Northwestern South ??

[GTNavyNuke]

My question is this. What are the major differences between us and Virginia Tech? Do they offer more variety of degrees than we do???

I don't think anyone responded to you. I went to high school in Virginia and considered UVA and VT before choosing GT.

VT has generally lower caliber student than UVA, but they have a solid engineering department. However, VT has a very large degree offering: https://vt.edu/academics/majors.html
With majors like "Liberal Arts (undecided)", "Communication Studies, ", and "University Studies (undecided)"; I think it is safe to say they have a much wider offering than GT.

Both my kids looked at VT and UVa. VT has the more "basic" or "application" oriented engineering - Civil, mechanical etc. UVa has the more "theoretical" engineering programs - Physics, Nanotech, etc. Also, VT was like 20% engineering with large teacher and agriculture programs along with social sciences.

VT is a very easy school to get through if you pick the right major. Many non-engineering students regularly start the weekend on Thursday night according to my son's engineering friends who have graduated from there.

As always, the benefit of a college degree is worth what you put in it. You can get a great education at most any engineering college if you work hard enough at it and don't just do enough to slide by. (Old Dominion here in Tidewater Va turns out great engineers).

It's just a harder to slide by at GT given the curve and academic competitiveness of the students.

 

[4shotB]

It's just a harder to slide by at GT given the curve and academic competitiveness of the students.

On a side note, i have always wondered if I could have gotten through the grind of engineering at a Clemson. Auburn, VT, etc. At Tech, since the vast majority of students were engineers or CS, everyone was pretty much in the same boat and grinding hard. (The architect majors were insane). I think it would be(for me) more difficult, especially as FR or SOPH in a dorm, to keep my nose to the grindstone when almost everyone else was taking a less rigorous course load and heading out for the social scene every night. The allure of Atlanta and all it had to offer was temptation enough to make 'getting out" a risky proposition at times for me during those first 2 years.

 

[Vespidae]

The allure of Atlanta and all it had to offer was temptation enough to make 'getting out" a risky proposition at times for me during those first 2 years.

Many of my high school buddies went to Auburn for engineering whereas I went to Tech. They all flamed out ... did not graduate. I was on Dean's List. Tech was harder .... but also has a better system for teaching engineering.

 

[Vespidae]

Of Tech's current football roster, 54% study business administration, 28% study engineering, 9% study literature/media, and 7% all other. Seven have already earned bachelor’s degrees and are pursuing masters. Two-thirds are from GA. Just scanning the list makes me think ... we should be doing Moneyball.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Don’t all the football players take calculus at Kennesaw St or other community colleges anyway? If so, not sure what the big deal is.If not, fire up the bus and take them there for calculus. Go up the road, get your C, transfer in your credit and move along.

2nd action item- run off petersen and replace him with someone that (a) can run a large organization without getting publicly humiliated by a mutt and (b) doesn’t hate non-tennis/golf and similar sport athletics.

 

[MWBATL]

It’s gets back to the mission of the school, at least in my opinion.

We say we are creating the “tomorrow takers” as a school. That requires a baseline understanding of math and science. I know there is a knock on the Institute for being “elitist”, so I hope this doesn’t come off that way, but we are - by virtue of our charter and the alumni who have come before the current study body - committed to building the leaders of tomorrow.

I, along with many of our fellow graduates, believe in that mission. We believe that it requires educating young men and women beyond the minimum and preparing them for a lifetime of progress and service.

On top of that I hope for, and donate money to support, the notion of excellence in all areas we endeavor to compete in. I’m far more comfortable upping the ante of my support than I am entertaining a reduction in academic standards for the sake of competitiveness in sport. The mission of Georgia Tech is education, first and foremost.

As some of the posters above have said, if we decide on the grounds of academic achievement and advancement, to include additional majors then I support it full stop. If, however; we are chasing the ghost of recruiting players who won’t be able to handle the academic workload we expect today, then I would suggest we have lost our way. Our mission as a place of higher learning should not be tarnished by other school’s disregard for their own responsibilities. There is something painfully noble about Don Quixote’s commitment to tilting at windmills and it feels appropriate as a reference to our current situation.


