RB Participation

bke1984

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I’m curious why no one else has brought this up. But I don’t think I’d beout on a limb in saying that our best two offensive players are Jahmyr Gibbs and Jordan Mason. But how many times were those two on the field at the same time on Saturday?

I don’t recall it happening one time. Seems like you would have some serious options with those two out there at once - and even more so, I think it’s crazy to keep Gibbs off the field more than 2-3 series a game due to his explosiveness.

Did I just miss it, or am I correct that they weren’t out there together?
 
ChristoGT

ChristoGT

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It just doesn't seem to be a lineup that P-nut can do/figure out a way to use it.
I think it would be great. Gibbs definitely has the speed and can get past defenders. Mason has always had that elusive/second effort nature that can't be taught. Both are monsters . . . and yes they could be bigger monsters if in tandem. One there for the hand-off/draw and the other slides out into the flat for a short pass or even both sliding out on either side.

Could be great, could be havoc for the other team, even if only a few times per game. But not expecting it to happen.

I will say having both relatively fresh is not all bad. I'll take 100 yards rushing from each per game. We just need the rest of the offense to provide good support.
 
Augusta_Jacket

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bke1984 said:
I’m curious why no one else has brought this up. But I don’t think I’d beout on a limb in saying that our best two offensive players are Jahmyr Gibbs and Jordan Mason. But how many times were those two on the field at the same time on Saturday?

I don’t recall it happening one time. Seems like you would have some serious options with those two out there at once - and even more so, I think it’s crazy to keep Gibbs off the field more than 2-3 series a game due to his explosiveness.

Did I just miss it, or am I correct that they weren’t out there together?
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Well, they were both out there for kickoffs...

Seriously though, I don't think we had any two back sets on Saturday.
 

Bonaire41

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If they don’t figure out something for smith and Griffen they both are going to transfer. I would make it a mission too give them a all 4 10 carries apiece every game. Would also burn more clock and would help to defense stay off the field. That’s the only shot at not getting destroyed by Clemson and Georgia is 3 yards and a cloud of dust. snap the ball at the 1 second mark every play and run run run run and run some more and only pass when you half two and burn burn burn the clock
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

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Bonaire41 said:
If they don’t figure out something for smith and Griffen they both are going to transfer. I would make it a mission too give them a all 4 10 carries apiece every game. Would also burn more clock and would help to defense stay off the field. That’s the only shot at not getting destroyed by Clemson and Georgia is 3 yards and a cloud of dust. snap the ball at the 1 second mark every play and run run run run and run some more and only pass when you half two and burn burn burn the clock
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You're going to take carries away from Gibbs and Mason to keep Smith and Griffin from transferring?
 

Bonaire41

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Jp will be gone next year so we don’t need to lose the other 2 also. If we don’t turn things around quick we may lose all of them next year. I don’t see Gibbs sticking around if we don’t turn things around with the new transfer rules now
 
Techster

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We have a 4 star RB committed to this class, and another 4 star RB committed in the 2023 class. I don't worry about RBs with Tashard Choice recruiting.

I agree with @Bonaire41 . I said it in another thread...if this season goes the wrong way, I suspect Gibbs will leave and try to play for a contender his last year in college. Schools will be lining up for his services if that's the case. He was visibly frustrated during the NIU game. I don't think he'll take all 4 years and is gone to the NFL when he's eligible.

Smith definitely deserves more carries. He's our most explosive runner, and he's also good in the passing game. It seems like he's a big play waiting to happen.

Griffin is a very capable RB, but I think he's the odd man out right now due to all the talent at RB.
 

Tundeballer

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Two rb sets for us don't make a lot of sense for us imo. Makes running the ball harder by bringing more bodies into the box if you have two rbs in the backfield. Rather have an extra lineman who can block. We could put Gibbs more in the slot, but I'm not sure he's a better receiver than the guys we have in the slot already. A wildcat set would be interesting but Simms/Yates are good enough runners that we don't really need to do that.
 

bke1984

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Tundeballer said:
Two rb sets for us don't make a lot of sense for us imo. Makes running the ball harder by bringing more bodies into the box if you have two rbs in the backfield. Rather have an extra lineman who can block. We could put Gibbs more in the slot, but I'm not sure he's a better receiver than the guys we have in the slot already. A wildcat set would be interesting but Simms/Yates are good enough runners that we don't really need to do that.
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That’s not a very creative opinion. Gibbs is the most explosive player on the team. Use him like Kamara. If Mason is in the backfield and you don’t want to run two backs to spread em out then put him in the slot. Leaving one of those two on the sideline every series is criminal coaching, and akin to not throwing to Calvin because (insert poor excuse).

In college your best players should be on the field as much as possible. Remember we are now a player oriented system…
 
Techster

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Tundeballer said:
Two rb sets for us don't make a lot of sense for us imo. Makes running the ball harder by bringing more bodies into the box if you have two rbs in the backfield. Rather have an extra lineman who can block. We could put Gibbs more in the slot, but I'm not sure he's a better receiver than the guys we have in the slot already. A wildcat set would be interesting but Simms/Yates are good enough runners that we don't really need to do that.
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Bingo.

