gt24
Jolly Good Fellow
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A too-long analysis of some nitty gritty Xs/Os for our offense this year (so far)... for the coaches and X/O nerds to chime in on with additional details or for the causal fans who might be interested...
Last year was great and beautiful execution of 5-out Princeton continuity, but too vanilla in my mind. I talked myself into believing that Pastner intentionally went vanilla last year because he believed in jose moses and mike so much that he didnt want to complicate **** - K.I.S.S. No idea if thats what it was, but all year I wanted just a little more variety and called actions. I also talked myself into the idea that he was saving new stuff/wrinkles for Feb/March, but it never really materialized or changed. Not much anyway.
As a review of last year... we ran 4-out DDM early in the year and then drifted away from it as the year progressed. We still used it all season, but much less so once the ACC action started. We mostly ran Princeton and as the season progressed we added a 3-man middle high PnR roll/replace set. The Princeton stuff included some called actions at times (as far as I could tell on TV) but not much.
This year Pastner has added some fantastic stuff that I love. And it does not look to me to be stuff that is going away.
1. I do not know all the Princeton variations and would love if others could chime in with deeper knowledge. Last year everything I saw was "standard" Princeton (e.g. point, away, etc). This year we are running all that stuff still, but we are heavy with something "new" (idk if this has a history in Princeton or if Pastner created it as his own variation?). We are running what I would call a 3-man middle Princeton. It's when you see Mike at PG entering to Howard and then cutting to the rim and then "circling" back up to the top using a pindown in the lane before he curls off Howard for a handoff and then does a masterclass on keeping a defender on his hip and changing speeds. We run this for Mike mostly, although definitely for Deivon a few times too. It is a called action and it is designed for Mike (or whoever is playing "PG" to enter to Howard). Three guys are involved in this action in the middle third of the floor. Two others are planted/stationary in the corners waiting for kickouts. Because I do not know Princeton well enough, maybe this is a well know variation in Princeton over the decades? Or maybe Pastner created it on his own as a wrinkle? To me it looks VERY similar to Virginia's 3-man middle motion from last year. (The "actions" are not similar, but the concept and strategy is. Pastner is isolating or simplifying the game to 3v3 in the middle of the floor with a focus on making sure Mike gets the ball back after a series of actions that are hard to defend. They say defending one action is not tough, but defending consecutive actions in quick succession is very hard. That's what this does.) UVA last year ran a 3-man middle motion a ton (even more than blocker/mover) and dared teams to help off the corner shooters - when they did not or could not it simplified the game to 3v3 in the middle third with matchups they liked and players who thrived in that scenario. Pastner is doing it this year for Mike in this new 3-man Princeton circle/curling stuff. It fits with or aligns with our base Princeton and looks the same initially which adds to the power of it. Even better, if it is well defended, it still flows into our regular/base Princeton stuff - so it is not really a "set play" rather it is a called action in Princeton. I love it. And Mike is KILLING teams with it.
2. My second favorite new stuff from Pastner - almost tied with the 3-man circle/curling Princeton stuff described above... last year's roll/replace was a stand-alone that was VERY easy to scout and also identify in live action, and therefore easier to defend than it needed to be imo. (Not "easy" but "easier.") We were very effective with it last year even tho it was very vanilla and an easy scout. This year what Pastner is doing with it is brilliant... He masks it with early Princeton action that then flows into roll/replace. It looks like we are running Princeton until we are not. And it flows seamlessly so the defense cannot adjust or recognize. A simple but brilliant change while still utilizing what the kids already know and what was already designed for their strengths.
