Our problem is the most part is we need ball players!!!

[augustabuzz]

I will make it clear. I believe we were either equal or ahead on athletic talent compared to 7 teams on our schedule, and one of our wins was against a team (UNC) who has been out recruiting us.

Sure, you can look at Notre Dame and think “we have to improve our recruiting to compete with these guys”. There is no need to say that about Boston College.



I have defended a number of decisions that Collins has made, including taking a lot of transfers last season instead of offering more high school players.
Collins was hired in 2018, had some control over his first recruiting class, two full recruiting classes since then has pulled in transfers in almost every season, and if he didn’t know the needs at OL and DL in 2018, he certainly knew them before the first game of his first season. He is supposed to be a master recruiter and talent evaluator. He has had time to plan and act.
There is no indication that he’s had more injuries or worse luck than any of his opponents. No one expected him to put together a mid-1980’s Washington Redskins offensive line in one season, but three years is enough to have a near-average line. He is in control of the roster. If he needed to recruit 7 linemen a year, he has the power to do that.
If transfers haven’t worked out, he placed the bets and is responsible for them coming in or not.

A number of posters have said it takes longer to build a team. Other coaches have gotten results faster.

Overall, he’s had time to build a team. Successful coaches usually show a turnaround in year 2 or year 3. He has not.
Since you brought up O’Leary, the team went 1-10 in 1994 when he took over for Lewis during the season. He went 6-5 the next season, and played 4 top 25 teams (winning against one).

If we just look at the ACC standings,
- We were tied for last in 2021 (we get the tiebreaker against Duke, so maybe second to last)
- We came in ahead of Duke and Syracuse in 2020
- We came in last in 2019

Surely, there’s an intermediate state in building an offensive line between coming in last and being a playoff-caliber team. I am not seeing a significant improvement in line play. Where has our line progressed since 2019?


It’s good that we have 3 DT commits that we need. Collins was brought here to recruit.

For what it’s worth, I think we’re getting good play out of the DEs.

We had two DT’s out sick on Saturday. But I don’t see how it’s an argument in Collins’ favor that DL play isn’t satisfactory after 3 years. I could even understand last season, but three seasons in, he owns it.


This makes no sense. Collins is here for team-building. Transfers aren’t forced on Collins. If they aren’t working out, then who is responsible? {That’s rhetorical}


Better in what way? It’s not just wins and losses, it’s hard to find a place where we’re doing better in PFF grades or yards per attempt or other areas.
If you did a film breakdown, where would we look technically better?
Enough other teams do well with young players on the line. NC State starts a freshman and two sophomores on the offensive line, and came in second in the ACC Atlantic this year. Wake Forest has plenty of underclassmen on the two deep. Miami has two sophomores starting on the OL.



There are posters on this board with various levels of expertise and experience playing. Some agree with you and some disagree with you. There are a number of knowledgeable posters who disagree with you.

Other programs definitely coach their players up. If you compare Clemson with FSU or Miami, it’s not just recruiting—it’s a difference in coaching. Recruiting is a huge thing, but it’s not the only thing. And if Clemson hadn’t coached their players up, they’d never have beaten Alabama. If Alabama hadn’t coached their players up, they’d have lost to other teams that had outrecruited them.

With Johnson, you took away the year that hurts your case, but you kept the year that helps it the most. If you’re going to throw out an outlier, 2015 was an unusually injury-laden and unlucky year. I agree that the last few years were trending down, but returning production is an argument for 2019, not 2020 or 2021. You can find plenty of teams that turn their fortunes with a recruiting class or two, including on the lines. While “get old, stay old” works really well for BYU, it’s not the only way to field a competitive team.

After three years, if we were towards the middle in points, or yards, or sacks, or other indicators of progress, I might agree with you. These have been three of the worst years of defense we’ve seen in the past 20 years—possibly longer. After the last two games, we might be worse than 2019.

Point of Fact: We finished 2 games ahead of Duke.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Yes, and they are the MAC conference champions.

And younger than us.