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As we say in the South...."why, bless your heart!" That's just so *sweet*! Unicorns and rainbows everywhere.

Reality is if you continue down that path you WILL become Tulane playing in front of 20,000 disheartened fans with a schedule that is third rate. You simply wish to close your eyes and ignore the current realities of college football. You either are living in a fantasy world or living in the past...neither of which exist today.

The reality is in front of you. It is on the field every Saturday now for one and all to see.

Changing coaches, while it may satisfy some in the fan base for a couple of years, will not change the fundamental realities of this football program, BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS ARE REALLY NOT THE COACHES'.

Could we recruit better? Maybe, a little bit....but NOT like we did even 15 years ago. The world of college football has changed and keeps changing.

Could we call plays better or run a better program? Maybe a little bit.

But until you admit TO YOURSELVES that the world of college football is not what you would want it to be, the fundamental problems will not be addressed. Any success will be "flash in the pan" situations like Calvin Johnson or Shaq Mason were. Those are not repeatable. They are random.

The "academic integrity" argument is indeed what is causing GT to decline....whether it is being made by the Hill or the fan base.

NO ONE (at least not me) is arguing for outright cheating. Expanding our curriculum would broaden the school in so many ways it would be helpful all the way around. Do you not think the "nerds" at GT would benefit from seeing more artists and BA majors on campus who help broaden their understanding of the real world we live in today? I do. Going from 35 majors to 120 would be GOOD for GT, as well as its football program.

 

[boger2337]

As we say in the South...."why, bless your heart!" That's just so *sweet*! Unicorns and rainbows everywhere.

Reality is if you continue down that path you WILL become Tulane playing in front of 20,000 disheartened fans with a schedule that is third rate. You simply wish to close your eyes and ignore the current realities of college football. You either are living in a fantasy world or living in the past...neither of which exist today.

The reality is in front of you. It is on the field every Saturday now for one and all to see.

Changing coaches, while it may satisfy some in the fan base for a couple of years, will not change the fundamental realities of this football program, BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS ARE REALLY NOT THE COACHES'.

Could we recruit better? Maybe, a little bit....but NOT like we did even 15 years ago. The world of college football has changed and keeps changing.

Could we call plays better or run a better program? Maybe a little bit.

But until you admit TO YOURSELVES that the world of college football is not what you would want it to be, the fundamental problems will not be addressed. Any success will be "flash in the pan" situations like Calvin Johnson or Shaq Mason were. Those are not repeatable. They are random.

The "academic integrity" argument is indeed what is causing GT to decline....whether it is being made by the Hill or the fan base.

NO ONE (at least not me) is arguing for outright cheating. Expanding our curriculum would broaden the school in so many ways it would be helpful all the way around. Do you not think the "nerds" at GT would benefit from seeing more artists and BA majors on campus who help broaden their understanding of the real world we live in today? I do. Going from 35 majors to 120 would be GOOD for GT, as well as its football program.

I'm a firm believer in being well rounded. I work with a majority of Tech grads, and they are as we would say rather much the same. (Dont crucify me for this). Most dress the same way and have the same personality to an extent on a spectrum. I do believe because I forced myself to be around a vastly different group of people growing up and in school, I am better fit to work with a more diverse group of people. At work they seem to struggle with communication and social settings. More than likely due to forgoing all social events in school to earn that difficult degree. I believe with all I am GT needs to understand the VALUE of a social setting, and creating weird strange memories with fellow students. Like getting too drunk on a Tuesday night and showing up to class with 2 friends 30 seconds before an exam to barely pass. Those things create bond, and hopefully understand to never do that again! Haha

 

[MWBATL]

I'm a firm believer in being well rounded. I work with a majority of Tech grads, and they are as we would say rather much the same. (Dont crucify me for this). Most dress the same way and have the same personality to an extent on a spectrum. I do believe because I forced myself to be around a vastly different group of people growing up and in school, I am better fit to work with a more diverse group of people. At work they seem to struggle with communication and social settings. More than likely due to forgoing all social events in school to earn that difficult degree. I believe with all I am GT needs to understand the VALUE of a social setting, and creating weird strange memories with fellow students. Like getting too drunk on a Tuesday night and showing up to class with 2 friends 30 seconds before an exam to barely pass. Those things create bond, and hopefully understand to never do that again! Haha

Well, you know what the girls who attend GT say...don't you? (My daughter 'got out' 3 years ago.)

