Recruiting Bias...247

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
507
This is why when GT fans like to pull up Gailey's recruiting rankings and compare it to Johnson's as a defense for CPJ's recruiting, it's kinda misleading. GT recruiting interest didn't take off really until around the mid 2000's, so there really wasn't a big fanbase to scream about a kid's rating. Hence why Gailey had a bunch of NR recruits early. NR recruits are pretty much a rarity these days with high major schools. Most high major commits pretty much get moved from NR to 2 stars after they commit to those schools.

http://georgiatech.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=9&c=8&yr=2002
http://georgiatech.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=9&c=8&yr=2003

What Gailey had was a few classes (3 I believe) that ranked in the top 20 AFTER the recruits careers were over.

BTW...that 2003 class ended up being a top 10 class re-ranked.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/615853.html

Ok I've been following gt atheltics for many years now and why do I not remember "I-perfection" Harris?? With such a ridiculous name I don't know how I don't remember him playing, I thought it was a joke seeing it at first but nope, he was on the roster when I checked. If we got someone like that now we would catch so much grief on social media I could already see it now...
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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12,691
Ok I've been following gt atheltics for many years now and why do I not remember "I-perfection" Harris?? With such a ridiculous name I don't know how I don't remember him playing, I thought it was a joke seeing it at first but nope, he was on the roster when I checked. If we got someone like that now we would catch so much grief on social media I could already see it now...

I actually remember I-Perfection...jeez, I'm getting old!
 

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
507
He was a DB out of NYC, if I remember correctly. He never saw the field and transferred or quit.

BTW, there were no quotes. That was his real name.

Oh I know that was his real name, I put quotes because I wanted to emphasize the ridiculousness of the name.... "Tackle made by I-perfection Harris" modest much?
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Well, G.T recruits also get the same bump. Lots of commits the past few years have gone from 2 star to 3 star or even NR to 3 star after committing to us.
Jake Whitely is one off top I watched get this bump after commitng
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,035
Well, GT recruits also get the same bump. Lots of commits the past few years have gone from 2 star to 3 star or even NR to 3 star after committing to us.

The NR to 3 star isn't that outrageous if I understand how the service works. Doesn't NR (not rated I assume) mean they haven't evaluated the kid officially yet. So the kid commits to a school, rivals realizes they need to rate the kid, they watch his film and give him a rating. Makes sense to me.

I think they also give 2 stars by default to someone they haven't rated so that could account for a lot of the bumps. I don't know any of this for sure just some observations.

Jake Whitely is one off top I watched get this bump after commitng

Well he's still a 2 star and the "bump" you refer to is what I'm talking about. He wasn't evaluated when he committed. It looks like a bump but is actually his inital evaluation from a blank slate.
 

Minawreck

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
623
WE need to stop blaming the coaches and look in the mirror and start blaming our cheap selves for GT recruiting woes.

There's actuallt a lot more truth to this sarcastic post than you know. We as a fanbase do not support the program like other fanbases. We also do not have shady boosters like other programs. We don't fill our small stadium like other programs. We cannot afford to keep good assistants like other programs. A lot of recruiting is $$$ and $$$ comes from donors and fans.
 

techman78

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
494
Location
Toccoa, Ga
The NR to 3 star isn't that outrageous if I understand how the service works. Doesn't NR (not rated I assume) mean they haven't evaluated the kid officially yet. So the kid commits to a school, rivals realizes they need to rate the kid, they watch his film and give him a rating. Makes sense to me.

I think they also give 2 stars by default to someone they haven't rated so that could account for a lot of the bumps. I don't know any of this for sure just some observations.



Well he's still a 2 star and the "bump" you refer to is what I'm talking about. He wasn't evaluated when he committed. It looks like a bump but is actually his inital evaluation from a blank slate.
From what I have heard and understand through rivals at least is if a kid doesnt do a rivals camp or other multiple camps they cant rate them so whenever a kid commits they are givin a default 2* then after theyre season is over their video is reviewed then they are assigned accordingly.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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12,691
The NR to 3 star isn't that outrageous if I understand how the service works. Doesn't NR (not rated I assume) mean they haven't evaluated the kid officially yet. So the kid commits to a school, rivals realizes they need to rate the kid, they watch his film and give him a rating. Makes sense to me.

I think they also give 2 stars by default to someone they haven't rated so that could account for a lot of the bumps. I don't know any of this for sure just some observations.


I think it works both ways. Say a 3 star is bumped up because they just committed to a "factory" school...well, how do you know the evaluators didn't go back and look at the tape precisely BECAUSE factories schools are offering? Isn't it an exercise by our fanbase to defend recruits by citing what FBS level schools our recruits are offerred? Part of ranking recruits is based on demand...if recruits are in high demad by top tier schools, then maybe they should be rated higher. That happened with Vad Lee after his senior season and a bunch of schools started offering him.

