Recruiting vs Coaching

[gtg936g]

It takes both to be successful, but I am personally more impressed with the ability to coach players up rather than pinning our hopes on the ability to bring in elite talent.

Some of you are probably thinking I am just a CPJ fan (and I am), but Collins actually gets results better than he historically recruits. At least by the ranking services anyway.

He finished second in his side of the division, but hasn’t recruited better than 7th. Watching some old film, I am impressed with how he has developed his players. That is why I am a fan of the hire.

Anyone else thinking along the same lines as me? Is Collins a better coach or recruiter?


https://247sports.com/college/temple/Season/2018-Football/Commits/

 

[Gold1]

It takes both to be successful, but I am personally more impressed with the ability to coach players up rather than pinning our hopes on the ability to bring in elite talent.

Some of you are probably thinking I am just a CPJ fan (and I am), but Collins actually gets results better than he historically recruits. At least by the ranking services anyway.

He finished second in his side of the division, but hasn’t recruited better than 7th. Watching some old film, I am impressed with how he has developed his players. That is why I am a fan of the hire.

Anyone else thinking along the same lines as me? Is Collins a better coach or recruiter?


https://247sports.com/college/temple/Season/2018-Football/Commits/

What are you talking about? Jesus

 

[gtg936g]

What are you talking about? Jesus

Most people think Collins is a great recruiter and more of a CEO instead of a coach. The recruiting rankings of his teams compared with the results he obtained indicate different. He has historically been a better coach than a recruiter. He outperforms the rankings of his recruiting classes.

The hypothesis I am floating is that we have hired a more media savvy version of what we had. A better coach than a recruiter.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Most people think Collins is a great recruiter and more of a CEO instead of a coach. The recruiting rankings of his teams compared with the results he obtained indicate different. He has historically been a better coach than a recruiter. He outperforms the rankings of his recruiting classes.

Most people, myself included, really have no damn idea whether this is a good hire.

I hope it is. I’m not sure how many more 10yr coaches I have in me.

 

[lv20gt]

Most people think Collins is a great recruiter and more of a CEO instead of a coach.

Huh? He was seen as a very good defensive coach, and it's assumed he'll factor heavily into coaching the defense.

 

[gtg936g]

Huh? He was seen as a very good defensive coach, and it's assumed he'll factor heavily into coaching the defense.

Maybe I have misread the opinion of the majority here. This is one reason I created the thread. Do you guys see him as a better recruiter, or a better coach? All the hype I had seen was about his ability to recruit. When I looked at the ranking vs the teams in his division at Temple, the recruiting rankings indicate that he didn’t recruit that well. The results on the field were okay, but the recruiting rankings were kinda meh.

 

[bennyjacket]

How are you guys getting the info on his results vs his recruiting? The guy has moved to a new location every 1-3 years. He is usually coaching someone else's recruits....

am I wrong?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Collins_(American_football)

Look at his coaching career. This is one of those hires where we wont be able to predict the results until its all said and done.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@bennyjacket No, you’re not wrong.

 

[gtg936g]

How are you guys getting the info on his results vs his recruiting? The guy has moved to a new location every 1-3 years. He is usually coaching someone else's recruits....

am I wrong?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Collins_(American_football)

Look at his coaching career. This is one of those hires where we wont be able to predict the results until its all said and done.

I looked at the class ranking he inherited, then the ranking of the next year. The one he would have actively recruited. I expected to see improvement YOY, but there really wasn’t any big changes. In recruiting rankings anyway.

 

[RickStromFan]

The vast majority of fans I'm reading here and elsewhere are in agreement that change was needed regardless of their thoughts re:CPJ.

I'm more optimistic of this hire than, say, a Ken Whisenhunt type of coach but there doesn't appear to be enough data to really have an idea what Collins is capable of yet.

The fact that his 2018 roster has 5 NFL guys on it is nice, as is his overall effect on Temple but like @bennyjacket said, those weren't his recruits. I'm of the opinion that he at least appears to know what to do with talent, given his D rankings at UF so if he can recruit decently for us, things should be looking up.

I'd say this is the most optimistic I've been about Tech football since post Orange Bowl, 2014. God forgive me for bringing that up, given that it led to 2015!

 

[lv20gt]

Maybe I have misread the opinion of the majority here. This is one reason I created the thread. Do you guys see him as a better recruiter, or a better coach? All the hype I had seen was about his ability to recruit. When I looked at the ranking vs the teams in his division at Temple, the recruiting rankings indicate that he didn’t recruit that well. The results on the field were okay, but the recruiting rankings were kinda, meh.

It's not an either or. He's a good defensive minded coach in terms of xs and os and his recruiting is hyped up because of the comparison with Johnson where it was a weakness. A big part of both of those things though is the staff which we really haven't been able to talk about until today.

 

[gtg936g]

It's not an either or. He's a good defensive minded coach in terms of xs and os and his recruiting is hyped up because of the comparison with Johnson where it was a weakness. A big part of both of those things though is the staff which we really haven't been able to talk about until today.