"The odds are good, but the goods are odd."

More BA programs would help in so many ways.....

 

[boger2337]

Well, you know what the girls who attend GT say...don't you? (My daughter 'got out' 3 years ago.)

"The odds are good, but the goods are odd."

More BA programs would help in so many ways.....

Hahaha yessss!!!

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

The one thing I continue to not understand about our fanbase is its need to compare itself against private schools. Duke, Stanford, and Northwestern are all private schools with complete control over the course, degree, and admissions. GT operates in a whole different universe needing to not only convince "The Hill" but also the Georgia Board of Regents. The closest school I can even think to compare us to would be Purdue, and even they have college of liberal arts with acting, creative writing, etc. majors.

A lot of the changes users seems to be requesting are really only going to happen if GT chooses to become private. I personally have no idea what the benefit/cost would be of that, so I can't speak to it.

Maybe I should have titled it " Purdue

As we say in the South...."why, bless your heart!" That's just so *sweet*! Unicorns and rainbows everywhere.

Reality is if you continue down that path you WILL become Tulane playing in front of 20,000 disheartened fans with a schedule that is third rate. You simply wish to close your eyes and ignore the current realities of college football. You either are living in a fantasy world or living in the past...neither of which exist today.

The reality is in front of you. It is on the field every Saturday now for one and all to see.

Changing coaches, while it may satisfy some in the fan base for a couple of years, will not change the fundamental realities of this football program, BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS ARE REALLY NOT THE COACHES'.

Could we recruit better? Maybe, a little bit....but NOT like we did even 15 years ago. The world of college football has changed and keeps changing.

Could we call plays better or run a better program? Maybe a little bit.

But until you admit TO YOURSELVES that the world of college football is not what you would want it to be, the fundamental problems will not be addressed. Any success will be "flash in the pan" situations like Calvin Johnson or Shaq Mason were. Those are not repeatable. They are random.

The "academic integrity" argument is indeed what is causing GT to decline....whether it is being made by the Hill or the fan base.

NO ONE (at least not me) is arguing for outright cheating. Expanding our curriculum would broaden the school in so many ways it would be helpful all the way around. Do you not think the "nerds" at GT would benefit from seeing more artists and BA majors on campus who help broaden their understanding of the real world we live in today? I do. Going from 35 majors to 120 would be GOOD for GT, as well as its football program.

Congratulations !! I think this is the best post I may ever have read on this subject. College athletics has changed so much in the last 10-15 years ! Guess what , COLLEGE has changed , too. Remember when there were only MEN engineers ?? Suppose we still only admitted men ?? THINGS CHANGE ! IF you want to continue to be - or get back to being - competitive, sometimes you change in a good way , and sometimes in a not so good ( but definitely not illegal ) way. We need to get over ourselves and face reality !

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

It’s gets back to the mission of the school, at least in my opinion.

We say we are creating the “tomorrow takers” as a school. That requires a baseline understanding of math and science. I know there is a knock on the Institute for being “elitist”, so I hope this doesn’t come off that way, but we are - by virtue of our charter and the alumni who have come before the current study body - committed to building the leaders of tomorrow.

I, along with many of our fellow graduates, believe in that mission. We believe that it requires educating young men and women beyond the minimum and preparing them for a lifetime of progress and service.

On top of that I hope for, and donate money to support, the notion of excellence in all areas we endeavor to compete in. I’m far more comfortable upping the ante of my support than I am entertaining a reduction in academic standards for the sake of competitiveness in sport. The mission of Georgia Tech is education, first and foremost.

As some of the posters above have said, if we decide on the grounds of academic achievement and advancement, to include additional majors then I support it full stop. If, however; we are chasing the ghost of recruiting players who won’t be able to handle the academic workload we expect today, then I would suggest we have lost our way. Our mission as a place of higher learning should not be tarnished by other school’s disregard for their own responsibilities. There is something painfully noble about Don Quixote’s commitment to tilting at windmills and it feels appropriate as a reference to our current situation.


