Recruiting Potential

[Lotta Booze]

Collins thinks he can land top 10 classes.
I'm not sure he understands he has to win games to do so. Good coaching has to come before good recruiting. Otherwise good recruiting and bad losses will look extremely bad, basically showing we wasted their talent.

Excellent point. Someone might need to remind a guy that's been coaching college ball for 24 years that winning games is important. Should be an easy fix then, short conversation. Then they can just start calling the "win the game" plays instead of the ones they are calling now.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Average star rating is probably the worst way to compare recruiting lol

Why? Here's an example: In 2017 Clemson had the number 22 class according to Rivals. They only signed 14 players so they were penalized in the points system. They had 3 5*s, 6 4*s, and 5 3*s in their class. By average stars, they were 4th. Considering everything, that seems a LOT more accurate than 22nd.

 

[JacketOff]

Why? Here's an example: In 2017 Clemson had the number 22 class according to Rivals. They only signed 14 players so they were penalized in the points system. They had 3 5*s, 6 4*s, and 5 3*s in their class. By average stars, they were 4th. Considering everything, that seems a LOT more accurate than 22nd.

Ok, in the very rare instance a team only signs 14 players average star rating might be useful. But teams almost never sign that few players. As I’ve said before, average stars can be skewed heavily by only one player. And there’s not differentiation between a player on the low end of a star and the high end. This is most notable and probably most important when considering 3-stars (which makes up the overwhelming majority of FBS classes). Because a low end 3 star will generally only have interest from a couple of P5 schools, while a high end 3-star will generally be a hot commodity for P5 schools

 

[jacketup]

Why? Here's an example: In 2017 Clemson had the number 22 class according to Rivals. They only signed 14 players so they were penalized in the points system. They had 3 5*s, 6 4*s, and 5 3*s in their class. By average stars, they were 4th. Considering everything, that seems a LOT more accurate than 22nd.

None of the rankings make much sense. What we are suffering through right now is the failure to recruit the big guys--OL and DL. And LBs.

Signing a bunch of 5.6-5.8 skill position players may help your rankings, but it doesn't help you win if you are signing 5.2-5.4 big guys. And enough of them. Half the recruits on O need to be OL, and we haven't been doing that.

 

[boger2337]

Excellent point. Someone might need to remind a guy that's been coaching college ball for 24 years that winning games is important. Should be an easy fix then, short conversation. Then they can just start calling the "win the game" plays instead of the ones they are calling now.

The idea behind my post is he is too preoccupied with recruiting, branding, looks, and juice. The Xs and Os are horrible right now.
If you ask me he is doing TStans job with the branding and not focusing on coaching. There have been 2 teams that flat out have more talent than us. We won 1 game and lost the other by 66. To lose to teams with less talent, let alone give up 37 points, 49, and 48 is ridiculous. Kids look unprepared.

I think he has too much on his plate. Needs to focus 100% on winning now. Recruits will come with wins. A good coach can win with less talent. A bad coach loses with more talent.
1st year HC at BC just won with less talent while running a new offense. .

 

[Lotta Booze]

The idea behind my post is he is too preoccupied with recruiting, branding, looks, and juice. The Xs and Os are horrible right now.
If you ask me he is doing TStans job with the branding and not focusing on coaching. There have been 2 teams that flat out have more talent than us. We won 1 game and lost the other by 66. To lose to teams with less talent, let alone give up 37 points, 49, and 48 is ridiculous. Kids look unprepared.

I think he has too much on his plate. Needs to focus 100% on winning now. Recruits will come with wins. A good coach can win with less talent. A bad coach loses with more talent.
1st year HC at BC just won with less talent while running a new offense. .

I just don't buy this premise that the coaches, including Collins, aren't focused on "winning now". These guys live and breathe football and most people going into that profession are pretty durn competitive. Do you think Thacker isn't focused on winning now? Do you think Coleman isn't focused on winning now? I'd bet that no one knows better than Collins that winning helps your brand more than anything. And Collins isn't editing graphics for the branding, he has someone to do that. He was hired to be the head coach and run the football program and that involves delegating tasks out. I agree the product on the field Saturday, especially on D, was extremely disappointing and needs to be fixed but claiming that the coaches aren't concerned with winning games seems like it's grasping at straws as none of us really know what's going on day to day.

