Pastner Has Maximized Tech's Talent

[H-Wade]

Getting THT would have done wonders for this squad

I'm sure you could say that about 10 different guys we've whiffed on in the past 1.5 years.

 

[jeffgt14]

Some ok reasoning in that article but for the most part it sounds like a bunch of excuses and BS. We are not maximizing our talent. We are playing good defense. This is nowhere near a better coaching job than the NIT season. We played great defense, actually ran an offense, and fell flat when talent got to us. What we managed to get out of Q that year was great coaching. I get we're young and that team was older but having 5 guys on the floor afraid to shoot the ball and playing hot potato is not good coaching and not maximizing talent.

 

[MiracleWhips]

Some ok reasoning in that article but for the most part it sounds like a bunch of excuses and BS. We are not maximizing our talent. We are playing good defense. This is nowhere near a better coaching job than the NIT season. We played great defense, actually ran an offense, and fell flat when talent got to us. What we managed to get out of Q that year was great coaching. I get we're young and that team was older but having 5 guys on the floor afraid to shoot the ball and playing hot potato is not good coaching and not maximizing talent.

10000000% agree with you jeff.

 

[presjacket]

I wondered when someone was going to post Bradley's column. I rarely come to the basketball forum here, but I've been visiting since it was published to see if there was discussion about it. I'm just wondering why can't you coach up offense like you coach up defense? And I thought that Pastner was known for his recruiting abilities. Is that not true? Or is his bag man in jail now?

 

[CuseJacket]

Some ok reasoning in that article but for the most part it sounds like a bunch of excuses and BS. We are not maximizing our talent. We are playing good defense. This is nowhere near a better coaching job than the NIT season. We played great defense, actually ran an offense, and fell flat when talent got to us. What we managed to get out of Q that year was great coaching. I get we're young and that team was older but having 5 guys on the floor afraid to shoot the ball and playing hot potato is not good coaching and not maximizing talent.

I like that you're coming hard and I agree, it's hard to say this year's coaching job is better than his first year. As others have stated in other threads, there seems to be opportunity with CJP's rotations and guys fitting certain roles, etc. And I also agree with your underlying point that the results are the results.

So I'm with you to a certain degree, but I think the case is oversimplified a bit. I think better rotations/roles only take us so far. I also don't think CJP has been detrimental to Alvarado's, Haywood's, etc. ability to hit shots. Maybe he has been, but I can't point to what he's doing/not doing this year. Or what his assistants are doing/not doing. Even though there might be something there.

There is at least one material difference between the two years that seems obvious to me, and that is individual players e.g., Josh Okogie and Ben Lammers. Give us either of those guys this year, let alone both, and I suspect we'd see better results (and therefore better confidence) from options 2-5. And confidence is a self-fulfilling asset.

Surprisingly, at least to me, our defense hasn't fallen off with the departures of Okogie or Lammers. Currently #14 in KenPom compared to #6 two years ago. Does that mean CJP is doing a better job coaching D this year? Are we taking that for granted?

I do think there are excuses built into the article. "Maximized" is an absolute word, much like "always", that is easy to refute. I don't suspect the meaning of the word is the actual intent, and I don't even think Pastner would agree he's been flawless. So I blame the author.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Some ok reasoning in that article but for the most part it sounds like a bunch of excuses and BS. We are not maximizing our talent. We are playing good defense. This is nowhere near a better coaching job than the NIT season. We played great defense, actually ran an offense, and fell flat when talent got to us. What we managed to get out of Q that year was great coaching. I get we're young and that team was older but having 5 guys on the floor afraid to shoot the ball and playing hot potato is not good coaching and not maximizing talent.

Keep in mind who was on that team CJPs first year.
Ben Lammers (3rd year playing).
Tadric Jackson (3rd year playing).
Quenton Stephens (4th year playing).
Josh Heath (4th year playing).
Corey Hayward (4th year playing).
Josh Okogie (1st year, NBA now)

Now compare that to our roster this year:
Abdoulaye Gueye - 4th year playing (his ppg have gone 0.5, 1.2, 5.9, 7.0)
Jose Alvarado - second year playing, but missed several games last year due to injuries.
Brandon Alston - second year playing, but has missed significant playing time due to personal reasons.
Curtis Haywood - second year playing, but missed significant playing time last year due to injury.
Moses Wright - second year playing
Evan Cole - second year playing
James Banks - first year playing
Khalid Moore - first year playing
Mike Devoe - first year playing
Kristian Sjolund - first year playing

I mean, this is why you call it a rebuild. We are playing with a nearly new team.

Kentucky had several 5-star players on their 2017-2018 roster yet lost 11 games and only went 10-8 in a weak SEC because they were nearly all first year players. Its extremely hard to win with first year players, even if they are the best in the country.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Now even more guys are sick. Can’t catch a break.

