Raw Data on Recruiting

[Augusta_Jacket]

I have a different view of it Augusta. I've been a Tech fan for a while and have closely followed recruiting since the late 90's. During Gailey's first few years his recruiting classes were ripped apart by Tech fans who had become used to competing with the big boys for our players. As time went on however and he developed his staff and connections in the south east his recruiting took a sharp turn for the better and in 07 and 08. My argument would be that he figured out how to recruit to GT and in fact his 07 and what was leading to his 08 class were more in line with what we should expect with recruiting as they correlate better with where O'Leary left the program. Comparing Johnson to the first 5 years of Gailey and drawing the conclusion that he faired similarly so this must be GT's ceiling or expectation in regards to recruiting is simply wrong in my view as Gailey was seen as a really poor recruiter and had taken a significant step back during his first 5 years in terms of recruiting. As I said earlier to judge the ability of tech to recruit based off the first 5 years of Gailey and the entirety of Johnson does nothing but show where our floor should be. Neither were considered strong recruiters although Gailey did turn that around.

'08 was trending towards a high 30's/low 40's ranking before he was fired. He found lightning in a bottle in '07, and it's possible he could have replicated it had he been given the chance. We will never know that. As I have said, I provided data, and the data doesn't really support your narrative or the CPJ defenders narrative, but rather, paints a picture somewhat in the middle. As for your assertion that this is where the floor should be, I'd say you are correct. I'm willing to bet that both CCG and CPJ would have been better recruiters had the GTAA and former ADs kept pace with program spending. When they allowed us to become the second lowest spender in the ACC, they hamstrung our program. It's a wonder that either coach was able to recruit decent players at all.

 

[Boaty1]

'08 was trending towards a high 30's/low 40's ranking before he was fired. He found lightning in a bottle in '07, and it's possible he could have replicated it had he been given the chance. We will never know that. As I have said, I provided data, and the data doesn't really support your narrative or the CPJ defenders narrative, but rather, paints a picture somewhat in the middle. As for your assertion that this is where the floor should be, I'd say you are correct. I'm willing to bet that both CCG and CPJ would have been better recruiters had the GTAA and former ADs kept pace with program spending. When they allowed us to become the second lowest spender in the ACC, they hamstrung our program. It's a wonder that either coach was able to recruit decent players at all.

Fair enough. I believe you are severely underestimating the degree to which Johnson's offense hurt recruiting but at least we can agree that the last 2 coaches have demonstrated what our floor should be in recruiting. And I agree that the investment in our program has to improve.

Here is something else to consider when thinking about Johnson's recruiting that was in his favor thanks to his own good work on the sidelines. After 08, 09 & 14 he was coming off very successful seasons and he still could not turn the on field success into anything significant on the recruiting trail. I would have thought if he had the ability to recruit at an average level the 2010 class would have been a top 20 type class since we were coming off a combined 20 wins in the previous 2 seasons and an ACC Championship and a victory over UGA mixed in. The infrastructure argument for the relatively poor class in 2010 is not convincing since it was just 3 years removed from the 07 class that was so successful.

We will also have to agree to disagree on the 08 class. It was on track to be better than any class Johnson brought in. There were several decommits once Gailey was fired that were highly recruited kids. 2 of them I know went on to play in the NFL while 1 was a first round draft pick. We also lost another to Alabama. Yes you read that right. We had won a recruiting battle against a Nick Saban led Bama program.

 

[Animal02]

Again, I am just posting raw data. Gailey had to deal with reduced recruiting classes due to flunkgate just as CPJ had some reduced to the DRad mishandling of the NCAA investigation. CPJ also had more special admits given to him a few years ago after he proved he could graduate players, so, IMO, it's almost a wash. That being said, I do believe that the numbers do not back up what the most negative people say, but they also don't prove that CPJ was a recruiting genius either.

I would not classify him as a genius....but he was doing well considering the increased limitations.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

We had won a recruiting battle against a Nick Saban led Bama program.

We won one of these with CPJ as well.

 

[Boaty1]

We won one of these with CPJ as well.

Ahhh. That's right. I think you will give me that there were some special circumstances in regards to the Thomas recruitment.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I would have thought if he had the ability to recruit at an average level the 2010 class would have been a top 20 type class since we were coming off a combined 20 wins in the previous 2 seasons and an ACC Championship and a victory over UGA mixed in.

The 2010 class was ranked higher than all but one of CCGs.

 

[Boaty1]

The 2010 class was ranked higher than all but one of CCGs.

No doubt about that. Like I said, using Gailey as your barometer for expectations on recruiting is not fair to the GT program in my estimation because his first 5 seasons were seen as very poor and well below the standard his predecessor had set.

 

[ibeattetris]

I also agree with Augusta that average star is probably more important for us to consider than "overall". We are never going to be a team with high turnover that will allow us to sign 25 a year like the factories, and the total number signed is weighted too strong.

As far as that is concerned, we have been trending up. Let's have that trend continue!

 

[bennyjacket]

I expect recruiting to remain the same regardless of what coach we end up hiring. All of the people who complain about the CPJ system preventing us from recruiting can finally stfu and pick something else to blame.

 

[GTRambler]

I find it interesting that the college football “recruiting rankings” magazines and subscriber websites do not include the high school players’ academic grades and SAT and/or ACT scores, etc.

 

[ibeattetris]

I find it interesting that the college football “recruiting rankings” magazines and subscriber websites do not include the high school players’ academic grades and SAT and/or ACT scores, etc.