3. It gets better (I think)... we have been running #2 above all season so far... but in the last 2 games I have seen us on a few occasions vary/modify #2 above with "Spain" instead of simple roll/replace. I've only seen it maybe ~2 times in each of the last 2 games. I'm hoping it becomes a staple. Last year I begged for it (some people here probably got sick of me asking for it). Now I see it and I hope Pastner is not just dabbling. Spain PnR is almost exact same as roll/replace. Both involve 3 guys running high ballscreen PnR in the middle third with a shooter in each corner. On roll/replace the 3rd guy starts on the block and lifts to the arc weakside slot to "replace" the guy rolling from the PnR. Simple enough. But in Spain, the 3rd guy lifts to the FT line area and sets a backscreen for the picker/roller (usually a 5-man) immediately after the ballscreen. If you can visualize this, it is a variation on the old STS action but with the modern twist of being in a ballscreen situation instead of off-ball like millions of old-school STS plays. Visualize the backscreener's man having to sag and help on the roller because the rollers defender just hedged the high ballscreen and then gets hit immediately with a backscreen while his man rolls to the rim and a PG is looking for him. Because the backscreener's defender has to help on the roller coming off the backscreen, when the backscreener then pops to the arc he is frequently open for a 3 or has a hard-charging closeout that he can attack. It is very very popular in CBB and NBA last few years because it is so hard to defend with modern athletic 3-point shooters. It fits perfectly with what we already do, but makes it even harder to defend, imo.
4. We have not run 4-out DDM this year at all as far as I can tell. Perhaps 2 or 3 possessions in 1 or 2 of the first week games maybe - but I have not seen it since then (even if I did see it back then, which I am not sure about).
Final note/gripe since this is already ridiculously long, why not keep going... I see a lot of posts complaining about us running Princeton with Howard at the 5-spot and him not being able to knock down 15 footers. I agree that would be lovely. But I disagree with folks saying that means Pastner should change the offense or move Howard to the low block (i.e. "Princeton Low"). I do not know the full history of Princeton, but my general understanding is that it has been around for many many decades and has always been designed to be a 5-out offense run through a big man at the elbow or slot. And until very very recently, most 5s were not outside shooting weapons for most of the history of basketball. So the offense has been successful and even mildly famous (enough that causal fans know that it is the name of a CBB offense) for decades while being run with 5s frequently catching the ball at the elbow or slot and not killing opponents on perimeter jump shots. The offense is designed for all the cuts and screens and curls and DHOs and rubs even when opponents play the 5-man in various ways. Sure, some teams have run Princeton with effective perimeter-shooting 5s, but certainly not all. Yes it would be even more devastating if every Princeton 5-man were an elite perimeter shooting big, but that is not a prerequisite, as far as I can tell. Last point on this -- Pastner did not come into this season without knowing exactly what Howard can and cannot do in that spot and how teams would defend it. He has not been "caught off guard" with teams giving Howard a cushion.
Last year was great and beautiful execution of 5-out Princeton continuity, but too vanilla in my mind. I talked myself into believing that Pastner intentionally went vanilla last year because he believed in jose moses and mike so much that he didnt want to complicate **** - K.I.S.S. No idea if thats what it was, but all year I wanted just a little more variety and called actions. I also talked myself into the idea that he was saving new stuff/wrinkles for Feb/March, but it never really materialized or changed. Not much anyway.
As a review of last year... we ran 4-out DDM early in the year and then drifted away from it as the year progressed. We still used it all season, but much less so once the ACC action started. We mostly ran Princeton and as the season progressed we added a 3-man middle high PnR roll/replace set. The Princeton stuff included some called actions at times (as far as I could tell on TV) but not much.
This year Pastner has added some fantastic stuff that I love. And it does not look to me to be stuff that is going away.
1. I do not know all the Princeton variations and would love if others could chime in with deeper knowledge. Last year everything I saw was "standard" Princeton (e.g. point, away, etc). This year we are running all that stuff still, but we are heavy with something "new" (idk if this has a history in Princeton or if Pastner created it as his own variation?). We are running what I would call a 3-man middle Princeton. It's when you see Mike at PG entering to Howard and then cutting to the rim and then "circling" back up to the top using a pindown in the lane before he curls off Howard for a handoff and then does a masterclass on keeping a defender on his hip and changing speeds. We run this for Mike mostly, although definitely for Deivon a few times too. It is a called action and it is designed for Mike (or whoever is playing "PG" to enter to Howard). Three guys are involved in this action in the middle third of the floor. Two others are planted/stationary in the corners waiting for kickouts. Because I do not know Princeton well enough, maybe this is a well know variation in Princeton over the decades? Or maybe Pastner created it on his own as a wrinkle? To me it looks VERY similar to Virginia's 3-man middle motion from last year. (The "actions" are not similar, but the concept and strategy is. Pastner is isolating or simplifying the game to 3v3 in the middle of the floor with a focus on making sure Mike gets the ball back after a series of actions that are hard to defend. They say defending one action is not tough, but defending consecutive actions in quick succession is very hard. That's what this does.) UVA last year ran a 3-man middle motion a ton (even more than blocker/mover) and dared teams to help off the corner shooters - when they did not or could not it simplified the game to 3v3 in the middle third with matchups they liked and players who thrived in that scenario. Pastner is doing it this year for Mike in this new 3-man Princeton circle/curling stuff. It fits with or aligns with our base Princeton and looks the same initially which adds to the power of it. Even better, if it is well defended, it still flows into our regular/base Princeton stuff - so it is not really a "set play" rather it is a called action in Princeton. I love it. And Mike is KILLING teams with it.
