzz]

Here it is in pictures.

Average GPA in the 1980s: 2.5. Look at some of those by major - average GPA in Business: 2.1!

Look at the trend in graduation rates over time. Fully TWICE AS MANY students - DOUBLE! - graduated in 4 years in 2010 compared to 1996. A THIRD more students are graduating in 5 years in 2010 than they were in 1996. Its not just freshman retention rates, the entire place has gotten a lot easier to stay in and graduate from over time.

Sources:
https://www.irp.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/documents/FactBook/FactBook_1984_1985.pdf
http://factbook-dev.gatech.edu/academic-information/graduation-and-retention-rates-tables-5-11-5-12/

For those that want to check some other years, simply change the years toward the end of the url.
Example usrl below will take to the 86-87 Fact Book.
https://www.irp.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/documents/FactBook/FactBook_1986_1987.pdf

I always thought I was in the bottom 10% or so. Heck, come to find out I was in the upper 50%
I.e. a prototypical average GT student regarding grades and SAT scores.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Yea I am reading what you are saying and they are indeed valid points. Have a good rest of the weekend! I think the value of my degree is definitely higher now than 20 years ago. These kids are no slouches.

Agree 100%.
The rain put a damper on my fire-pit cookout last night. So the weekend could have been better.

 

[CuseJacket]

Here it is in pictures.

Average GPA in the 1980s: 2.5. Look at some of those by major - average GPA in Business: 2.1!

Look at the trend in graduation rates over time. Fully TWICE AS MANY students - DOUBLE! - graduated in 4 years in 2010 compared to 1996. A THIRD more students are graduating in 5 years in 2010 than they were in 1996. Its not just freshman retention rates, the entire place has gotten a lot easier to stay in and graduate from over time.

Sources:
https://www.irp.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/documents/FactBook/FactBook_1984_1985.pdf
http://factbook-dev.gatech.edu/academic-information/graduation-and-retention-rates-tables-5-11-5-12/

Re: time to graduation, a significant amount of the burden is relieved from students prior to enrolling at GT.

From Jan 2017 on early action applications http://www.news.gatech.edu/2017/01/14/4380-students-welcomed-tech-early-action
"This year’s applicants were as impressive as in years past. The average academic profile is a 33 ACT, 1468 SAT, 11 college-level courses, and an A average. Nearly 4,200 Georgia students applied in Early Action this year, a 3 percent increase from last year."

I don't have the data in front of me, but having been involved with the local GT alumni network over the last 5 years, I recall seeing a material upward trend in SAT and AP/college courses among the entire incoming freshman class.

Our alumni network also gives out ~7 scholarships to incoming freshman the last several years. Despite a grades + extracurricular + essay weighting system, among those who did not earn scholarships was a 1600 SAT score, another who had legislation passed in GA (not a political decision), and a couple of students who started their own non-profits. Now granted, in this case I only saw the credentials of those who applied for the scholarships which may be the overachievers, but I get the impression from those who have been involved longer that they acknowledge a higher caliber of student.

I do think it's easier to stay in when comparing my experience to those who preceded me. Access to online non-GT websites that showed grade by professor+class, for example, is not something that could have existed much further before my time. ISyE has added "specializations" or "focuses" or stte since my time there, which I presume allows more flexibility. Perhaps professors and courses are easier too but I've not spent enough time to compare. At least I never had to endure drownproofing.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Re: time to graduation, a significant amount of the burden is relieved from students prior to enrolling at GT.

From Jan 2017 on early action applications http://www.news.gatech.edu/2017/01/14/4380-students-welcomed-tech-early-action
"This year’s applicants were as impressive as in years past. The average academic profile is a 33 ACT, 1468 SAT, 11 college-level courses, and an A average. Nearly 4,200 Georgia students applied in Early Action this year, a 3 percent increase from last year."

I don't have the data in front of me, but having been involved with the local GT alumni network over the last 5 years, I recall seeing a material upward trend in SAT and AP/college courses among the entire incoming freshman class.

Our alumni network also gives out ~7 scholarships to incoming freshman the last several years. Despite a grades + extracurricular + essay weighting system, among those who did not earn scholarships was a 1600 SAT score, another who had legislation passed in GA (not a political decision), and a couple of students who started their own non-profits. Now granted, in this case I only saw the credentials of those who applied for the scholarships which may be the overachievers, but I get the impression from those who have been involved longer that they acknowledge a higher caliber of student.

I do think it's easier to stay in when comparing my experience to those who preceded me. Access to online non-GT websites that showed grade by professor+class, for example, is not something that could have existed much further before my time. ISyE has added "specializations" or "focuses" or stte since my time there, which I presume allows more flexibility. Perhaps professors and courses are easier too but I've not spent enough time to compare. At least I never had to endure drownproofing.

Yea I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. That's usually the answer no matter what the topic. My professors didn't care if we were all 1100 SAT people or 1600 SAT people. We got their particular curve. There were tons of AP-taking 1400+ SAT people who failed out in my classes. I had a friend who was 2 years behind me who came in as a Sophomore due to AP credits. And that was over 20 years ago. But I think the volume of those types of people and those types of classes is higher today (our local high school has 30+ AP classes, I have no idea how many mine had back then, but I'd be shocked if it were over 10).

 

[4shotB]

As I have looked at the data on retention and graduation rates, I am curious as to what people who have hired GT grads over the years have to say about the quality of GT grads over the same period of time. One of my Tech buddies is in a high level of management in a national design and consulting firm. He has told me that he and his firm used to primarily recruit at Tech first but now primarily look at Clemson, Auburn and Uga engineering (mechanical, electrical, civil)grads. He has been with this firm roughly 40 years. He says, and I am paraphrasing, that the B & C sector is not appealing anymore to the biggest majority of recent GT grads...they are looking into more 'glamorous" options coming out of school.

 

[Jophish17]

He says, and I am paraphrasing, that the B & C sector is not appealing anymore to the biggest majority of recent GT grads...they are looking into more 'glamorous" options coming out of school.

This may be true - there are certainly companies/industries that are "sexy" to young grads - or it could be that they won't pay enough to attract tech grads. The latter is what I dealt with when I was in a corporate hiring role. We went from hiring IEs to hiring MGT students to eventually looking at other schools. Our budget couldn't keep up.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

8,000 students offered admission:
http://www.news.gatech.edu/2018/03/10/nearly-8000-invited-become-yellow-jackets-year

I don't know what the average length of stay is until someone graduates - 4.5 years? What percentage of those offered typically matriculate? +1000 students via transfer.

When I was at Tech in the mid-90s, we had about 9,000 undergraduates. I think the last I read was that we are currently around 15,000+? What if all 8,000 offered decided to attend - I mean, that would translate into over 30,000 undergraduates on campus within a couple years wouldn't it? LOL.