 

[Pointer]

I just don't buy this premise that the coaches, including Collins, aren't focused on "winning now". These guys live and breathe football and most people going into that profession are pretty durn competitive. Do you think Thacker isn't focused on winning now? Do you think Coleman isn't focused on winning now? I'd bet that no one knows better than Collins that winning helps your brand more than anything. And Collins isn't editing graphics for the branding, he has someone to do that. He was hired to be the head coach and run the football program and that involves delegating tasks out. I agree the product on the field Saturday, especially on D, was extremely disappointing and needs to be fixed but claiming that the coaches aren't concerned with winning games seems like it's grasping at straws as none of us really know what's going on day to day.

One could argue ripping the band-aid off instead of a more gradual transition to pro style offense is the same thing as not caring about winning now and more about branding/marketing in hopes of getting "elite" recruits...

 

[4shotB]

One could argue ripping the band-aid off instead of a more gradual transition to pro style offense is the same thing as not caring about winning now and more about branding/marketing in hopes of getting "elite" recruits...

yes, and many have.

 

[RonJohn]

You lost me on this. I’m honestly confused about what your point is. The recruiting services provide an idea about where teams stand in talent. It’s not perfect, once again I’ve already said as much. I think we’re on the same page with a lot of what you’re saying, but you are trying to discredit the services because they don’t provide an actual measurable statistic. While I can see the value in the services because of the ideas they provide the general public about which teams are the most talented. Once again, they’re not perfect but they’re pretty good at what they do. The final AP rankings aren’t accurate just because they put a number next to a team’s name, just like the recruiting services aren’t accurate. But, once again, both polls/rankings give a general idea about where teams stand/perform. I don’t subscribe to any of the sites. I don’t care to. But I can see that the vast majority of the time their ratings and rankings are pretty accurate and provide some value for comparing teams.

If you only use the recruiting rankings as a idea of comparable teams, then I don't have an issue with it. I have seen far too many people that get caught up in decimal places in rankings. I have seen friends/coworkers who are SEC fans getting absolutely crazy about trash talking that their team was ranked two spots above the other person's team so the had "won". Even on this forum, there were people who were excited about being in the top 15 early last year when the reason GT was that high is that they had more recruits than most teams at that point. (At that point the average stars would mean something. One team has 15 commits with a 3.1 star average vs another team with only 3 recruits but a 4.3 star average.) I am not saying you do, I haven't seen your posts enough, but some people treat the rankings as if they were laser timed Olympic races.

 

[boger2337]

I just don't buy this premise that the coaches, including Collins, aren't focused on "winning now". These guys live and breathe football and most people going into that profession are pretty durn competitive. Do you think Thacker isn't focused on winning now? Do you think Coleman isn't focused on winning now? I'd bet that no one knows better than Collins that winning helps your brand more than anything. And Collins isn't editing graphics for the branding, he has someone to do that. He was hired to be the head coach and run the football program and that involves delegating tasks out. I agree the product on the field Saturday, especially on D, was extremely disappointing and needs to be fixed but claiming that the coaches aren't concerned with winning games seems like it's grasping at straws as none of us really know what's going on day to day.

I'm not saying they aren't concerned with winning. I'm saying I think they are too caught up in the rebranding and all the gimmick stuff.

I'd be fine if they shutdown all twitter, social media and everything. Focus on the actual game of football 100%. Explain to recruits they will speak to them in 5 weeks when the season ends. They have to worry about winning right now. If I was a recruit I'd be impressed.

 

[boger2337]

One could argue ripping the band-aid off instead of a more gradual transition to pro style offense is the same thing as not caring about winning now and more about branding/marketing in hopes of getting "elite" recruits...

And I don't know if that is the right approach. Its a balance. We have to win 4 games this year and next year is 7-8 wins MUST. If not then it is extremely sketchy