I don't think it's any more silly to bump a 3 star to a 4 because he commited to us, then it is when a 2 star recruits commits to us then they get bumped to a 3. If our recruit never committed to us, he most likely remains a 2 star. It's because he commits to us, is certain instances, that he gets "re-evaluated" (ahem) and gets bumped up. No different than what other recruits that commit to factories are getting.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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Part of ranking recruits is based on demand...if recruits are in high demad by top tier schools, then maybe they should be rated higher.
This is bs and underscores the lack of faith they put in their own evaluations. "Hey guys, Bammer likes this kid, maybe we don't know squat... let's bump his arse..."

If the services don't trust their own evals, why should we?
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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12,691
This is bs and underscores the lack of faith they put in their own evaluations. "Hey guys, Bammer likes this kid, maybe we don't know squat... let's bump his arse..."

If the services don't trust their own evals, why should we?

Why is it bumpkis that that a kids demand factors into ratings? Last I checked, 'Bama and UGA and factory schools of that ilk were spitting out high round draft picks and guys that were all conference and all american. If they're wanted by schools with a track record of putting out high performers, people would be stupid to ignore that.

If we can't trust our own evaluations, then why is it GT fans are always listing other schools' offers to defend a commit?

It's like when you go car shopping. Do you just show up on the lot and just point to a car? No, you look at reviews, ask mechanics what they think, and ask friends about them. That's scouting and using resources. Why do you think Chevys, Fords, Toyotas, Hondas, Volkswagon (factory schools) dominate the car market over other carmakers like Kia? It's because people know those carmakers reputation for putting out quality products (to an extent) over other carmakers. Of course you would factor everything, especially demand, into your decision making on rating cars. It's the same with restaurants, going to a drycleaners, going to a mechanic...and with recruits.
 

Blumpkin Souffle

Bidly Biddington III
Messages
1,367
All you guys need to know is that there were 46 players in the Super Bowl that were 2 star or unranked coming out of high school. Most of these rankings are a joke.

My only knock against this argument is there are way more unranked and 2 star players than 3-5 star players. An interesting statistic would be the percentage of each ranking that makes it to the pros.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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12,691
My only knock against this argument is there are way more unranked and 2 star players than 3-5 star players. An interesting statistic would be the percentage of each ranking that makes it to the pros.

They've done that. It's out there, someone just has to go digging.

From what I remember, it's pretty much what you said. Relatively speaking, a higher percentage of the upper tier recruits make it compared to the lower rated recruits.
 
Messages
2,077
Well, GT recruits also get the same bump. Lots of commits the past few years have gone from 2 star to 3 star or even NR to 3 star after committing to us.
Isn't this a worn out topic? Yes, there is bias, yes, the recruiting industry is many things other than player evaluation and ranking. That is why it is so very important that our staff be EXPERT in recognizing talent, spend their time productively on going after kids that we can sign and get into school, and then develop and improve those kids once we have them on campus. Unfortunately the present staff has shown they are not up to the task.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Why is it bumpkis that that a kids demand factors into ratings? Last I checked, 'Bama and UGA and factory schools of that ilk were spitting out high round draft picks and guys that were all conference and all american. If they're wanted by schools with a track record of putting out high performers, people would be stupid to ignore that.

If we can't trust our own evaluations, then why is it GT fans are always listing other schools' offers to defend a commit?

It's like when you go car shopping. Do you just show up on the lot and just point to a car? No, you look at reviews, ask mechanics what they think, and ask friends about them. That's scouting and using resources. Why do you think Chevys, Fords, Toyotas, Hondas, Volkswagon (factory schools) dominate the car market over other carmakers like Kia? It's because people know those carmakers reputation for putting out quality products (to an extent) over other carmakers. Of course you would factor everything, especially demand, into your decision making on rating cars. It's the same with restaurants, going to a drycleaners, going to a mechanic...and with recruits.
It's fine for you and me to use all the resources available to make our minds up on kids, but the services are one of the so-called "experts" in the field. They are not supposed to do it. Period. Your analogy just fell to pieces.

Actually, the services probably do employ some competent evaluators. They probably get it right, for the most part, with the upper 10 to 15% of recruits. It's the other 85% where it's a total crap shoot. Also, they evaluate the quality of kid now, not how they project in the future. They also don't project them for specific styles of play, like ours, for instance.

Our coaches evaluate based on current factors, but also on how they project 3+ years down the road. That's why you see coaches excited about lanky guys with "big frames" with room to grow. Our coaches also evaluate based on how they fit the specific roles they'll play at GT. Justin Thomas is a huge example of this. He did not fit qb at Bama but he does fit qb here. If everybody in the nation ran our offense, he would have been a 5* qb prospect and we never would have sniffed him.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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13,671
Isn't this a worn out topic? Yes, there is bias, yes, the recruiting industry is many things other than player evaluation and ranking. That is why it is so very important that our staff be EXPERT in recognizing talent, spend their time productively on going after kids that we can sign and get into school, and then develop and improve those kids once we have them on campus. Unfortunately the present staff has shown they are not up to the task.
This may be true, but it's not as all-or-nothing as you suggest. They could be on the cusp of "being up the task" or they could be a country mile from it. I think it's closer to the former than the latter.

I happen to think the staff is evolving. CPJ has certainly made plenty of changes during his tenure.
 
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