Offensive Scheme Q&A Thread

[cuttysark]

This GT triple option offense under the stewardship of Justin Thomas operating behind a rather large; athletic; and experienced offensive line is essentially impossible to stop. Add in a successfull pass completion of 20 yards here and there and a defense is helpless. The only way to defeat this offense is to stack the box, blitz the A and B gaps and hope to tackle the QB for a loss and get a few turnovers each game.

Short of that happening, this Yellow Jackets squad with Justin Thomas running this machine is a nightmare.

 

[Skeptic]

This GT triple option offense under the stewardship of Justin Thomas operating behind a rather large; athletic; and experienced offensive line is essentially impossible to stop. Add in a successfull pass completion of 20 yards here and there and a defense is helpless. The only way to defeat this offense is to stack the box, blitz the A and B gaps and hope to tackle the QB for a loss and get a few turnovers each game.

Short of that happening, this Yellow Jackets squad with Justin Thomas running this machine is a nightmare.

Before our euphoria has us ascending to football nirvana -- and I think it is a great offense for sure -- remember that Duke of all teams made it look silly at times and got Thomas pulled from the game, and Charles Kelly and FSU figured out enough of it midway through the third quarter into the fourth to get a commanding lead. Duke is simply inexplicable save the Kansas syndrome, but FSU is not. Better athletes can beat a better scheme, and they were/are loaded with them.

 

[PBR549]

Its not impossible to stop but it gives us the best chance to win.

 

[cuttysark]

Duke did not stop the Yellow Jackets; two interceptions and a fumble did that. GT moved the football up and down the field all day long then shot themselves in the foot twice inside the red zone and gave the Blue Devils the football inside their own red zone. Also, don't forget that Justin Thomas was just starting to learn the reads in this offense as Duke was early in the season.

Excuse me but Charles Kelly never figured out the offense. The lack of a pass rush allowed FSU to turn the game into a whoever has the ball last wins type of contest. Even with their superior athletes FSU still gave up a TD with about three minutes left when GT went 97 yards through the air in about 5 plays that took 90 seconds when the game appeared to be locked up for the Criminoles.

A nine point lead is hardly what anyone would call commanding as they needed to recover the onsides kick and get a first down to keep Tech from getting the football back. Superior athletes aside, their defense was shredded all game long on the ground. Just as ours was through the air.

 

[GTech63]

This GT triple option offense under the stewardship of Justin Thomas operating behind a rather large; athletic; and experienced offensive line is essentially impossible to stop. Add in a successfull pass completion of 20 yards here and there and a defense is helpless. The only way to defeat this offense is to stack the box, blitz the A and B gaps and hope to tackle the QB for a loss and get a few turnovers each game.

Short of that happening, this Yellow Jackets squad with Justin Thomas running this machine is a nightmare.

Yeah a hell of a nightmare, lost 3 games by total of 13 points with largest margin loss 6 points. Really nightmare losses??? BS.

 

[Skeptic]

Duke did not stop the Yellow Jackets; two interceptions and a fumble did that. GT moved the football up and down the field all day long then shot themselves in the foot twice inside the red zone and gave the Blue Devils the football inside their own red zone. Also, don't forget that Justin Thomas was just starting to learn the reads in this offense as Duke was early in the season.

Excuse me but Charles Kelly never figured out the offense. The lack of a pass rush allowed FSU to turn the game into a whoever has the ball last wins type of contest. Even with their superior athletes FSU still gave up a TD with about three minutes left when GT went 97 yards through the air in about 5 plays that took 90 seconds when the game appeared to be locked up for the Criminoles.

A nine point lead is hardly what anyone would call commanding as they needed to recover the onsides kick and get a first down to keep Tech from getting the football back. Superior athletes aside, their defense was shredded all game long on the ground. Just as ours was through the air.

We will agree to disagree. Interceptions and fumbles do not happen in a vacuum, and whatever the experience level of Thomas,

Duke did not stop the Yellow Jackets; two interceptions and a fumble did that. GT moved the football up and down the field all day long then shot themselves in the foot twice inside the red zone and gave the Blue Devils the football inside their own red zone. Also, don't forget that Justin Thomas was just starting to learn the reads in this offense as Duke was early in the season.

Excuse me but Charles Kelly never figured out the offense. The lack of a pass rush allowed FSU to turn the game into a whoever has the ball last wins type of contest. Even with their superior athletes FSU still gave up a TD with about three minutes left when GT went 97 yards through the air in about 5 plays that took 90 seconds when the game appeared to be locked up for the Criminoles.

A nine point lead is hardly what anyone would call commanding as they needed to recover the onsides kick and get a first down to keep Tech from getting the football back. Superior athletes aside, their defense was shredded all game long on the ground. Just as ours was through the air.