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I am not a graduate of the Institute, though my father was (class of 1950 Textile Engineering) but for all my yapping about easing the curriculum to enhance to some undetermined degree recruiting I am of the opinion that Tech people especially alumni should embrace (yes you heard right) the idea of elitist. Do those of you who are students, and alumni really want to be like UGA? Grown men barking like dogs? I am just a sidewalk fan. It's your school, your legacy, your traditions, hallowed though they may be, embrace these things and do what is necessary to be competitive in football. Recruit nationally, invest in finding players who want what you have already achieved. Expensive? Sure, but you guys are supposed to have deep pockets.

Most of the complaining about the curriculum restrictions, the calculus thing, etc. is about the absolute travesty of it going all the way back to the 1950s when Dodd reeled off 8 straight wins. The calculus requirement was then implemented to ensure such a thing never again would happen to the state flagship university. Since that time, UGA has taken firm control of what had been a competitive series but in the 60 plus years of utter state dominance they have won only a handful of SEC titles and one count em one national title. Serves them right.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Ok I have a slightly different take on this and I’ll say it again. We need to make this work the GT way. Many business majors do not need calculus. Most don’t need GT’s calculus if you know what I mean. Many Engineers don’t even need GT’s calculus quite frankly.

We need to leverage our strengths. Here’s a list of things we should be #1 at due to our unique blend:

A. Sports equipment- nobody should have a better shoe (cleat), a lighter or more shock resistant set of pads, a helmet that minimizes the chance of concussion. We design these freaking things and select the materials for this stuff for heavan’s sake, not some moron up the road sniffing his butt.

B. Sport science- nobody should be able to design a better workout regimen to increase strength, speed and flexibility. You freaking kidding me some toothless wonder from Bammer can our analyze the dynamics ????

C. Crap our IE’s should produce reams of data optimizing play selections against anyone we play in any situation. Our freaking statistical capabilities should be head and shoulders above the rest.

D. Technology - we should be a showcase. Video boards, wifi, tablets, sound, freaking LINES AT THE CONCESSIONS STANDS. We should have the best of everything because we know how to design equipment, processes, etc.

E. Entertainment- you telling me we should be able to line up celebrities to perform in and around campus to enhance the gameday experience. They perform all around us.

F. Should anybody be any better at designing methods to take under skilled students and train them up than GT? Most of these kids just come from bad schools, they’re not dumb. They should be able to thrive here with state of the art educational tools.

Geez, the list goes on. we just don’t have leadership that cares enough to lift a finger to do anything. That’s the sad reality. They line the status quo in athletics and only care about academics.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Look, as much as I admire Coach Dodd, you cannot equate what he did to today's college football game. Coach Dodd recruited mainly for single platoon football. If you could recruit 4-5 studs, you'd have a very good team. Now, you have to recruit 20 per year. Additionally, the Atlanta sports/entertainment market was vastly different in the 50's to mid 60's than it is today. Thus, Vespidae's final sentence "But you can't solve today's problems with yesterday's methods" is the absolute TRUTH!

Absolutely correct which is why Coach Dodd retired when he did. He could see the changes being wrought by pro teams, integration, etc. and knew it was time to move on. A wise man in many ways. I would like to disagree with you about one thing. He made it very clear in his autobiography that he hated one platoon football because it imposed severe limitations on the offense. It reduced football to a matter of out hitting and out conditioning the other team. He was very good at finding players who could specialize in doing one thing and using them effectively. Way ahead of his time in that regard.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

At the same time Auburn was changing its name, Tech was too. From the Georgia School of Technology to the Georgia Institute of Technology ... with a strong emphasis on "research" and not just "application". This was in 1948.

Yep. that was when my dad was at Tech and he thought it to be much ado about nothing but later he came to appreciate being a graduate of "the Institute" and not some ubiquitous university.

 

[Vespidae]

Yep. that was when my dad was at Tech and he thought it to be much ado about nothing but later he came to appreciate being a graduate of "the Institute" and not some ubiquitous university.

