Nomenclature in Football

[Northeast Stinger]

Well, yes, that was the usual nomenclature. But we called the position TB. Part of the general weirdness of our O.

I always wondered if TB became the term because of the power-I formation?

Also, my memory of the term “running back” is that this became the term in pro ball years ago when everyone was running a kind of vanilla offense with no distinctive formation. If you had two backs one might be called a full back or H back but generally they were just RBs.

 

[takethepoints]

I always wondered if TB became the term because of the power-I formation?

Also, my memory of the term “running back” is that this became the term in pro ball years ago when everyone was running a kind of vanilla offense with no distinctive formation. If you had two backs one might be called a full back or H back but generally they were just RBs.

1. Well, we called him a TB and so did Tommy Prothro when he ran the single wing. And, yes, the Rb in an I was called the TB. I think.

2. I think you are right. It depended, however. The Falcons called William Andrews a FB and Lynn Cain an HB when they ran a prototypical pro set. But, hey, nobody would ever call William anything else. Lord, I loved to watch that man run.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

1. Well, we called him a TB and so did Tommy Prothro when he ran the single wing. And, yes, the Rb in an I was called the TB. I think.

2. I think you are right. It depended, however. The Falcons called William Andrews a FB and Lynn Cain an HB when they ran a prototypical pro set. But, hey, nobody would ever call William anything else. Lord, I loved to watch that man run.

Never never could I ever figure out how somebody who was 205 pounds could run over people like a 235 RB. He didn’t have that reputation at Auburn and was mainly a blocker but the Falcons had bigger backs in their history who did not run as hard.

 

[DeepSnap]

1. Well, we called him a TB and so did Tommy Prothro when he ran the single wing. And, yes, the Rb in an I was called the TB. I think.

The Single Wing most closely resembled today's regular spread formation.

Yes, there was a Wingback, usually lined up like one of CPJ's A-Backs. The player who was called the Quarterback would today look like the opposite A-Back or a close/tight Slotback.

The Fullback lined up next to the Tailback. What did the Tailback do? Similar to today's Wildcat Formation, the Tailback was the principle ball handler & passer, but was the main runner in the formation.

And yes, I'm old enough to remember Prothro running the Single Wing with Billy Kilmer at UCLA & Bowden Wyatt running it at Tennessee with Mallon Fairlcloth et al.

 

[takethepoints]

Never never could I ever figure out how somebody who was 205 pounds could run over people like a 235 RB. He didn’t have that reputation at Auburn and was mainly a blocker but the Falcons had bigger backs in their history who did not run as hard.

If you look at films of Andrews running you will notice that he leaned forward ("running with tilt", we called it) and brought his arms forward so that when you hit him you mostly ran into knees and forearms. Like this:

Made it kinda hard to get a grip win him. Once he got out of the trash, he'd straighten up and run like a normal person.

 

[RonJohn]

But here is my real question. When you see newer nomenclature, names and numbers, for current positions, does a part of your brain translate that information based on what a similar role was in an older system? When you are processing the role and function of a position in a newer system do you start with a tabula rosa and learn from scratch or do you translate from your years of football knowledge?

I am not a learning expert, but I think this is just part of how people learn new things. When you learn a new language, you start by learning words. Then you learn phrases and sentences. During that process, your mind (at least mine) continually translates back to English so you can understand it. If you continue to learn the language, at some point you will no longer translate in your head. You just understand the meaning directly from the second language. I even started dreaming in the other language. Also when that happens, you start to realize that some things are more eloquent and directly descriptive in the second language. I think the same could be true about football nomenclature. (except hopefully the dreaming portion) For example, with the spread option many would translate A back to wing or slot. After some time immersed in that offense, the "translation" would no longer be necessary and they would just automatically understand A back.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I am not a learning expert, but I think this is just part of how people learn new things. When you learn a new language, you start by learning words. Then you learn phrases and sentences. During that process, your mind (at least mine) continually translates back to English so you can understand it. If you continue to learn the language, at some point you will no longer translate in your head. You just understand the meaning directly from the second language. I even started dreaming in the other language. Also when that happens, you start to realize that some things are more eloquent and directly descriptive in the second language. I think the same could be true about football nomenclature. (except hopefully the dreaming portion) For example, with the spread option many would translate A back to wing or slot. After some time immersed in that offense, the "translation" would no longer be necessary and they would just automatically understand A back.

Well said. Thinking in the new language is the desired outcome.

