Program has bigger problems

[KlausMikaelsonTheOriginal]

Ole Miss is a prime example that success often comes with a different coach. Hugh Freeze did not get a great recruiting class because the school was Ole Miss, it was because the players were attracted to his characteristics and offers. Of course, he is a relative new coach, so we don't know what else is behind the scenes, but it was his attraction and offers that brought in the recruits.

Ole' Miss is on the path for their Program to have an "ESPN 30-for-30 special" done about them at some point in the future.

In the modern Era of CFB elite recruits have ignored OM FB, and now because of Freeze, then all of sudden 5* recruits are turning down Bama, LSU and UGA to play for OM?

It is going to come out at some point.

Their T-Fr. OT Tunsil was expected to start or compete for a Starting spot on a UGA team coming off of a 12-win season and then his GF get miraculously accepted to OM (with fin. aid.scholarship money) and then late in the Recruiting process he's headed to OM.

Nkimdeche's Dad (a Dr.) gets a gig at a local Hospital out of nowhere and then his son is no longer going to Clemson coming off of an 11-win season.

You'd have to be real naive to think that OM is doing things the "right way", they are more disgusting than most in the SEC and that's saying something.

 

[AE 87]

I thought that I would add a couple more facts to dispel some of the myths that have shown-up in this thread.

@LibertyTurns your comment about Stanford's entrance requirement is not entirely true or is misleading. Stanford changed their approach to entrance requirements in 2007 or so. Stanford now has NO minimum requirements for GPA or Test Scores. Their entrance assessment for all students includes special talents or skills. In other words, if a football player can pass the NCAA requirements then they can get into Stanford. For a regular student who doesn't bring special talents, then yes their competition results in typically higher expectations than Tech's but you can't just apply that to actors, musicians, and athletes who go there.

@Mack the APR, academic progress rate, was introduced in 2004. Ross and O'leary, and even the first few years of Chan, etc that you mentioned didn't have that hurdle. Now, I don't know what our graduation rates were under those coaches but I recall there being some issue there.

These two points come together in an important way. It's not just a matter of getting them in, it's also a matter of keeping them on track to graduate at a rate that's faster than a lot of regular Tech students. That's where Stanford being able to get more guys in and having more majors, courses for keeping them in is not insignificant.

 

[Mack]

I thought that I would add a couple more facts to dispel some of the myths that have shown-up in this thread.

@LibertyTurns your comment about Stanford's entrance requirement is not entirely true or is misleading. Stanford changed their approach to entrance requirements in 2007 or so. Stanford now has NO minimum requirements for GPA or Test Scores. Their entrance assessment for all students includes special talents or skills. In other words, if a football player can pass the NCAA requirements then they can get into Stanford. For a regular student who doesn't bring special talents, then yes their competition results in typically higher expectations than Tech's but you can't just apply that to actors, musicians, and athletes who go there.

@Mack the APR, academic progress rate, was introduced in 2004. Ross and O'leary, and even the first few years of Chan, etc that you mentioned didn't have that hurdle. Now, I don't know what our graduation rates were under those coaches but I recall there being some issue there.

These two points come together in an important way. It's not just a matter of getting them in, it's also a matter of keeping them on track to graduate at a rate that's faster than a lot of regular Tech students. That's where Stanford being able to get more guys in and having more majors, courses for keeping them in is not insignificant.

Agree with your point vs Stanford but my point is we either get folks who can pass and are interested or we drop down to teams we can compete with..........like you have said we have high standards but the football teams we play are from liberal art schools and we cannot compete in the long run.Let me put it to you this way.......you are in a car wreck and a uga doc is fixing to operate.......do you wonder if the starting qb is eligible for the year ? Football players surely get special privileges at big schools but majority of folks like the wins and are not worried about GPA...its nice we do but got to be hard to know you are taking tough courses and working hard and the guy on the other side is taking Parks and Rec and has time to spend all night if necessary in the weight room...No doubt its a different world football wise but I think liberal art schools have big heads up on us..........