I remember being in an engineering meeting many years ago when my boss addressed the team of 12. Getting opinions on stress, strain, modulus of elasticity .... and after all has been said, turns to me and asks, "Ok, that's what they think. What's Georgia Tech say on the subject?" You could actually hear the steam coming out of 24 ears ...

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

It’s gets back to the mission of the school, at least in my opinion.

We say we are creating the “tomorrow takers” as a school. That requires a baseline understanding of math and science. I know there is a knock on the Institute for being “elitist”, so I hope this doesn’t come off that way, but we are - by virtue of our charter and the alumni who have come before the current study body - committed to building the leaders of tomorrow.

I, along with many of our fellow graduates, believe in that mission. We believe that it requires educating young men and women beyond the minimum and preparing them for a lifetime of progress and service.

On top of that I hope for, and donate money to support, the notion of excellence in all areas we endeavor to compete in. I’m far more comfortable upping the ante of my support than I am entertaining a reduction in academic standards for the sake of competitiveness in sport. The mission of Georgia Tech is education, first and foremost.

As some of the posters above have said, if we decide on the grounds of academic achievement and advancement, to include additional majors then I support it full stop. If, however; we are chasing the ghost of recruiting players who won’t be able to handle the academic workload we expect today, then I would suggest we have lost our way. Our mission as a place of higher learning should not be tarnished by other school’s disregard for their own responsibilities. There is something painfully noble about Don Quixote’s commitment to tilting at windmills and it feels appropriate as a reference to our current situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This makes a lot of sense. Increase additional majors to further academic achievement is something that can be done to ease the bottleneck of such a rigid curriculum that is currently hampering our recruiting. For the present, it is of paramount importance to develop relationships with high school coaches in state, massively increase our recruiting footprint on a national basis which will require a huge investment in money and personnel, and do a much better job of player development.

 

[GT_05]

Ok I have a slightly different take on this and I’ll say it again. We need to make this work the GT way. Many business majors do not need calculus. Most don’t need GT’s calculus if you know what I mean. Many Engineers don’t even need GT’s calculus quite frankly.

We need to leverage our strengths. Here’s a list of things we should be #1 at due to our unique blend:

A. Sports equipment- nobody should have a better shoe (cleat), a lighter or more shock resistant set of pads, a helmet that minimizes the chance of concussion. We design these freaking things and select the materials for this stuff for heavan’s sake, not some moron up the road sniffing his butt.

B. Sport science- nobody should be able to design a better workout regimen to increase strength, speed and flexibility. You freaking kidding me some toothless wonder from Bammer can our analyze the dynamics ????

C. Crap our IE’s should produce reams of data optimizing play selections against anyone we play in any situation. Our freaking statistical capabilities should be head and shoulders above the rest.

D. Technology - we should be a showcase. Video boards, wifi, tablets, sound, freaking LINES AT THE CONCESSIONS STANDS. We should have the best of everything because we know how to design equipment, processes, etc.

E. Entertainment- you telling me we should be able to line up celebrities to perform in and around campus to enhance the gameday experience. They perform all around us.

F. Should anybody be any better at designing methods to take under skilled students and train them up than GT? Most of these kids just come from bad schools, they’re not dumb. They should be able to thrive here with state of the art educational tools.

Geez, the list goes on. we just don’t have leadership that cares enough to lift a finger to do anything. That’s the sad reality. They line the status quo in athletics and only care about academics.

I agree with most of this and I really like “C”. I like CPJ and I like his offense but I don’t like that he walks around without a play sheet. He has enough data points over his tenure that he could have a play sheet that shows him how each play has performed in numerous game situations. This might help him take the ego and riverboat gambler out of his play calling.


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[MidtownJacket]

I am not a graduate of the Institute, though my father was (class of 1950 Textile Engineering) but for all my yapping about easing the curriculum to enhance to some undetermined degree recruiting I am of the opinion that Tech people especially alumni should embrace (yes you heard right) the idea of elitist. Do those of you who are students, and alumni really want to be like UGA? Grown men barking like dogs? I am just a sidewalk fan. It's your school, your legacy, your traditions, hallowed though they may be, embrace these things and do what is necessary to be competitive in football. Recruit nationally, invest in finding players who want what you have already achieved. Expensive? Sure, but you guys are supposed to have deep pockets.