I will concede a point vs. FSU, but Duke? Fumbles and interceptions do not happen in a vacuum, the defense generally having something to do with that, nor do false starts in the red zone just happen, the first clue we were in for a long day, and I am trying to recall since I lost my VCR recording of the game. Nor was Thomas lifted because he was having a great day, and it took two late TDs from Byerly to make it close. While I concede I overreached on my verb selection for the 2nd half lead, though they got a stop to make it nine points as the breakpoint for GT. That is a two score lead. And yes, if we could have recovered the onside, or failing that, if we could have stopped them without a first down, and if we could have put together another long but quick drive, failing that, if we got another long field goal at the end, well, you have a point. There's just an awfully high "if" mountain to climb. We didn't.

None of this is to say I necessarily disagree with the other post, just urging some caution before crowning a national champion. I like the offense. I even agree that Johnson wasn't blowing too much smoke when he told one of the TV broadcasters that if the quarterback made the right read every time, the offense is unstoppable. But you see, there is that "if" again. Asking 100%, zero defects, from any QB means he could turn water to wine, particularly when that first read in the triple is made in less than a second. That is almost stock car driver reaction at 180 mph. So what would you reasonably figure? 60%? 75%? (Keeping in mind the D guys and DCs are not wearing dunce caps, and those Bback dives being met headon in the hole is not bad running.)

Way too windy a response and I apologize. We're on the same team if not the same page.

 

[cuttysark]

If the defense keeps improving under Ted Roof they will become known as the Maytag Repairmen of college football with this offense keeping them off the field with the time of possession advantage a ball control offense creates, as opposed to Oregon with their snap the ball every 16 seconds.

Fumbles created by a tackler trucking a RB is much different than putting the ball on the ground through an unforced error like a tennis match. The interceptions at Duke were the result of a young sophomore QB making a bad decision, not a phenominal play by a DB. It has nothing to do with a vacum; it's called learning and getting better at recognizing reads.

Maybe you should ask the MSU defenders about this offense. Nothing was said about a National Championship. That is going to require some more improvement on defense, which appears to be in the works.

A nightmare loss is getting blown out in a game. Nobody shut down this offense last year so not sure what that refers to?

 

[Skeptic]

If the defense keeps improving under Ted Roof they will become known as the Maytag Repairmen of college football with this offense keeping them off the field with the time of possession advantage a ball control offense creates, as opposed to Oregon with their snap the ball every 16 seconds.

Fumbles created by a tackler trucking a RB is much different than putting the ball on the ground through an unforced error like a tennis match. The interceptions at Duke were the result of a young sophomore QB making a bad decision, not a phenominal play by a DB. It has nothing to do with a vacum; it's called learning and getting better at recognizing reads.

Maybe you should ask the MSU defenders about this offense. Nothing was said about a National Championship. That is going to require some more improvement on defense, which appears to be in the works.

A nightmare loss is getting blown out in a game. Nobody shut down this offense last year so not sure what that refers to?

Okay, and then I am done. I haven't criticized the offense; to the contrary, it is a great offense. The fact remains FSU got a stop in the 2nd quarter to get the lead for the first time, and another maybe midway through the 4th on a 4th and long then a FG to take a one-score game to a two score game with time running out. One might argue that most INTs are bad QB decisions. Can't speak for anybody else, but for sure, Kansas, MTSU and Duke were all nightmare losses. Every one of 'em because they should not have happened, whether by a FG or three TDs. We may differ on interpretions, but losing any game we should have won is to me a nightmare.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Maybe we need some holdout "skeptics" around to keep our expectations from rising beyond the stratosphere

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Every team has a down week...see OSU vs VPI. I could cite that game as example that their O can be made to look silly also. If you want to examine our O I suggest you look how it competed year long. And that was at an amazingly elite level. I further invite you to look at their performance vs the best Ds we saw. Clemson was the best D in the nation last year IMO. They played well against us but never made us look silly.

 

[Skeptic]

Back to the purpose of the thread, for stylee: I had not realized how Johnson almost discarded the triple option in the second half until I began to count this afternoon. The first three drives, all scores, had 10 B back dives, one pass, a rollout, incomplete, one triple option, to Perkins, and two QB scores on keepers after faking the dive, aside from the triple, the only fakes through those scores. The rest were straight handoffs to Days or Laskey, running to the weak side of the defense. But every one of them was run over the tackle gap, not center-guard. Everyone seemed straight up, power football. Obviously Johnson and staff saw stuff in the first half that had them scrap, temporarily at least, any pretense of option football ... until they went for scores by the QB, whose number I will get if he ever slows down.

What is the play, and was each of them the same play, run to different sides? What did Johnson see at halftime adjustment? Was something unusual going on in line blocking? If so, shoot, that far into the second half we used only three plays instead of our budgeted quota of six.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Maybe we need some holdout "skeptics" around to keep our expectations from rising beyond the stratosphere

I'll play the role of skeptic. The way I count it, there are 3 games we could have easily lost but didn't (GSU, VT, uga). We lose all three of those and we are 7-5 with a loss to Southern. Now we all know that didn't happen, but we were a few ball bounces away from a not so great season.