 

[lv20gt]

I don't know if I would say he has done a better job than in year 1, but I also think think this year's team is in a situation where there really is no right button to push like there was with Lammers. It's not like Curt and Jose haven't gotten good looks. They have. They just haven't hit them. And while sometimes you can point to some other aspect and say we should be trying to focus on that instead of 3s, I don't see that available to us this year. We tried it with going to AD and Banks but they are too limited to really carry an offense.

I think the one thing you could argue is that certain coaches are better at handling the mental states of players and that maybe that's where Pastner is lacking this year with regards to Haywood and Jose, but otherwise I see a guy trying a lot of different things all running into the same issues.

 

[alagold]

Getting better offense is a function of yourtalent AND HOW its BEST used.Having sets that MAXIMIZE the team is critical when you have new players.Also working on the Off as hard as DEF (or more) is important.

I love that comment from thr fsu coach--damn them with faint praise-- so pleeze have Pastner stay at Tech as long as possible--we love these 20 pt wins even though we only score in 60s

 

[GTBatGirl96]

Now even more guys are sick. Can’t catch a break.

How in the hell are we in the same city as the CDC and can't get effective dang flu shots?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

How in the hell are we in the same city as the CDC and can't get effective dang flu shots?

They should be required.

 

[glandon1960]

I agree with Bradley's article. CJP has done a good job maximizing what he has. Defense is very good - Offense is a train wreck most nights.
What he does not have is a 'go to' scorer (Okogie would have been that person this year if he stayed).
One go to scorer changes a lot on the offensive end - opens things up for better looks for complementary players.
This team is one go to scorer from being competitive for NIT ... and probably two from being solid NCAA team.

On the court right now, I only see three players ready to start and play starter minutes in the ACC - Alvarado, Devoe, and Banks.
Unfortunately, none of those are 'go to scorers. Alvarado has been in a shooting slump - but that happens to everyone from time to time (we just don't have enough other options to cover for it).
Everyone else, at this stage of their development, is a role or complementary player.
Some of them I am close to thinking will never get to ACC starter level - others I think they may in a year or two.

I watched a lot of video of Usher at USC. He is a very good player - and I expect him to start and play starter minutes once eligible, but I am not sure he is a 'go to' scorer.

Most on this board knew this would be a long season - probably CJP's worst here ... I am sure he knows the record needs to show considerable improvement next year (NIT at minimum) or the seat will get quite warm the following season.

Who CJP signs in the spring will be key .... needs to find backup post player, and proven scorer (could be same person ..... but probably different players).
He has stayed away from the transfer market - but if he dips into it for one season I am ok, but we saw with Gregory that you can't rely on that year to year (plus holes, not core recruiting strategy).

 

[KeystoneJacket]

Caught Vandy on ESPN earlier. Didn't realize how awful they are and have been under Drew.

 

[vadimivich]

Recruiting is 80% of college basketball, maybe more. You can be an astute tactician, you can be a tremendous in game manager, you can do all those things ... if you can't land big time talent, you can't win in a major conference. Period.

Hewitt's staff for the last part of his tenure couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag, but still never went more than 2 seasons without making the NCAAT because they could recruit top flight talent. Gregory & co was a horrendous disaster because he couldn't recruit, and Pastner (shockingly, given he was known as a recruiter) seemingly cannot either and his tenure is also going down the toilet.

Recruit or die. Every year. EVERY YEAR. That's the story of high level college basketball. We have a mid-major roster in a high-major league, and it shows.

 

[slugboy]

How in the hell are we in the same city as the CDC and can't get effective dang flu shots?

There’s a Type A variant that this year’s flu shot is a near miss on. The shot makes it less severe but doesn’t stop it entirely.
The unvaccinated people who caught it full force had a miserable time. It’s a nasty strain, and it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what our players caught.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TaxJacket]

I agree with Bradley's article. CJP has done a good job maximizing what he has. Defense is very good - Offense is a train wreck most nights.
What he does not have is a 'go to' scorer (Okogie would have been that person this year if he stayed).
One go to scorer changes a lot on the offensive end - opens things up for better looks for complementary players.
This team is one go to scorer from being competitive for NIT ... and probably two from being solid NCAA team.

On the court right now, I only see three players ready to start and play starter minutes in the ACC - Alvarado, Devoe, and Banks.
Unfortunately, none of those are 'go to scorers. Alvarado has been in a shooting slump - but that happens to everyone from time to time (we just don't have enough other options to cover for it).
Everyone else, at this stage of their development, is a role or complementary player.
Some of them I am close to thinking will never get to ACC starter level - others I think they may in a year or two.

