Offensive Tempo

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
Yes, but they are going to do that on 3rd and 15 with any team, even against Oregon. The refs will not signal ready and start the clock if substitutions are being made between downs.

If the offense doesn't make a substitution, they do indeed put the ball in play and signal ready. The only way the referees hold up play is if the offense makes a substitution. In that case, the defense is allowed to make one as well. Otherwise, the defense runs players out to sub at their own peril if the offense decides to snap the ball.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,409
If the offense doesn't make a substitution, they do indeed put the ball in play and signal ready. The only way the referees hold up play is if the offense makes a substitution. In that case, the defense is allowed to make one as well. Otherwise, the defense runs players out to sub at their own peril if the offense decides to snap the ball.
Defenses usually already know what personnel they are going to put in by third down based on the down and the distance. Subs are ready to come in and the refs will not put the ball down and signal the game clock while those subs are coming in. The only evidence I have of this is watching games on TV. I do know what the rules say. Now I am curious.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
Defenses usually already know what personnel they are going to put in by third down based on the down and the distance. Subs are ready to come in and the refs will not put the ball down and signal the game clock while those subs are coming in. The only evidence I have of this is watching games on TV. I do know what the rules say. Now I am curious.

That's incorrect. The referees put the ball in play as soon as the yardage markers are moved to the spot of the ball if the offense doesn't make a sub.

You mentioned Oregon. If you've watched them play, you know that they run to the LOS and get over the ball, then the whole team turns to look @ the sideline to get the play being signed in. In more than one situation, a defense will try to make a substitution and Oregon will snap the ball and get a free play because of too many men on the field.

Saban tried to get a rule put into play that would allow defenses to make substitutions within the first 10 seconds after a play ended but the rule didn't pass.

Link

Here's another article with the current ruling explained:
Link 2

The substitution challenges and tactics (depending on your side of the ball) introduced by hurry-up offenses are real. They were accentuated by a 2008 rule change that took the restrictor plates off those offenses. A defense being unable to substitute players because an offense won't let it is indeed a rule hack.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,409
That's incorrect. The referees put the ball in play as soon as the yardage markers are moved to the spot of the ball if the offense doesn't make a sub.

You mentioned Oregon. If you've watched them play, you know that they run to the LOS and get over the ball, then the whole team turns to look @ the sideline to get the play being signed in. In more than one situation, a defense will try to make a substitution and Oregon will snap the ball and get a free play because of too many men on the field.

Saban tried to get a rule put into play that would allow defenses to make substitutions within the first 10 seconds after a play ended but the rule didn't pass.

Link

Here's another article with the current ruling explained:
Link 2
I had read all of these already.

But I also read a blog for football referees, I think it was called Zebra Stripes. They describe in excruciating detail the the multiple check offs that the refs, back judges and umpires have to go through with each other before the ball can be snapped. It is quite eye opening. Without going into that excruciating detail the upshot of it was that hurry up offenses would like to run the next play within 15 seconds of the end of the previous play. The refs implied that is not going to happen sometimes unless the refs are missing multiple rule violations. So, more times than not it is going to take longer than 15 seconds, maybe not 30, which is what is legally required but certainly not 15.

In a different article responding to that, Mark Richt said that it was a pretty poor defensive coordinator who could not have his defensive substitutions ready to go on a key third down against a hurry up offense. But my original reason for offering my opinion still stands. I have watched plenty of TV games where the hurry up offense is ready to go and the ref is bending over with his hand on the ball looking around to make sure everything is set.

So, in one sense it does not matter what the rule says as much as it matters how the rule is actually enforced in real life. Come to think about it, that sounds a lot like the way it is with lots of laws in life.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,658
Just for the record, you don't have to go no huddle to stop the other team from substituting. You just can't make substitutes yourself. The other team can still attempt to make substitutes if you don't, but all you have to do in that case is snap the ball before that player gets off the field and you get a free 5 yards.

That's why I was saying that I would like to see us go to some method of signing in plays. You can still play at whatever tempo you wish but you can also stop the other guys from sending in fresh players, pass rush specialists, pure run stoppers, etc.

Agree - it just give the other team something to think about, allows for hurry up, possible offsides, gets coach to stop yelling inear hole ( thinking about game overall) -can use all the time if defense is crap or gassed
 
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