Now, look at the schedule for next year. @ ND; @ Duke; UNC; @ Climpson; Pitt; FSU; VT; @UM; uga. Those are NINE very losable games. With bad luck, we could easily go 3-9 next year. I don't think we will, but we will have to beat each one of those teams - none of them are going to give us a win. And who knows, uva could be back in force and we seldom do well at Scott Stadium.

In fact, we could easily go 8-4 next year, but have a better team, just because of how much more difficult the schedule is. Ultimately I expected 7, maybe 8 wins last year. I don't know that I will expect too much more next year - maybe up to 8, maybe 9 wins. I think we will probably be underdogs in at least 3 games, maybe more.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Back to the purpose of the thread, for stylee: I had not realized how Johnson almost discarded the triple option in the second half until I began to count this afternoon. The first three drives, all scores, had 10 B back dives, one pass, a rollout, incomplete, one triple option, to Perkins, and two QB scores on keepers after faking the dive, aside from the triple, the only fakes through those scores. The rest were straight handoffs to Days or Laskey, running to the weak side of the defense. But every one of them was run over the tackle gap, not center-guard. Everyone seemed straight up, power football. Obviously Johnson and staff saw stuff in the first half that had them scrap, temporarily at least, any pretense of option football ... until they went for scores by the QB, whose number I will get if he ever slows down.

What is the play, and was each of them the same play, run to different sides? What did Johnson see at halftime adjustment? Was something unusual going on in line blocking? If so, shoot, that far into the second half we used only three plays instead of our budgeted quota of six.

Just because its a BB run does not make it a dive play. Most of what we'd be running were Belly plays.

 

[Skeptic]

Just because its a BB run does not make it a dive play. Most of what we'd be running were Belly plays.

Well, I have watched the offense long enough to get that. Except go back and look. both in the 2nd half of Georgia and 2nd half of MSU there was no pretense of an option: Thomas handing off, not with two hands on the ball, but one, and not on the LOS, but two yards deep, and the B backs hitting the gap.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Well, I have watched the offense long enough to get that. Except go back and look. both in the 2nd half of Georgia and 2nd half of MSU there was no pretense of an option: Thomas handing off, not with two hands on the ball, but one, and not on the LOS, but two yards deep, and the B backs hitting the gap.

Big difference between saying that we had abandoned the option v. were running a dive every play.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Agree we could easily have lost several more last year than we did. Likewise we could have won several more the past few years that we didn't. It's rarely as good or bad as most usually think. I do believe we will be an overal better team next year. What will the final record be? Anyones guess. My guess for last year was 9 wins. I will bump that by one win this coming year and expect 10. We shall see. Go Jackets!! THWG!!

 

[Skeptic]

Big difference between saying that we had abandoned the option v. were running a dive every play.

Look, not to prolong a spat that must bore everybody to tears, but I did not write that we "abandoned" it. I said we "essentially" abandoned it, then itemized the slants/dives/options the first three drives of the second half. Can't remember now but I think there was one rocket toss, one option, one or two QB keepers, and the rest were Days/Laskey driving off the tackle hole. My question(s) had to do with what was the play being called, what did Johnson see in the first half that he blew Georgia and MSU up in the second -- I am not conversant enough with line blocking and arc blocking to figure it out, though having Mason pull down the line was key to it I think -- and then the unanswerable question: why on god's earth did not MSU do something, anything, to counter it? Up to and including throwing the cheerleaders into the fray.

 

[Dustman]

Look, not to prolong a spat that must bore everybody to tears, but I did not write that we "abandoned" it. I said we "essentially" abandoned it, then itemized the slants/dives/options the first three drives of the second half. Can't remember now but I think there was one rocket toss, one option, one or two QB keepers, and the rest were Days/Laskey driving off the tackle hole. My question(s) had to do with what was the play being called, what did Johnson see in the first half that he blew Georgia and MSU up in the second -- I am not conversant enough with line blocking and arc blocking to figure it out, though having Mason pull down the line was key to it I think -- and then the unanswerable question: why on god's earth did not MSU do something, anything, to counter it? Up to and including throwing the cheerleaders into the fray.

It's a good discussion. I believe what he saw was over zealous defenders trying to blow up the pitch. The belly play took advantage of that because the defender on the edge kept running himself right out of the play.

 

[Skeptic]

It's a good discussion. I believe what he saw was over zealous defenders trying to blow up the pitch. The belly play took advantage of that because the defender on the edge kept running himself right out of the play.

You're right. The ends were crashing into the pitch lanes for sure, maybe biting on the quick motion of the A back, and leaving a gap. But look carefully at the handoff -- where it occurs, no attempt at deception at all, just a straight handoff to the B back, no fake pitch. Unless I am not seeing it, there is no belly series at work. It was just smash mouth football.

 

[AE 87]

You're right. The ends were crashing into the pitch lanes for sure, maybe biting on the quick motion of the A back, and leaving a gap. But look carefully at the handoff -- where it occurs, no attempt at deception at all, just a straight handoff to the B back, no fake pitch. Unless I am not seeing it, there is no belly series at work. It was just smash mouth football.

Well, to get it back to schem, Belly is a straight bback give. Belly Option is a qb-aback double option with bback as blocker.