 

[Ggee87]

I've never understood why we wouldn't be begging Calvin and Bey-Bey to come back and help market GT sports. Is the relationships with former players that awful? I never hear anything about this occurring. Chris Bosh Miami Heat, Calvin the best WR in NFL, Bey-Bey is in top 5 in NFL. Morgan Burnett, Derrick Morgan, Michael Johnson... all household names around the league. Yet we don't utilize these resources. Instead we use that goofy convocation speech and the kids riding tricycles to market our program. Very Sad.

 

[AE 87]

Agree with your point vs Stanford but my point is we either get folks who can pass and are interested or we drop down to teams we can compete with..........like you have said we have high standards but the football teams we play are from liberal art schools and we cannot compete in the long run.Let me put it to you this way.......you are in a car wreck and a uga doc is fixing to operate.......do you wonder if the starting qb is eligible for the year ? Football players surely get special privileges at big schools but majority of folks like the wins and are not worried about GPA...its nice we do but got to be hard to know you are taking tough courses and working hard and the guy on the other side is taking Parks and Rec and has time to spend all night if necessary in the weight room...No doubt its a different world football wise but I think liberal art schools have big heads up on us..........

I don't think you understand my point, and I'm not sure you want to. Your comments about U[sic]Ga doctors and folks worrying about gpa have no relationship to what I was saying.

 

[DaddyBill]

Probably shouldn't go into lots of detail, but the recruiting process for Tre' was somewhat different than for most other players. First, he doesn't fit the "model" for the protypical middle linebacker...being 5'10". He was on the radar for both Miami and Vandy for a while. Was the top LB at a Miami camp in the summer of 2012 and got an invite for an unofficial visit to Vandy in the fall of '12 to watch them play UT. Seems their interest died out somewhat. Coaches from Cincy, Charlotte, Chattanooga and WF made verbal overtures and then last March CAMc stopped by Lowndes High. talked to the head coach, watched some more film and told Tre' they wanted him at Tech. That was actually his first real offer. The family talked it over for a few days and I talked with both CAMc and CTR. They said they had been watching him for a couple of years, thought he could play at Tech and they wanted him. The fact that an ACC/D1 program really did want him and that it was only 200 miles from home, as well as being a top-level academic program cinched his early commitment. Had he waited until Feb. 5th I have no idea who else may have come into the picture nor if the offered from Tech would still be there. Finishing his classes at Lowndes High with a 3.9 GPA, being the defensive player of the year in Region 1-AAAAAA and making the AJC all-state squad may or may not have opened some other doors. But he is still happy with his decision and excited about becoming a Yellow Jacket...which happens tomorrow when he checks in for spring semester.

 

[Rodney Kent]

Klaus: You may be right, that is why I left the little caveat about his recruiting at the end of the reply. I have heard one rumor about Hugh Freeze, but dismissed it until I see more smoke. That is one advantage of coaching in the SEC, someone can pay the players. Of course, we have had a few to do that in the ACC. I think one was called "Free Shoes University"!

 

[daBuzz]

Klaus: You may be right, that is why I left the little caveat about his recruiting at the end of the reply. I have heard one rumor about Hugh Freeze, but dismissed it until I see more smoke. That is one advantage of coaching in the SEC, someone can pay the players. Of course, we have had a few to do that in the ACC. I think one was called "Free Shoes University"!

Well, I'm not saying we do, don't or didn't.....but John Salley's parents were NOT affluent people and he drove a brand new white 300ZX while he was at Tech because I used to see him park it curbside and get it out of almost daily as I was walking up the hill to go to classes in 1984. Just saying.

 

[collegeballfan]

Well, I'm not saying we do, don't or didn't.....but John Salley's parents were NOT affluent people and he drove a brand new white 300ZX while he was at Tech because I used to see him park it curbside and get it out of almost daily as I was walking up the hill to go to classes in 1984. Just saying.

