Prominent Coaches' First Year Scares

[Cam]

I know that the loss yesterday still stings, but I think it's worth looking at it from a different perspective. Below I'll list a couple coaches' first seasons with new teams and some notable games.

Nick Saban @ LSU (2000): Lost to UAB 10-13 on Homecoming - a Conference USA team that finished 7-4.
Nick Saban @ Alabama (2007): Lost to Louisiana-Monroe 14-21 - a Sun Belt team that finished 6-6.
Kirby Smart (2016): Beat Nicholls State 26-24 in his first home game - an FCS team that finished 5-6.
Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): Beat Gardner-Webb 10-7 - an FCS team that finished 5-6.

Let's look at one last one. Gary Patterson has had a pretty great career at TCU and is entering his 20th season. He has a 169-63 record overall, has seven 10+ win seasons finishing in the top 10 (3 in the last 5 seasons), and is known as one of the best defensive minds in college football. He went 6-6 in his first year after the team finished 10-1 the previous season under the old coach. That first season for Patterson included several bad losses, most notably one to FCS Northwestern State on Homecoming with a score of 27-24 in OT. Sounds familiar.

The point is that these kinds of games happen everywhere in the first season and aren't indicative of the future success of a coach. You can argue "a win is a win" in Smart and Johnson's case, but that doesn't excuse the team performance in those games. I'm not saying that Collins will win a national championship in year 4 like Saban at LSU (or year 3 at Alabama), make the finals like Smart in year 2, or even win 9 games like Johnson. But transition years where we rank 119th in returning production aren't always a recipe for success, even against Citadel. I just ask to try to keep faith like our current and former players (Synjyn Days and Trey Braun) who are closest to the program and believe things are headed the right way despite the loss. The coaches and players will learn from this loss and build on it. Just hope they're building quickly.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@Cam Here’s their records for the season:

Nick Saban @ LSU (2000): 8-4
Nick Saban @ Alabama (2007): 7-6
Kirby Smart (2016): 8-5
Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): 9-4

I’ll take any one of these records at the end of the season.

 

[Cam]

@Cam Here’s their records for the season:

Nick Saban @ LSU (2000): 8-4
Nick Saban @ Alabama (2007): 7-6
Kirby Smart (2016): 8-5
Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): 9-4

I’ll take any one of these records at the end of the season.

I would too. And those coaches walked into undeniably much better situations than Collins from a transition standpoint. Frankly, the Coastal has looked like such garbage that I don't put it out of the realm of possibility that we can still put together a decent season. I think every win will be ugly, but I will take each and every one of them. The issues in the game were acknowledged by the staff and they are fixable. I am not at all okay with the loss and I lay the blame on the coaches, but what I'm suggesting with the OP is that we allow everyone to learn from it the same way those other successful coaches had.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I would too. And those coaches walked into undeniably much better situations than Collins from a transition standpoint. Frankly, the Coastal has looked like such garbage that I don't put it out of the realm of possibility that we can still put together a decent season. I think every win will be ugly, but I will take each and every one of them. The issues in the game were acknowledged by the staff and they are fixable. I am not at all okay with the loss and I lay the blame on the coaches, but what I'm suggesting with the OP is that we allow everyone to learn from it the same way those other successful coaches had.

It’s what they do now that will cement their future near term and short term. It’s on them to get this program back to the level they received it, then improve from there.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

I know that the loss yesterday still stings, but I think it's worth looking at it from a different perspective. Below I'll list a couple coaches' first seasons with new teams and some notable games.

Nick Saban @ LSU (2000): Lost to UAB 10-13 on Homecoming - a Conference USA team that finished 7-4.
Nick Saban @ Alabama (2007): Lost to Louisiana-Monroe 14-21 - a Sun Belt team that finished 6-6.
Kirby Smart (2016): Beat Nicholls State 26-24 in his first home game - an FCS team that finished 5-6.
Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): Beat Gardner-Webb 10-7 - an FCS team that finished 5-6.

Let's look at one last one. Gary Patterson has had a pretty great career at TCU and is entering his 20th season. He has a 169-63 record overall, has seven 10+ win seasons finishing in the top 10 (3 in the last 5 seasons), and is known as one of the best defensive minds in college football. He went 6-6 in his first year after the team finished 10-1 the previous season under the old coach. That first season for Patterson included several bad losses, most notably one to FCS Northwestern State on Homecoming with a score of 27-24 in OT. Sounds familiar.

The point is that these kinds of games happen everywhere in the first season and aren't indicative of the future success of a coach. You can argue "a win is a win" in Smart and Johnson's case, but that doesn't excuse the team performance in those games. I'm not saying that Collins will win a national championship in year 4 like Saban at LSU (or year 3 at Alabama), make the finals like Smart in year 2, or even win 9 games like Johnson. But transition years where we rank 119th in returning production aren't always a recipe for success, even against Citadel. I just ask to try to keep faith like our current and former players (Synjyn Days and Trey Braun) who are closest to the program and believe things are headed the right way despite the loss. The coaches and players will learn from this loss and build on it. Just hope they're building quickly.