I agree you need to have both. I was just curious if people thought he was a better at recruiting than coaching.

 

[ncjacket79]

It's not an either or. He's a good defensive minded coach in terms of xs and os and his recruiting is hyped up because of the comparison with Johnson where it was a weakness. A big part of both of those things though is the staff which we really haven't been able to talk about until today.

His recruiting rep isn’t based on a comparison with Johnson but on his track record. He was hired away from Tech by Saban because of what they saw of him at Tech and continued to rate as an assistant at both Miss State and FL.

 

[TheTechGuy]

The vast majority of fans I'm reading here and elsewhere are in agreement that change was needed regardless of their thoughts re:CPJ.

I'm more optimistic of this hire than, say, a Ken Whisenhunt type of coach but there doesn't appear to be enough data to really have an idea what Collins is capable of yet.

The fact that his 2018 roster has 5 NFL guys on it is nice, as is his overall effect on Temple but like @bennyjacket said, those weren't his recruits. I'm of the opinion that he at least appears to know what to do with talent, given his D rankings at UF so if he can recruit decently for us, things should be looking up.

I'd say this is the most optimistic I've been about Tech football since post Orange Bowl, 2014. God forgive me for bringing that up, given that it led to 2015!

There is some surface level data to analyze. Per FEI:

At Temple: Collins' average defensive ranking was 27; Temple's two-year average for defensive ranking prior to Collins was 24.

At Florida: Collins' average defensive ranking was 14; Florida's two-year average defensive ranking prior to Collins was 6.

At MSU: Collins' average defensive ranking was 26.75; MSU's two-year average defensive ranking prior to Collins was 29.

Slight downward effect at Temple and Florida, slight upward effect at MSU.

 

[lv20gt]

His recruiting rep isn’t based on a comparison with Johnson but on his track record. He was hired away from Tech by Saban because of what they saw of him at Tech and continued to rate as an assistant at both Miss State and FL.

I meant it's the reason recruiting is talked about so much instead of the "coaching" side.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Most people think Collins is a great recruiter and more of a CEO instead of a coach. The recruiting rankings of his teams compared with the results he obtained indicate different. He has historically been a better coach than a recruiter. He outperforms the rankings of his recruiting classes.

The hypothesis I am floating is that we have hired a more media savvy version of what we had. A better coach than a recruiter.

Be careful. Some of your intended compliments are being taken as criticisms lol.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I agree you need to have both. I was just curious if people thought he was a better at recruiting than coaching.

I kinda hope he is a better coach than recruiter. The first plays into the second anyway. After a decade of bad D I’m very excited to maybe have the next “Tenuta” work his magic shutting other teams down.

If he’s a great XsOs coach he doesn’t have to be the best recruiter ever to improve our recruiting. They both go hand in hand though so I really don’t understand why a couple of posters are getting their undies twisted.

 

[bishopbee]

I'm hoping that this new coaching staff can leverage technologies to be more efficient in teaching football concepts on both sides of the ball. One of the things I found most maddening over the previous 11 years was the post game excuses of "turning guys loose", "we blocked the wrong guy", and "we didn't get lined up right". It shouldn't take 2+ years to learn who to block or tackle, and the proper techniques to use.

Being an Institute of Technology should mean that we are cutting edge in applying A/V, analytics, S/C-nutrition, etc. to train better, develop faster, learn quicker, and execute more consistently. The days of X's and O's on a dry erase board should bee over.

Collins says that being a student athlete at GT should be an advantage; time to use the tech tools to maximize the advantage.

 

[Animal02]

I'm hoping that this new coaching staff can leverage technologies to be more efficient in teaching football concepts on both sides of the ball. One of the things I found most maddening over the previous 11 years was the post game excuses of "turning guys loose", "we blocked the wrong guy", and "we didn't get lined up right". It shouldn't take 2+ years to learn who to block or tackle, and the proper techniques to use.

Being an Institute of Technology should mean that we are cutting edge in applying A/V, analytics, S/C-nutrition, etc. to train better, develop faster, learn quicker, and execute more consistently. The days of X's and O's on a dry erase board should bee over.

Collins says that being a student athlete at GT should be an advantage; time to use the tech tools to maximize the advantage.

Like Groh did with the D?

 

[Madison Grant]

There is some surface level data to analyze. Per FEI:

At Temple: Collins' average defensive ranking was 27; Temple's two-year average for defensive ranking prior to Collins was 24.

At Florida: Collins' average defensive ranking was 14; Florida's two-year average defensive ranking prior to Collins was 6.

At MSU: Collins' average defensive ranking was 26.75; MSU's two-year average defensive ranking prior to Collins was 29.

Slight downward effect at Temple and Florida, slight upward effect at MSU.

Those differences quoted are statistically negligible. Really. What do you reckon is the difference between 24 and 27. Maybe a 1st round NFL pass rusher drafted the year prior? A defense put under pressure by a completely incompetent offense with Treon Harris or Del Rio as QBs?