Salley addressed this issue years ago in a TV interview. His brothers and parents were far from poor. They bought the car.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@LibertyTurns your comment about Stanford's entrance requirement is not entirely true or is misleading. Stanford changed their approach to entrance requirements in 2007 or so. Stanford now has NO minimum requirements for GPA or Test Scores.

I'll try to make myself perfectly clear- First, I am 100% confident that I'm more familiar with Stanford's admissions process for special admits. Also, Stanford's requirements for special admits has not changed in over 30 years. You can believe what I'm saying or not but if I ever insinuated it was harder to get a football player into Stanford than GT it was because MS auto spell checks as I type and I'm normally too lazy to reread what I've typed. I only have so much patience with iPhone technology. Stanford is a private school that has ZERO public oversight. It does what it wants including revoking scholarships to kids they've already committed to because some other kid that's better jumps up at the last minute-usually because that kid got bumped from another top notch FB school and is freaking out as NSD is approaching and he didn't play the game right.

Being an alum, don't get me wrong when USC is in town or Cal the atmosphere is good. Rest of the games I'll take the Flats. I will tell you this, in my opinion is 2-3 years Stanford will be back off the radar as USC, UCLA, Wash, etc get their programs fixed.

You guys with SPE are hilarious. Look at the college landscape, it's up and down every year for the 50ish competitive programs out there that are not perennially top 10-15. GT just happens to be at the short end of the stick right now. This too will pass.

 

[AE 87]

Stanford doesn't have special admits any more because they changed their admission process in about 2007.

 

[Mack]

I don't think you understand my point, and I'm not sure you want to. Your comments about U[sic]Ga doctors and folks worrying about gpa have no relationship to what I was saying.

then you missed the point my friend.....sorry it disturbs you but I understand yours and I agree with you.My point is clear we either reduce academics which will kill the image of tech in some young ones mind or we will not be able to compete with liberal art schools

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

A l

Mack, who's to say we aren't asking this question. The answer we get in most of Georgia is "No". We aren't liked as a program by the teachers, coaches, and students. It's not just athletes. Our perception in our home state is one of contempt and dislike, whereas you ask someone in pretty much every other region and they have a positive perception of the school. It's sad, but it's the state of affairs that Georgia Tech just isn't the "cool" thing. I was hopeful when CPJ came in and said we were going to recruit the state hard, because I thought it would change the perception. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a successful strategy for us because we are viewed by athletes in our own state as a less desirable option than Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, Clemson, FSU, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky and Vandy. We're viewed on the same level of desirability as UCF if not worse. Part of this we have control over and part of it is the inevitable conclusion of the ESECPN mentality that's so prevalent here in the southeast.

Part of this is due to the large # of UGA grads and low # of Tech grads in state. Another part is game day atmosphere. Go check out a Clemson, Bama, FSU, UGA game if you don't believe me.
IMO if you live within driving distance of BDS but don't GO to games you have little reason to complain about recruiting success. Similarly IMO if you go to the game but sit on your hands and make little noise during...you have little reason to complain (I do go to the games and there are vast numbers of the latter filling seats...and least the seat is filled so I appreciate that...just don't complain about recruiting-or team effort for that matter)

 

[Mack]

I thought that I would add a couple more facts to dispel some of the myths that have shown-up in this thread.

@LibertyTurns your comment about Stanford's entrance requirement is not entirely true or is misleading. Stanford changed their approach to entrance requirements in 2007 or so. Stanford now has NO minimum requirements for GPA or Test Scores. Their entrance assessment for all students includes special talents or skills. In other words, if a football player can pass the NCAA requirements then they can get into Stanford. For a regular student who doesn't bring special talents, then yes their competition results in typically higher expectations than Tech's but you can't just apply that to actors, musicians, and athletes who go there.

@Mack the APR, academic progress rate, was introduced in 2004. Ross and O'leary, and even the first few years of Chan, etc that you mentioned didn't have that hurdle. Now, I don't know what our graduation rates were under those coaches but I recall there being some issue there.