 

[bobongo]

I always wondered if TB became the term because of the power-I formation?

I remember Al Ciraldo referring to the halfback in formation as "the tail of the I".

 

[bobongo]

Haven't heard this in many years, but our high school radio broadcaster referred to the "monster man", who I thought must be the nose tackle, but later found out it was the strong safety.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Haven't heard this in many years, but our high school radio broadcaster referred to the "monster man", who I thought must be the nose tackle, but later found out it was the strong safety.

Sometimes called “monster back.”

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I’ve mentioned this in the past but do any of you remember when one side of the center was designated “quick” and the other side “strong?” Quick guards and tackles tended to be like lighter and strong guards and tackles tended to be heavier. I’m not sure if this relates to short side/boundary or if related more to whether an offense was “right handed” or “left handed.” Does this ring any bells for anyone?

 

[stylee]

What a fantastic thread.

 

[stinger78]

I’ve mentioned this in the past but do any of you remember when one side of the center was designated “quick” and the other side “strong?” Quick guards and tackles tended to be like lighter and strong guards and tackles tended to be heavier. I’m not sure if this relates to short side/boundary or if related more to whether an offense was “right handed” or “left handed.” Does this ring any bells for anyone?

Not really, but it might have referred at one time to the pulling OL in the Green Bay sweep. How’s that for a blast from the past.

Trivia: Who was GB’s primary pilling guard in their sweep?

 

[bobongo]

Not really, but it might have referred at one time to the pulling OL in the Green Bay sweep. How’s that for a blast from the past.

Trivia: Who was GB’s primary pilling guard in their sweep?

Fred Thurston (looked it up)

 

[stinger78]

Fuzzy Thurston. Later Jerry Kramer.

Trivia #2: What Tech great played in that same OL in the mid-60’s?

 

[bobongo]

Fuzzy Thurston. Later Jerry Kramer.

Trivia #2: What Tech great played in that same OL in the mid-60’s?

Eh, Bill Curry. What did I win?

 

[stinger78]

Eh, Bill Curry. What did I win?

A third trivia. Other than GB OL, what did Thurston and Curry have in common.

 

[takethepoints]

I am not a learning expert, but I think this is just part of how people learn new things. When you learn a new language, you start by learning words. Then you learn phrases and sentences. During that process, your mind (at least mine) continually translates back to English so you can understand it. If you continue to learn the language, at some point you will no longer translate in your head. You just understand the meaning directly from the second language. I even started dreaming in the other language. Also when that happens, you start to realize that some things are more eloquent and directly descriptive in the second language. I think the same could be true about football nomenclature. (except hopefully the dreaming portion) For example, with the spread option many would translate A back to wing or slot. After some time immersed in that offense, the "translation" would no longer be necessary and they would just automatically understand A back.

Yes, and then there's the US Army. I had a good friend back in college who was drafted and selected for the Army's language school in Monterey. He went and dutifully learned Bulgarian. Then he was posted to - wait for it - Saigon. When he got there his new CO asked why he was there, seeing as how they had, like, zero use for a Bulgarian translator. My friend shrugged and got transferred to a supply unit. Where he and his buds stole codeine cough syrup, went to the movies, and got stoned out of their skulls. Your tax dollars at work.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Not really, but it might have referred at one time to the pulling OL in the Green Bay sweep. How’s that for a blast from the past.

Trivia: Who was GB’s primary pilling guard in their sweep?

It wasn’t Curry was it? I thought he was a center.

I used to know those players but time has erased the files.

My take on “quick” versus “strong” was that in the mid 60s you have national powers like Alabama who had offensive linemen as light as 195 (Cecil Dowdy) and you other national powers like Notre Dame who were running 30-35 pounds heavier. It was still an open question as to which approach was better, the quicker players or the stronger players. Some teams, including a few years at Tech under Carson, split the difference by having one side of the line lighter and one side heavier. I don’t honestly know but I wonder if one side was for straight power running and the other side was for pulling guards, traps and sweeps.

 

[stech81]

If you look at films of Andrews running you will notice that he leaned forward ("running with tilt", we called it) and brought his arms forward so that when you hit him you mostly ran into knees and forearms. Like this:

View attachment 15510

Made it kinda hard to get a grip win him. Once he got out of the trash, he'd straighten up and run like a normal person.

Yes i'm old 71 but this picture got me to thinking when I played you had knee pads, now today they wear their pants above the knees. when did this change?