That's the thing, you put two RBs in, you have to take someone else out. Who do you take out? Does Mason become a glorified fullback and block for Gibbs? You can do that with a TE motion to an Hback or bring in an extra linemen. Do you split Gibbs out and make him a slot? Well, if you do that, is he a better slot than McGowin or McCollum? Make Gibbs the wildcat...OK, but now they're not the throwing threat Sims or Yates is, so you load up the box and make it hard to run the ball.

You want to put your best players on the field, but it also has to make sense.
 

takethepoints

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It depends on who's your QB. With Sims who, despite his other skills, can't run the option with any finesse, it makes sense to have one RB (though putting Gibbs out at the flank occasionally would probably work). With Yates, who actually can make an option play work, the solution is simple: put in a selection of classic veer plays with Mason as FB and Gibbs as RB. Then let Yates go all Warren Moon on the opposition. This would be a lot of fun to watch, but it wouldn't be an "NFL look". Bad for recruiting, you know.

Oh, and Gibbs would have to learn to block …
 

bke1984

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Techster said:
Bingo.

That's the thing, you put two RBs in, you have to take someone else out. Who do you take out? Does Mason become a glorified fullback and block for Gibbs? You can do that with a TE motion to an Hback or bring in an extra linemen. Do you split Gibbs out and make him a slot? Well, if you do that, is he a better slot than McGowin or McCollum? Make Gibbs the wildcat...OK, but now they're not the throwing threat Sims or Yates is, so you load up the box and make it hard to run the ball.

You want to put your best players on the field, but it also has to make sense.
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Pick a receiver and take em out. And yes, he’s better than whoever you pick.
 
Techster

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bke1984 said:
That’s not a very creative opinion. Gibbs is the most explosive player on the team. Use him like Kamara. If Mason is in the backfield and you don’t want to run two backs to spread em out then put him in the slot. Leaving one of those two on the sideline every series is criminal coaching, and akin to not throwing to Calvin because (insert poor excuse).

In college your best players should be on the field as much as possible. Remember we are now a player oriented system…
Click to expand...

Kamara is rarely in the backfield with another RB...and when he is, the other RB is a blocking fullback.

Do you know why Kamara gets a LOT of receiving yardage? It's because he's coming from the backfield matched up against a LB or DE. Rarely is he in the slot matched up against a DB.



bke1984 said:
Pick a receiver and take em out. And yes, he’s better than whoever you pick.
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LOL...no he's not. As good as Gibbs is, playing in the slot or out wide is a different skillset. Maybe some of our 3rd string slots or WRs, but not our starters. There's a reason why we don't line him up in the slot or out wide often...it's because it requires a different skillset that he doesn't yet possess.

Maybe you put Mason and Gibbs in the backfield, then motion Gibbs to the slot. That could work, but how many times do you think that will work before the DC brings a safety down? Now you've clogged the LOS with another defender if you want to run the ball, and you make it harder for Gibbs to get open with a DB over the top of him. The best scenario in that situation is the DB over the top of Gibbs leaves the defensive backfield which creates a bigger zone for our receivers to work in the secondary.

I'm not saying it's not possible to be productive with Mason and Gibbs on the field at the same time, but you're sacrificing a lot of time working on something that may or may not work 2-3 times a game and for how much yardage? There are better ways without "tipping your hand" with a Mason and Gibbs personnel package that doesn't take away from practice reps.
 

bke1984

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My last post on the subject. A little dated, but still supports my point. He’s in the slot quite a bit. Gibbs should be too.

The skill set argument is not creative. Put him in the slot. If they line a DB over him, motion him to the backfield and lead block with Mason. If they put a LB on him, good luck.

The point is he’s the best player. Get creative to get him the ball. Something we should have done better with Calvin - I don’t want to see us underutilize someone again.


1631071473217.png
 
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Techster

Techster

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bke1984 said:
My last post on the subject. A little dated, but still supports my point. He’s in the slot quite a bit. Gibbs should be too.

The skill set argument is not creative. Put him in the slot. If they line a DB over him, motion him to the backfield and lead block with Mason. If they put a LB on him, good luck.

The point is he’s the best player. Get creative to get him the ball. Something we should have done better with Calvin - I don’t want to see us underutilize someone again.


View attachment 11128
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That graphic doesn't mean what you think it means. It just means Kamara LINED UP in the slot 18.9%...what was his production from the slot? The other 81%+? In the backfield. Just because a player lined up in the slot doesn't mean it was productive snaps. And that's the point...production. This is from the season your graphic is taken from:



Where is Kamara doing most of his damage from? The backfield. Guess what...we're already utilizing Gibbs like that and it's going very well.

What's the point of Mason in the backfield if he's just going to be a glorified blocker for Gibbs? Isn't the point of having our two best RBs on the field to make them useful and productive? Only one RB can touch the ball. Is Mason even a good blocker...or is he better blocker than a pulling guard or TE? Having Mason and Gibbs on the field at the same time has to make sense for what we're doing with ALL 11 players, not just Gibbs.

Also, your Kamara example is a false equivalence. You're equating an NFL level RB who played with a future NFL hall of fame QB...and one of the best offensive minds in the history of the game. Gibbs is not in that situation, nor does Gibbs possess Kamara's tools.

If anything, it's Gibbs and Smith that need to be on the field at the same time over Gibbs/Mason. That actually makes more sense given Smith's multiple skillset.
 
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