These two points come together in an important way. It's not just a matter of getting them in, it's also a matter of keeping them on track to graduate at a rate that's faster than a lot of regular Tech students. That's where Stanford being able to get more guys in and having more majors, courses for keeping them in is not insignificant.

No problem with your post but if we are going to compete with shcools that have lower academics than tech .....sooner or later it catches up recruitig wise.I thin bottom line for sidewalk fan like me is I want to be on a somewhat level playing field and when a great athlete comes in that can do everything on the field but pass and still they let him play...then I am at a disadvantage.

 

[Mack]

A l


Part of this is due to the large # of UGA grads and low # of Tech grads in state. Another part is game day atmosphere. Go check out a Clemson, Bama, FSU, UGA game if you don't believe me.
IMO if you live within driving distance of BDS but don't GO to games you have little reason to complain about recruiting success. Similarly IMO if you go to the game but sit on your hands and make little noise during...you have little reason to complain (I do go to the games and there are vast numbers of the latter filling seats...and least the seat is filled so I appreciate that...just don't complain about recruiting-or team effort for that matter)

Agree totally with you.Now for the young lads benefit not being very vocal fan wise at a Tech game is not new.I can remember the yelling we do now would have been frowned upon in the sixties .Just polite clapping when a guy was removed to the sidelines after a good play.Of course the students try hard but most of us are not as rowdy now as we used to be yet........go to puppy town or Bama etc and folks go crazy.Also we do have a problem filling the stadium but I think its more who we play etc.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

E

The point isn't that those classes are brutal. It's that at other places, they don't have to take them at all...

Exactly

 

[AE 87]

then you missed the point my friend.....sorry it disturbs you but I understand yours and I agree with you.My point is clear we either reduce academics which will kill the image of tech in some young ones mind or we will not be able to compete with liberal art schools

We don't agree.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Ole' Miss is on the path for their Program to have an "ESPN 30-for-30 special" done about them at some point in the future.

In the modern Era of CFB elite recruits have ignored OM FB, and now because of Freeze, then all of sudden 5* recruits are turning down Bama, LSU and UGA to play for OM?

It is going to come out at some point.

Their T-Fr. OT Tunsil was expected to start or compete for a Starting spot on a UGA team coming off of a 12-win season and then his GF get miraculously accepted to OM (with fin. aid.scholarship money) and then late in the Recruiting process he's headed to OM.

Nkimdeche's Dad (a Dr.) gets a gig at a local Hospital out of nowhere and then his son is no longer going to Clemson coming off of an 11-win season.

You'd have to be real naive to think that OM is doing things the "right way", they are more disgusting than most in the SEC and that's saying something.[/quote

That is how it is done at 75% of the schools from Ole Miss, to Clemson, to Fresno, to Ohio State. College football success is driven by the right coach in the right fit, PLUS A TON OF GOOD RECRUITS. Jimbo Fisher is not a much better coach than Bowden--he simple recruited FSU back into the championship picture. All-Barn paid players--probably still does. Chip Kelly can't return to college coaching because of infractions. Reggie Bush got cash. It is how it is done. Period, end of discussion. The programs that aren't doing it--or aren't doing it enough--are on the outside looking in. You can show disdain for Mississippi all you want, but that is what college football is all about and has been since Christ was a midshipman.

 

[AE 87]

@LibertyTurns

First of all, I'm sorry for the confusion. I think that you and I are actually more in agreement than not. Your quote of ATL1 didn't come thru clearly as a quote, and I read it as your point rather than the point you were rejecting.

@ATL1

Here are some interesting links you should consider reading before you toss around the comparison to Stanford.

This one is from 2007 and reflects concerns about admission standards from coaches. It wonders whether relatively new Dean for admissions Richard Shaw would be able to change that situation.

This one is from a month or so ago and while discussing the holistic approach to admissions notes some changes that were introduced in about five years ago.

This one satirically suggests that Richard Shaw becomes the head football coach in 2011.

This one satirizes the admissions process (NSFW, children)

 

[AE 87]

nm