I watched a lot of video of Usher at USC. He is a very good player - and I expect him to start and play starter minutes once eligible, but I am not sure he is a 'go to' scorer.

Most on this board knew this would be a long season - probably CJP's worst here ... I am sure he knows the record needs to show considerable improvement next year (NIT at minimum) or the seat will get quite warm the following season.

Who CJP signs in the spring will be key .... needs to find backup post player, and proven scorer (could be same person ..... but probably different players).
He has stayed away from the transfer market - but if he dips into it for one season I am ok, but we saw with Gregory that you can't rely on that year to year (plus holes, not core recruiting strategy).

You're right, which why myself and others are down on CJP. If we had recruits coming in we could swallow this bad season. Bottom line is the 2019 class is a huge freaking bust as of now..... I mean we have a chance to sign no one (I'm not counting Usher), that's impressive....

 

[RamblinRed]

I don't think this is Pastner's best job. I don't think he has done a great job and I don't think he has done a horrible job. Just sort of meh.
it was always going to be a test to see if the young team could grab a win or two during the really difficult middle stretch of the schedule and keep their confidence up. They did not.

if this team is going to win another game this season it will have to start tonight.

I've said from the start year 4 would be the big year for me and I have to see two things next year. First, a strong 2020 recruiting class and second positive momentum on the court (18-20 wins and at least an NIT bid). if either of those things do not happen then we will know what we need to know about Pastner's tenure. If both go well then the jury is still out but there are some positive signs.

Year 4 has always been the big year for GT coaches, that is when things come together. if they don't, they are not going to.

FWIW, as i've said from the beginning I like the potential of the FR class. It wasn't going to be one that would be huge contributors from the start, but could be a really solid group by the time they are Jr.

I see the starting lineup next year as Jose, Devoe, Banks, Usher and one of Moore or Sjolund.

 

[MiracleWhips]

Keep in mind who was on that team CJPs first year.
Ben Lammers (3rd year playing).
Tadric Jackson (3rd year playing).
Quenton Stephens (4th year playing).
Josh Heath (4th year playing).
Corey Hayward (4th year playing).
Josh Okogie (1st year, NBA now)

Now compare that to our roster this year:
Abdoulaye Gueye - 4th year playing (his ppg have gone 0.5, 1.2, 5.9, 7.0)
Jose Alvarado - second year playing, but missed several games last year due to injuries.
Brandon Alston - second year playing, but has missed significant playing time due to personal reasons.
Curtis Haywood - second year playing, but missed significant playing time last year due to injury.
Moses Wright - second year playing
Evan Cole - second year playing
James Banks - first year playing
Khalid Moore - first year playing
Mike Devoe - first year playing
Kristian Sjolund - first year playing

I mean, this is why you call it a rebuild. We are playing with a nearly new team.

Kentucky had several 5-star players on their 2017-2018 roster yet lost 11 games and only went 10-8 in a weak SEC because they were nearly all first year players. Its extremely hard to win with first year players, even if they are the best in the country.

Honestly, I am not worried about next year because of talent. I feel as if we have enough pieces at tech to where we can develop guys and get out of the hole. My main concern for next year on the other hand is whether we can get going offensively. I hope this year proved that we need to scrap this princeton offense and sit down and think long and hard about what we will run next year. I believe I could count on one hand how many times I have seen off ball screens set this year. Our movement off the ball has been a concern for most of the season, everyone seems to look confused but again, I think that's on the staff more-so the players. Pastner really needs to look down his long line of assistants and evaluate them. Might need some new faces on the bench next year.....

 

[684Bee]

I don't think this is Pastner's best job. I don't think he has done a great job and I don't think he has done a horrible job. Just sort of meh.
it was always going to be a test to see if the young team could grab a win or two during the really difficult middle stretch of the schedule and keep their confidence up. They did not.

if this team is going to win another game this season it will have to start tonight.

I've said from the start year 4 would be the big year for me and I have to see two things next year. First, a strong 2020 recruiting class and second positive momentum on the court (18-20 wins and at least an NIT bid). if either of those things do not happen then we will know what we need to know about Pastner's tenure. If both go well then the jury is still out but there are some positive signs.

Year 4 has always been the big year for GT coaches, that is when things come together. if they don't, they are not going to.

FWIW, as i've said from the beginning I like the potential of the FR class. It wasn't going to be one that would be huge contributors from the start, but could be a really solid group by the time they are Jr.

I see the starting lineup next year as Jose, Devoe, Banks, Usher and one of Moore or Sjolund.

Your timeline probably would’ve worked out if the Ron Bell and LaBarrie fiascos hadn’t happened.

They did, so it set us back.

I think Pastner has to upgrade at one or two assistant coach spots, or he’s not going to make it.