2. My second favorite new stuff from Pastner - almost tied with the 3-man circle/curling Princeton stuff described above... last year's roll/replace was a stand-alone that was VERY easy to scout and also identify in live action, and therefore easier to defend than it needed to be imo. (Not "easy" but "easier.") We were very effective with it last year even tho it was very vanilla and an easy scout. This year what Pastner is doing with it is brilliant... He masks it with early Princeton action that then flows into roll/replace. It looks like we are running Princeton until we are not. And it flows seamlessly so the defense cannot adjust or recognize. A simple but brilliant change while still utilizing what the kids already know and what was already designed for their strengths.
3. It gets better (I think)... we have been running #2 above all season so far... but in the last 2 games I have seen us on a few occasions vary/modify #2 above with "Spain" instead of simple roll/replace. I've only seen it maybe ~2 times in each of the last 2 games. I'm hoping it becomes a staple. Last year I begged for it (some people here probably got sick of me asking for it). Now I see it and I hope Pastner is not just dabbling. Spain PnR is almost exact same as roll/replace. Both involve 3 guys running high ballscreen PnR in the middle third with a shooter in each corner. On roll/replace the 3rd guy starts on the block and lifts to the arc weakside slot to "replace" the guy rolling from the PnR. Simple enough. But in Spain, the 3rd guy lifts to the FT line area and sets a backscreen for the picker/roller (usually a 5-man) immediately after the ballscreen. If you can visualize this, it is a variation on the old STS action but with the modern twist of being in a ballscreen situation instead of off-ball like millions of old-school STS plays. Visualize the backscreener's man having to sag and help on the roller because the rollers defender just hedged the high ballscreen and then gets hit immediately with a backscreen while his man rolls to the rim and a PG is looking for him. Because the backscreener's defender has to help on the roller coming off the backscreen, when the backscreener then pops to the arc he is frequently open for a 3 or has a hard-charging closeout that he can attack. It is very very popular in CBB and NBA last few years because it is so hard to defend with modern athletic 3-point shooters. It fits perfectly with what we already do, but makes it even harder to defend, imo.
4. We have not run 4-out DDM this year at all as far as I can tell. Perhaps 2 or 3 possessions in 1 or 2 of the first week games maybe - but I have not seen it since then (even if I did see it back then, which I am not sure about).
Final note/gripe since this is already ridiculously long, why not keep going... I see a lot of posts complaining about us running Princeton with Howard at the 5-spot and him not being able to knock down 15 footers. I agree that would be lovely. But I disagree with folks saying that means Pastner should change the offense or move Howard to the low block (i.e. "Princeton Low"). I do not know the full history of Princeton, but my general understanding is that it has been around for many many decades and has always been designed to be a 5-out offense run through a big man at the elbow or slot. And until very very recently, most 5s were not outside shooting weapons for most of the history of basketball. So the offense has been successful and even mildly famous (enough that causal fans know that it is the name of a CBB offense) for decades while being run with 5s frequently catching the ball at the elbow or slot and not killing opponents on perimeter jump shots. The offense is designed for all the cuts and screens and curls and DHOs and rubs even when opponents play the 5-man in various ways. Sure, some teams have run Princeton with effective perimeter-shooting 5s, but certainly not all. Yes it would be even more devastating if every Princeton 5-man were an elite perimeter shooting big, but that is not a prerequisite, as far as I can tell. Last point on this -- Pastner did not come into this season without knowing exactly what Howard can and cannot do in that spot and how teams would defend it. He has not been "caught off guard" with teams giving Howard a cushion.