Too much logic.

Realize also that NO 1st year coach in GT history inherited a roster as good as CPJ. At least 5 that went to the NFL.

 

[bke1984]

So first of all, take the coaches that won the games out. Doesn’t matter how close a win was. But beyond that...you listed a bunch of coaches, but only one that actually lost to an FCS team. Albeit a great example, that’s still only one coach that lost.

There’s no way to put a positive spin on what happened yesterday...period

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I know that the loss yesterday still stings, but I think it's worth looking at it from a different perspective. Below I'll list a couple coaches' first seasons with new teams and some notable games.

Nick Saban @ LSU (2000): Lost to UAB 10-13 on Homecoming - a Conference USA team that finished 7-4.
Nick Saban @ Alabama (2007): Lost to Louisiana-Monroe 14-21 - a Sun Belt team that finished 6-6.
Kirby Smart (2016): Beat Nicholls State 26-24 in his first home game - an FCS team that finished 5-6.
Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): Beat Gardner-Webb 10-7 - an FCS team that finished 5-6.

Let's look at one last one. Gary Patterson has had a pretty great career at TCU and is entering his 20th season. He has a 169-63 record overall, has seven 10+ win seasons finishing in the top 10 (3 in the last 5 seasons), and is known as one of the best defensive minds in college football. He went 6-6 in his first year after the team finished 10-1 the previous season under the old coach. That first season for Patterson included several bad losses, most notably one to FCS Northwestern State on Homecoming with a score of 27-24 in OT. Sounds familiar.

The point is that these kinds of games happen everywhere in the first season and aren't indicative of the future success of a coach. You can argue "a win is a win" in Smart and Johnson's case, but that doesn't excuse the team performance in those games. I'm not saying that Collins will win a national championship in year 4 like Saban at LSU (or year 3 at Alabama), make the finals like Smart in year 2, or even win 9 games like Johnson. But transition years where we rank 119th in returning production aren't always a recipe for success, even against Citadel. I just ask to try to keep faith like our current and former players (Synjyn Days and Trey Braun) who are closest to the program and believe things are headed the right way despite the loss. The coaches and players will learn from this loss and build on it. Just hope they're building quickly.

These are good observations and cautionary points for those of us all to ready to toss Coach Collins under the bus so to speak. The difference is that these coaches have proven themselves over the test of time. Does Coach Collins have the same sort of mettle to meet the challenge? We will soon find out.

 

[YellowJacketFan2018]

Here are some more head coaching scares going back a ways for your list

1964 Vince Dooley UGAG 7-7 tied with 3-5-2 South Carolina

1945 Bear Bryant Maryland Lost 33-14 to William & Mary

1975 Pat Dye East Carolina Lost 41-25 to Appalachian State

1964 Doug Dickey Tennessee Lost 7-0 to Vanderbilt

 

[gthxxxx]

Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): Beat Gardner-Webb 10-7 - an FCS team that finished 5-6.

If I remember correctly, two weeks before that game, the 1st string QB went out due to injuries. One week before that game, the 2nd string QB went out due to injuries. Perhaps one can argue CPJ should've prepared the 3rd string QB to run his offence better during the off-season since that position is so crucial, but I don't fault him for spending his efforts elsewhere, particularly with the final season results.

And those coaches walked into undeniably much better situations than Collins from a transition standpoint.

I think the transition was done a lot more smoothly than you're giving credit for. CPJ and GT parted ways on as good of terms as can be expected with foreknowledge around end of last season (likely earlier based on some reports). New coaching staff was given an abundant amount of support with supposedly more loose purse strings. The inherited team strengths may not have been the most compatible with the incoming staff, but there was a full off-season to evaluate, design, and implement a strategy. [Edit: I don't follow recruiting that well, but I also got the impression from this board a year or two ago that better days were coming in 2019 regarding incoming talent.]

The issues in the game were acknowledged by the staff and they are fixable. I am not at all okay with the loss and I lay the blame on the coaches, but what I'm suggesting with the OP is that we allow everyone to learn from it the same way those other successful coaches had.

The main difference I see is that some of the most glaring issues (i.e. lack of direction and cohesive strategy) should have never been as big of a problem as seen in the Citadel game and should have been prepared for during the off-season. Also, the deliberate strategy of rotating personnel and having multiple equal starters at some (most?) positions doesn't seem to be delivering favorable results, but it appears that the staff is doubling down on it, i.e. "ATL" instead of 1st & 2nd string. It may be a winning idea, but so far it isn't looking so good.