Sadly, they don't give you extra points on Saturdays based on your SAT difference.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I have a different view of it Augusta. I've been a Tech fan for a while and have closely followed recruiting since the late 90's. During Gailey's first few years his recruiting classes were ripped apart by Tech fans who had become used to competing with the big boys for our players. As time went on however and he developed his staff and connections in the south east his recruiting took a sharp turn for the better and in 07 and 08. My argument would be that he figured out how to recruit to GT and in fact his 07 and what was leading to his 08 class were more in line with what we should expect with recruiting as they correlate better with where O'Leary left the program. Comparing Johnson to the first 5 years of Gailey and drawing the conclusion that he faired similarly so this must be GT's ceiling or expectation in regards to recruiting is simply wrong in my view as Gailey was seen as a really poor recruiter and had taken a significant step back during his first 5 years in terms of recruiting. As I said earlier to judge the ability of tech to recruit based off the first 5 years of Gailey and the entirety of Johnson does nothing but show where our floor should be. Neither were considered strong recruiters although Gailey did turn that around.

Odd that CCG had such a steep learning curve. Reports at the time said one of the reasons he was chosen was that he was from Georgia, "everyone" remembered his career in Americus (I believe it was) and he had friends who were high school coaches all over the state. Recruiting was going to be his strong suit as oft repeated in the AJC.

Two possible ways to look at this. High school connections and pro coaching experience don't guarantee anything, or, there is no ready made template for recruiting at Tech.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Odd that CCG had such a steep learning curve. Reports at the time said one of the reasons he was chosen was that he was from Georgia, "everyone" remembered his career in Americus (I believe it was) and he had friends who were high school coaches all over the state. Recruiting was going to be his strong suit as oft repeated in the AJC.

Two possible ways to look at this. High school connections and pro coaching experience don't guarantee anything, or, there is no ready made template for recruiting at Tech.

This above in bold. I am hoping that someone (magical personality with a vision) proves this to be wrong someday, but I think, for now, this is the case.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Ahhh. That's right. I think you will give me that there were some special circumstances in regards to the Thomas recruitment.

There are always special circumstances when Tech wins a recruiting battle with Bama. Just like there are special circumstances when someone like Calvin Johnson decides he wants to put education on an equal plane with an NFL career.

 

[COJacket]

I love data. It's what has to drive debate. Unfortunately this data leaves out the O'Leary years which were just before this. Oleary had brought in 3 consecutive top 25ish classes before he left. I've tried to research this but the current databases only go back to 02. What I was able to find was a ranking by Tom Lemming on the 00 class that showed us 12th in the country. This was 3 spots ahead of UGA. The 01 class I couldn't find a ranking but was able to find quotes about GT becoming a major player in recruiting and similar quotes on the 99 class. Look at who we beat out for some of those players and you will see our recruiting took a giant step backwards in Gailey's when Gailey was hired from where O'Leary had us. One of the reasons I'm sure was the fact that Gailey came from the NFL and didn't have connections established to recruit the way O'leary and staff did which is one of the concerns about the potential hire of Whisenhunt. The argument can be made that he made the adjustment however and reeled in the 07 class and was on the verge of another borderline top 25 class in 08 before he was fired.

If you view the 99-01 classes as top 25, and I'm sure 00 & 01 were, then 4 of the 9 classes signed before Johnson were top 25. If you remove the 99 class which would have been the only one in question then that is 3 of 9. I believe Johnson's highest rated class per Rivals was 39th. In 11 years he was never able to figure out how to recruit to GT. I know people have different views on why this is. Some point to the changing landscape while others point to his offense and there may be merit to both sides. Regardless, taking a look at GT and gauging our recruiting potential off of what we have done since 02 will give you nothing really other than what our floor should be in recruiting. We had one coach transitioning from the NFL to college and another coach running an offense that potential recruits want nothing to do with.

But this would also mean that Gailey had a stacked roster when he came in. Much better than CPJ. Why couldn’t Gailey win with all that talent? I really have my opinion but would love to hear other views

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

There are always special circumstances when Tech wins a recruiting battle with Bama. Just like there are special circumstances when someone like Calvin Johnson decides he wants to put education on an equal plane with an NFL career.

Oh, how I wish these "special circumstances" would happen more often. But, I also wish for world peace.

 

[tsrich]

This above in bold. I am hoping that someone (magical personality with a vision) proves this to be wrong someday, but I think, for now, this is the case.

I think CCG's HS connections were exaggerated. It really takes a lot of time and relationship building. That's one of the reasons someone like Elliott is intriguing. He's been on the ground making those connections, so you'd hope the upswing in recruiting could happen more quickly.

 

[g0lftime]

I find it interesting that the college football “recruiting rankings” magazines and subscriber websites do not include the high school players’ academic grades and SAT and/or ACT scores, etc.

They used to announce the players major on TV when they identified them as well. Charlie Ward major was Liesure Studies. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Animal02]

But this would also mean that Gailey had a stacked roster when he came in. Much better than CPJ. Why couldn’t Gailey win with all that talent? I really have my opinion but would love to hear other views

Oh the irony.....boaty ignores any data that doesn't fit his narrative.

 

[Animal02]

I expect recruiting to remain the same regardless of what coach we end up hiring. All of the people who complain about the CPJ system preventing us from recruiting can finally stfu and pick something else to blame.

You expect facts to get in the way of their narrative? Surely you just.