Recruiting or coaching

stech81

stech81

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Yes I know you have to do both, but is it better to have a bunch of 4 star players out of high school that aren't coached up. Or is it better to have a bunch of 3 stars players that are coached up?

I'm not talking about CGC but in general . Hell look at FSU a bunch of 4 and 5 star players that suck. Now look at WF a bunch of 3 star players that win.

I don't go to any practices so I don't have any idea which coaches we have that coach players up . If CGC feels that he needs to make any changes after this year ( which I don't see happening) the only one that I would not want to lose is Coach Choice , that does not mean there are not others who may be doing a good job.

And I will say that after the game with Pitt CGC did sound more like a coach and less like a cheerleader. And as bad as on OL looked I didn't know how bad our injuries were at that position.
 

GTRambler

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Quality of coaching is always number one.

In addition, a good quality coach also knows how important it is to hire good quality assistant coaches.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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stech81 said:
Yes I know you have to do both, but is it better to have a bunch of 4 star players out of high school that aren't coached up. Or is it better to have a bunch of 3 stars players that are coached up?

I'm not talking about CGC but in general . Hell look at FSU a bunch of 4 and 5 star players that suck. Now look at WF a bunch of 3 star players that win.

I don't go to any practices so I don't have any idea which coaches we have that coach players up . If CGC feels that he needs to make any changes after this year ( which I don't see happening) the only one that I would not want to lose is Coach Choice , that does not mean there are not others who may be doing a good job.

And I will say that after the game with Pitt CGC did sound more like a coach and less like a cheerleader. And as bad as on OL looked I didn't know how bad our injuries were at that position.
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Florida went one better with Ron Zook and got a boatload of 4 and 5 stars. Alas, the bipolar Gators would beat UGA and lose to Mississippi State. They did have the distinction of having a coach whose post game press conferences were the stuff of legend. He even invented a new word once. "Correctable" (sic) Blocked punt? It was "correctable". Receiver going the wrong way or dropping passes? It was "correctable" Lousy game planning and subpar coaching? That too was "correctable" by buying out his contract and replace him with Urban.
 
bobongo

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jgtengineer said:
Cincy is a coached up approach as well.
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Cincy, Wake - low recruiting but high-end results. Then there's Tennessee, Texas, and FSU. High end recruiting with little to show for it.
But aren't these the outliers? I think generally speaking, it takes both. But I'll take coaching over recruiting, if I have to choose.
Losing because of bad players is a lot less frustrating than losing over bad coaching.
 
Techster

Techster

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Treb1982 said:
70/30 coaching... I think you get to a certain point and no matter how good you coach your team up if the other team is well coached and have better depth and better or equal talent its hard to win. What makes Bama almost impossible to beat. They have best players and outstanding coaching.
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CPJ is a good example of this. When he had the talent, he could beat the best teams on our schedule. Even when he didn't have the best talent, he was winning against teams that out recruited us, but the gap against the higher level teams (UGA, Clemson) showed.

Personally, I take the coach that develop talent and can at least recruit in the middle of the conference pack over a guy that can recruit in the upper levels of conference but can't coach his way out of a wet bag.
 

VRTechFan

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stech81 said:
Yes I know you have to do both, but is it better to have a bunch of 4 star players out of high school that aren't coached up. Or is it better to have a bunch of 3 stars players that are coached up?

I'm not talking about CGC but in general . Hell look at FSU a bunch of 4 and 5 star players that suck. Now look at WF a bunch of 3 star players that win.

I don't go to any practices so I don't have any idea which coaches we have that coach players up . If CGC feels that he needs to make any changes after this year ( which I don't see happening) the only one that I would not want to lose is Coach Choice , that does not mean there are not others who may be doing a good job.

And I will say that after the game with Pitt CGC did sound more like a coach and less like a cheerleader. And as bad as on OL looked I didn't know how bad our injuries were at that position.
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May have answered your own question. Being coached up trump's all the Jimmy's and Joe's that you could have on the team. Not to bring up the past, but that's why every CPJ led team we fans knew there was a chance of a win.
 
GTLorenzo

GTLorenzo

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Good coaching can take lesser talent and beat better talent that isn't well coached. Collins can take better talent and lose to I-AA and G5 teams.

See what I did there..... ;)
 

alagold

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JacketOff said:
I like how Wake Forest is getting all this attention and love for having “great coaching” after 7 years of the same coaching staff being anywhere from mediocre to terrible.
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I'd like to see someone else do better in what they have to sell/recruit to. Its not like it is a glamour place to say the least.
 
AlabamaBuzz

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Well, I always said about PJ if he had talent within about 20-30% of other teams, those other teams better be very well-coached, disciplined teams, or they would be in for a painful game experience. (one item of clarity though - if your D line or another major position group falls below this difference, you might still be in trouble, no matter the overall difference)

But, when the talent level is over 30% greater, there is not a lot a coach can do unless the coaches on the other side of the field are complete dufusses who have lost their team completely.

Coaching matters, game prep matters, game-time decisions and adjustments matter. They always will. BUT, you do have to have some talent. Another part of being a great coach is seeing potential talent that others might miss, but this is getting harder and harder to do with our connected world. Just not that many sleepers out there anymore.
 
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Richard7125

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stech81 said:
Yes I know you have to do both, but is it better to have a bunch of 4 star players out of high school that aren't coached up. Or is it better to have a bunch of 3 stars players that are coached up?

I'm not talking about CGC but in general . Hell look at FSU a bunch of 4 and 5 star players that suck. Now look at WF a bunch of 3 star players that win.

I don't go to any practices so I don't have any idea which coaches we have that coach players up . If CGC feels that he needs to make any changes after this year ( which I don't see happening) the only one that I would not want to lose is Coach Choice , that does not mean there are not others who may be doing a good job.

And I will say that after the game with Pitt CGC did sound more like a coach and less like a cheerleader. And as bad as on OL looked I didn't know how bad our injuries were at that position.
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You need both. A more appropriate question might be in what proportion (Good Coaching to Recruiting) is most advantageous: 40/60, 50/50, 60/40, etc. I would say FSU has been in the 10/90 ratio lately.
 

JacketOff

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alagold said:
I'd like to see someone else do better in what they have to sell/recruit to. Its not like it is a glamour place to say the least.
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I mean, he’s on par or even a little bit behind what Jim Grobe did there. He also has the added benefit of playing the worst stretch of Florida State football since the 70s. Along with playing a much easier non-conference slate than what Grobe did in the 2000s.

Wake is having a good year this year, but so far they’ve played the 108th most difficult schedule in the country. Their next 3 games are against Syracuse, Army, and Duke. There’s a good chance they could be 8-0 with their best win coming against a .500 Louisville or Virginia team. It’s not like they’ve been knocking on the door of being great and are finally breaking out this year. For the past 3-4 years they’ve been average and this year are having all the cards fall their way. They’ve got an experienced team, in year 8 of their coaches’ tenure, and are playing a very weak schedule. Props to them for not blowing an opportunity (yet), but let’s not act like this has been on the horizon at all.
 
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