Finally, just throwing it out there, but perhaps too much time has been dedicated to individual player S&C instead of practicing tactics as a unit tailored towards both the team's strengths as well as opponent tendencies. I don't believe our players are physically outmatched by Citadel's but are instead not as refined in team play and opponent preparedness.

 

[lv20gt]

If I remember correctly, two weeks before that game, the 1st string QB went out due to injuries. One week before that game, the 2nd string QB went out due to injuries. Perhaps one can argue CPJ should've prepared the 3rd string QB to run his offence better during the off-season since that position is so crucial, but I don't fault him for spending his efforts elsewhere, particularly with the final season results.

We're a team that basically doesn't have a first or second string QB where the third string is worse than just putting a running back out there and direct snapping it.

 

[gthxxxx]

We're a team that basically doesn't have a first or second string QB where the third string is worse than just putting a running back out there and direct snapping it.

But the main difference is that it seems the plan starting the season is a 3 QB rotation, and based on the first two games, a rather puzzling rotation where the QB that shows more success is not kept in.

 

[White_Gold]

But the main difference is that it seems the plan starting the season is a 3 QB rotation, and based on the first two games, a rather puzzling rotation where the QB that shows more success is not kept in.

You’re carefully forgetting all the offensive line problems that lead to inconsistency in QB play.
Even further, we aren’t privy to all the reps in practice. So, we can only come to conclusions without the full set of data available.

 

[lv20gt]

But the main difference is that it seems the plan starting the season is a 3 QB rotation, and based on the first two games, a rather puzzling rotation where the QB that shows more success is not kept in.

Our options were a running back, a "passing" QB who had attempted 1 pass in college in 3 years, and a freshman, none of whom were recruited for the offense, and maybe one of them being a decent fit for it. Yeah, the rotation has been a puzzling one. It was also puzzling when, I believe it was Maryalnd put out a Linebacker at QB a couple years back. Circumstances dictated it though.

 

[Milwaukee]

So first of all, take the coaches that won the games out. Doesn’t matter how close a win was. But beyond that...you listed a bunch of coaches, but only one that actually lost to an FCS team. Albeit a great example, that’s still only one coach that lost.

There’s no way to put a positive spin on what happened yesterday...period

I don’t think anyone is being positive. What do you suggest? Honest question. Should we all go home and burn down our homes? What do you want exactly? If you want us to ***** because the loss isn’t acceptable then that’s okay, and we’re gonna do it. But what else exactly do you want us to do?

Misery needs company is what’s going on here today. Buncha people bitching and crying and getting things off their chest. I get it, it’s warranted, but stop trying to drag people into your holes with you. Lol

 

[stech81]

Our options were a running back, a "passing" QB who had attempted 1 pass in college in 3 years, and a freshman, none of whom were recruited for the offense, and maybe one of them being a decent fit for it. Yeah, the rotation has been a puzzling one. It was also puzzling when, I believe it was Maryalnd put out a Linebacker at QB a couple years back. Circumstances dictated it though.

Hey we have a freshman playing LB that has played QB. Maybe next game we can rotate 4 players.

 

[stech81]

I don’t think anyone is being positive. What do you suggest? Honest question. Should we all go home and burn down our homes? What do you want exactly? If you want us to ***** because the loss isn’t acceptable then that’s okay, and we’re gonna do it. But what else exactly do you want us to do?

Well can you get me a beer I'm out

 

[gthxxxx]

You’re carefully forgetting all the offensive line problems that lead to inconsistency in QB play.
Even further, we aren’t privy to all the reps in practice. So, we can only come to conclusions without the full set of data available.

?? I was talking about the HC (or OC's) plan to start the first game with a 3 QB rotation based on what happened and what they stated.

Our options were a running back, a "passing" QB who had attempted 1 pass in college in 3 years, and a freshman, none of whom were recruited for the offense, and maybe one of them being a decent fit for it. Yeah, the rotation has been a puzzling one. It was also puzzling when, I believe it was Maryalnd put out a Linebacker at QB a couple years back. Circumstances dictated it though.

If I remember correctly, MD was extremely unlucky that season in that their QBs (4 of them?) were injured during the games to the point that yes, a linebacker was put in the QB position (QB #5?). Sort of different than starting a fresh season with a 3 QB rotation.

 

[swarmer]

@Cam Here’s their records for the season:

Nick Saban @ LSU (2000): 8-4
Nick Saban @ Alabama (2007): 7-6
Kirby Smart (2016): 8-5
Paul Johnson @ GT (2008): 9-4

I’ll take any one of these records at the end of the season.

Without looking I’m willing to bet They also all inherited rosters with a dozen or more nfl players.

 

[Milwaukee]

Well can you get me a beer I'm out

I can get you something if you’ll stop bitching. Just name it. I have Amazon I can ship to you tomorrow.

 

[lv20gt]

Hey we have a freshman playing LB that has played QB. Maybe next game we can rotate 4 players.

Can he play OL though?