Recruiting of non HS players

[RamblinRed]

This is a topic that has come up in a couple of threads so I decided to try to make a separate thread for easier discussion.
The use of non HS players has expanded rapidly in college basketball, last season over 700 players transferred from Div 1 schools - that is an avg of 2 per school). You also have JUCO players (which are not recruited as heavily as they were 15 years ago as the talent pool simply isn't as deep).
While I would argue you shouldn't base your recruiting on transfers/grad students/JUCOS - unless you are in a talent poor area like Iowa St is for example. They can be very helpful in plugging holes. For me, in particualar you are looking for either grad students that supply a specific skill that you think you need on the next years team (shooter, rebounder, defender, etc) or you are looking for transfers that have at least 2 years of eligibility remaining. That means at any time 2-3 of your schollies may be used on these players.

Currently in the ACC 13 out of the 15 schools have transfers/grads/JUCOs on their roster - only UNC and ND are without one this year. Here is the list. (GS - grad, TR - transfer, JC - JUCO). if the player is sitting out this year due to transfer or other rules, the year listed is what year they will be next season.

BC - Dimitri Batten (GS - Old Dominion) - starter, Aaron Brown (GS - Ole Miss) - starter, Alex Dragecevich (TR-ND-SR backup)

Clemson - Avry Holmes (TR - San Francisco-JR) - sitting out expected to be starter (top guard) next season, Demarcus Harrison (TR-BYU-SR - part time starter)

Duke - Sean Obi (TR-Rice-SO) - sitting out, likely starter

FSU - Dayshawn Watkins (JC-Holmes CC - JR) - reserve, Kiel Turpin (JC-Lincoln-SR) - role player, Mike Saxton (JC-Tallahassee CC-JR) - reserve

GT - Demarco Cox (GS-Ole Miss-SR) - starter, Charles Mitchell (TR-MD-JR) - part time starter, Nick Jacobs (TR-AL-SR) - sitting out, starter next season

Louisville - Chris Jones (JC-NW FL State CC-SR) starter, just kicked of team

Miami - Angel Rodriguez (TR-K ST-JR) - starter, Sheldon McClellan (TR-TX-JR) - starter, Ivan Cruz Uceda (JC-Harcum College - JR) - backup, Kimani Murphy (TR-Ok ST-JR) - likely starter

NCSU - Trevor Lacey (TR-AL-JR) - starter, Ralston Turner (TR-LSU-SR) - starter, Des Lee (JC-NM JC-SR) - backup, Terry Henderson (TR-WVU-SO) - sitting out, likely starter

Pitt - Tyrone Haughton (JC-Iowa Western CC-JR) reserve, Sheldon Jeter (TR-Vandy-SO) part time starter,
Derrick Randall (TR-Rutgers-SR) - backup, Joepsh Uchebo (TR-Chipola CC-JR) - backup

Syracuse - Mike Gbinije (TR-Duke-JR) - starter, Carter Sanderson (GS-Lipscomb) - reserve

UVA - Anton Gill (TR-SC-JR) - starter, Darius Thompson (TR-TN-SO)-backup/starter

VT - Adam Smith (TR-UNCW-JR)-starter, Shane Henry (JC-GA Perimeter-JR) -part time starter,
Seth Allen (TR-MD-JR)-sitting out likely starter, Zack LeDay(TR-SouthFL-JR) - sitting out, likely backup/starter

Wake - Darious Leonard (GS-Campbell)-part time starter, Gil McGregory(TR-Newberry-SO)-reserve

So you can see that's 34 players on rosters right now from 13 schools.
16 of them starter or part time starters.
17 of them likely starter or part time starters next season (that number is likely to rise a little when new GS are signed in the offseason).

So in general you should expect that you will have 1-2 TR/GS/JC (mostly the first 2) as part of your likely 8-9 man rotation. Obviously not the basis for you program, but not irrelevant either. The very best teams don't need as many frankly because their recruiting tends to be strong enough that they don't need them or just take very specific ones to fill a need. The middle of the pack teams tend to rely on them a little more. NCST and Miami both have multiple starters who are transfers (and leading scorers) and will again next season and Pitt and Syracuse have 1 each playing a big role.

 

[awbuzz]

Don't forget Robert Sampson. TR from ECU.

 

[awbuzz]

Meant to add that is a great write up RR.

 

[RamblinRed]

Darn, how could I forget Robert - my bad.
so basically add one more to GT's list. One more to the part time starter/starter list for this year.

This is a trend that I don't think is going away. Coaches have started adjusting to it. Alot of coaches if they miss on their primary recruit(s) in the fall will hold those scholarships rather than giving them out to the plan B guys in the fall to see who becomes available as a TR/GS in the spring.