Most of the complaining about the curriculum restrictions, the calculus thing, etc. is about the absolute travesty of it going all the way back to the 1950s when Dodd reeled off 8 straight wins. The calculus requirement was then implemented to ensure such a thing never again would happen to the state flagship university. Since that time, UGA has taken firm control of what had been a competitive series but in the 60 plus years of utter state dominance they have won only a handful of SEC titles and one count em one national title. Serves them right.

I think there is absolutely a sense of accomplishment and pride that comes from attending and finishing Ga Tech. I know that when I do recruiting I heavily weigh quality of school in my initial evaluation of candidates. It is a bias that has held true after interviewing well into the hundreds of candidates for roles and positions at the companies I have worked for (IBM, HP, PwC). I don't think there is value in looking down on people, but protecting the value of the degree is important in my opinion. I have said it before, and will say it again - this is COLLEGE athletics. I don't follow Ga Tech because of the sports team, but instead because of the school. I appreciate that not everyone feels the same way. That's fine. As an alumni though I will continue to donate and voice my position to the school.

I DO really buy into the notion of us attacking recruiting in a GaTech way. Focusing on the moneyball aspects, better targeted and wider distributed recruiting pools, better gear, better tech to support training and workouts, better game day experience and throwing real investment at the problems we face is to me the best and only way forward.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I think there is absolutely a sense of accomplishment and pride that comes from attending and finishing Ga Tech. I know that when I do recruiting I heavily weigh quality of school in my initial evaluation of candidates. It is a bias that has held true after interviewing well into the hundreds of candidates for roles and positions at the companies I have worked for (IBM, HP, PwC). I don't think there is value in looking down on people, but protecting the value of the degree is important in my opinion. I have said it before, and will say it again - this is COLLEGE athletics. I don't follow Ga Tech because of the sports team, but instead because of the school. I appreciate that not everyone feels the same way. That's fine. As an alumni though I will continue to donate and voice my position to the school.

I DO really buy into the notion of us attacking recruiting in a GaTech way. Focusing on the moneyball aspects, better targeted and wider distributed recruiting pools, better gear, better tech to support training and workouts, better game day experience and throwing real investment at the problems we face is to me the best and only way forward.

That is what I mean. I am just not smart enough to come up with the right terminology. "moneyball" captures the essence of what we should be doing.

 

[MidtownJacket]

Ok I have a slightly different take on this and I’ll say it again. We need to make this work the GT way. Many business majors do not need calculus. Most don’t need GT’s calculus if you know what I mean. Many Engineers don’t even need GT’s calculus quite frankly.

We need to leverage our strengths. Here’s a list of things we should be #1 at due to our unique blend:

A. Sports equipment- nobody should have a better shoe (cleat), a lighter or more shock resistant set of pads, a helmet that minimizes the chance of concussion. We design these freaking things and select the materials for this stuff for heavan’s sake, not some moron up the road sniffing his butt.

B. Sport science- nobody should be able to design a better workout regimen to increase strength, speed and flexibility. You freaking kidding me some toothless wonder from Bammer can our analyze the dynamics ????

C. Crap our IE’s should produce reams of data optimizing play selections against anyone we play in any situation. Our freaking statistical capabilities should be head and shoulders above the rest.

D. Technology - we should be a showcase. Video boards, wifi, tablets, sound, freaking LINES AT THE CONCESSIONS STANDS. We should have the best of everything because we know how to design equipment, processes, etc.

E. Entertainment- you telling me we should be able to line up celebrities to perform in and around campus to enhance the gameday experience. They perform all around us.

F. Should anybody be any better at designing methods to take under skilled students and train them up than GT? Most of these kids just come from bad schools, they’re not dumb. They should be able to thrive here with state of the art educational tools.

Geez, the list goes on. we just don’t have leadership that cares enough to lift a finger to do anything. That’s the sad reality. They line the status quo in athletics and only care about academics.

Thank you for this, it was a great write up, and far more thorough than I have been about ways we can compete without abandoning academics.