 

[snellvillejacket]

I will make it clear. I believe we were either equal or ahead on athletic talent compared to 7 teams on our schedule, and one of our wins was against a team (UNC) who has been out recruiting us.

Sure, you can look at Notre Dame and think “we have to improve our recruiting to compete with these guys”. There is no need to say that about Boston College.



I have defended a number of decisions that Collins has made, including taking a lot of transfers last season instead of offering more high school players.
Collins was hired in 2018, had some control over his first recruiting class, two full recruiting classes since then has pulled in transfers in almost every season, and if he didn’t know the needs at OL and DL in 2018, he certainly knew them before the first game of his first season. He is supposed to be a master recruiter and talent evaluator. He has had time to plan and act.
There is no indication that he’s had more injuries or worse luck than any of his opponents. No one expected him to put together a mid-1980’s Washington Redskins offensive line in one season, but three years is enough to have a near-average line. He is in control of the roster. If he needed to recruit 7 linemen a year, he has the power to do that.
If transfers haven’t worked out, he placed the bets and is responsible for them coming in or not.

A number of posters have said it takes longer to build a team. Other coaches have gotten results faster.

Overall, he’s had time to build a team. Successful coaches usually show a turnaround in year 2 or year 3. He has not.
Since you brought up O’Leary, the team went 1-10 in 1994 when he took over for Lewis during the season. He went 6-5 the next season, and played 4 top 25 teams (winning against one).

If we just look at the ACC standings,
- We were tied for last in 2021 (we get the tiebreaker against Duke, so maybe second to last)
- We came in ahead of Duke and Syracuse in 2020
- We came in last in 2019

Surely, there’s an intermediate state in building an offensive line between coming in last and being a playoff-caliber team. I am not seeing a significant improvement in line play. Where has our line progressed since 2019?


It’s good that we have 3 DT commits that we need. Collins was brought here to recruit.

For what it’s worth, I think we’re getting good play out of the DEs.

We had two DT’s out sick on Saturday. But I don’t see how it’s an argument in Collins’ favor that DL play isn’t satisfactory after 3 years. I could even understand last season, but three seasons in, he owns it.


This makes no sense. Collins is here for team-building. Transfers aren’t forced on Collins. If they aren’t working out, then who is responsible? {That’s rhetorical}


Better in what way? It’s not just wins and losses, it’s hard to find a place where we’re doing better in PFF grades or yards per attempt or other areas.
If you did a film breakdown, where would we look technically better?
Enough other teams do well with young players on the line. NC State starts a freshman and two sophomores on the offensive line, and came in second in the ACC Atlantic this year. Wake Forest has plenty of underclassmen on the two deep. Miami has two sophomores starting on the OL.



There are posters on this board with various levels of expertise and experience playing. Some agree with you and some disagree with you. There are a number of knowledgeable posters who disagree with you.

Other programs definitely coach their players up. If you compare Clemson with FSU or Miami, it’s not just recruiting—it’s a difference in coaching. Recruiting is a huge thing, but it’s not the only thing. And if Clemson hadn’t coached their players up, they’d never have beaten Alabama. If Alabama hadn’t coached their players up, they’d have lost to other teams that had outrecruited them.

With Johnson, you took away the year that hurts your case, but you kept the year that helps it the most. If you’re going to throw out an outlier, 2015 was an unusually injury-laden and unlucky year. I agree that the last few years were trending down, but returning production is an argument for 2019, not 2020 or 2021. You can find plenty of teams that turn their fortunes with a recruiting class or two, including on the lines. While “get old, stay old” works really well for BYU, it’s not the only way to field a competitive team.

After three years, if we were towards the middle in points, or yards, or sacks, or other indicators of progress, I might agree with you. These have been three of the worst years of defense we’ve seen in the past 20 years—possibly longer. After the last two games, we might be worse than 2019.

If our talent is equal to the other teams in the ACC, it will be interesting to see how we stack up on the all ACC teams. Not one senior will be on the honorable mention list. We don’t have a stud on either side of the ball other than Gibbs.