The transfers in particular are seen in a different light now. The feeling among alot of coaches is you get a guy that has already gone through the college learning curve, who can give you a solid 2 yrs (occasionally 3) production and at worst you have to wait one year for it, sometimes you get it immediately (like Mitchell). Meanwhile if you take your plan B guy, you likely are looking at waiting at least 2 years before they make a significant impact. So from a coaching standpoint they see it as getting roughly the same number of years of impact and getting it more quickly.

College kids who transfer also are seen as having more motivation to make it work for if they have to sit out, they use their redshirt, so another move costs then a year of eligibility.

 

[kg01]

Didn't we recruit Avry Holmes way back in the day?

 

[New Old Guy]

Darn, how could I forget Robert - my bad.
so basically add one more to GT's list. One more to the part time starter/starter list for this year.

This is a trend that I don't think is going away. Coaches have started adjusting to it. Alot of coaches if they miss on their primary recruit(s) in the fall will hold those scholarships rather than giving them out to the plan B guys in the fall to see who becomes available as a TR/GS in the spring.

The transfers in particular are seen in a different light now. The feeling among alot of coaches is you get a guy that has already gone through the college learning curve, who can give you a solid 2 yrs (occasionally 3) production and at worst you have to wait one year for it, sometimes you get it immediately (like Mitchell). Meanwhile if you take your plan B guy, you likely are looking at waiting at least 2 years before they make a significant impact. So from a coaching standpoint they see it as getting roughly the same number of years of impact and getting it more quickly.

College kids who transfer also are seen as having more motivation to make it work for if they have to sit out, they use their redshirt, so another move costs then a year of eligibility.

I think you also left off Josh Heath from the Tech roster.

 

[RamblinRed]

darn it twice.

 

[vamosjackets]

Honestly, this makes it harder for me to be a college basketball fan. Admittedly, I was not a huge bball fan in the first place, but I did enjoy following GT basketball and would try to lightly follow the overall college basketball season. I was a GT senior in '04, so that made me take a much bigger interest for a while.

Now, I am completely apathetic to college basketball and barely follow GT basketball at all. As a fan, you don't get to build any sort of "relationship" with the team/players. Following recruiting doesn't matter because a significant number of those guys are going to either be 1-and-done, transfer, or be non-contributors. I've found for the past few seasons, I can't even keep up with who our guys are or where they came from. The statement becomes stronger when talking about following college basketball in general. Maybe I'm not the norm - I hope so because I want to sport to remain a strong one. But, it seems to me it would be so much better from a competition perspective for it to be more like football (or more like bball used to be) where you knew all of the players for your team and most of the players for the other teams from year to year. The "connection" aspect seems to be severely lacking in the sport.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Honestly, this makes it harder for me to be a college basketball fan. Admittedly, I was not a huge bball fan in the first place, but I did enjoy following GT basketball and would try to lightly follow the overall college basketball season. I was a GT senior in '04, so that made me take a much bigger interest for a while.

Now, I am completely apathetic to college basketball and barely follow GT basketball at all. As a fan, you don't get to build any sort of "relationship" with the team/players. Following recruiting doesn't matter because a significant number of those guys are going to either be 1-and-done, transfer, or be non-contributors. I've found for the past few seasons, I can't even keep up with who our guys are or where they came from. The statement becomes stronger when talking about following college basketball in general. Maybe I'm not the norm - I hope so because I want to sport to remain a strong one. But, it seems to me it would be so much better from a competition perspective for it to be more like football (or more like bball used to be) where you knew all of the players for your team and most of the players for the other teams from year to year. The "connection" aspect seems to be severely lacking in the sport.

There needs to be a rule like in baseball. The NBA needs a minor league, and the kids that don't go directly to pro-ball have to stay 3 yrs.

 

[vamosjackets]

There needs to be a rule like in baseball. The NBA needs a minor league, and the kids that don't go directly to pro-ball have to stay 3 yrs.

That would definitely help. But, it wouldn't address the big increase in transfers, would it?

 

[RamblinRed]

There has been talk of them going to a hard transfer rule again (basically no exceptions for immediate eligibility). That would help a little, but there will still be alot of transfers.

 

[orientalnc]

I think that will not work without 5-6 grants. The NCAA will be back in Federal court.

 

[Ramblingon]

Transfer athletes is the new face of BB. And I hope we keep it up by going out and getting the best fifth year shooting guard (or whatever works) for next season. That addition, the addition of Jacobs and overall maturity, coupled with a new coach and we at least have a shot at the tourney.