Nomenclature in Football

[Northeast Stinger]

I’m going to date myself big time now.

I remember when offensive and defensive systems had a definite nomenclature and numbering system. Wide receivers were discreet categories identified as either a split end, tight end or flanker with numbers usually in the 80s except for the flanker who got a number corresponding to a running back.

Running backs were usually called fullbacks (#30s) tailbacks (#40s) or halfbacks (#20s). Quarterbacks always had numbers in the teens.

Centers were 50s, guards 60s, and tackles 70s.

On defense, tackles were 70s and ends were 80s, but numbers changed based on scheme. Linebackers were usually 50s. Defensive backs were usually 20s. But that depended somewhat on whether they were cornerbacks or safeties. And even that depended on type of defense.

There are lots of exceptions to these rules but the basic pattern remained virtually the same from my youth league football days and into college. As schemes changed the nomenclature and numbers were strained to maintain a coherent structure.

CPJ used A-backs, which announcers sometimes called slot backs, conjuring up some kind of run and shoot offense. The B-back was often called a fullback clearly referencing the Texas wishbone formation.

To discuss all the variations and permutations might get wearisome for the reader, so the questions will come up soon. Interesting side discussions have to do with how QB, FB, and HB got their name and what they mean. The answer might surprise. Also, many years ago the H-back became popular with almost every pro team. Where did that come from? And when someone like Michigan moves a tightend into a backfield half back position is that really just the old H-back concept?

But here is my real question. When you see newer nomenclature, names and numbers, for current positions, does a part of your brain translate that information based on what a similar role was in an older system? When you are processing the role and function of a position in a newer system do you start with a tabula rosa and learn from scratch or do you translate from your years of football knowledge?

 

[stinger78]

When I played it was similar, but QB’s were single digits and teens, DB/RB were 20’s/30’s, fullbacks were 40’s, centers and LB were 50’s, G were 60’s, T were 70’s, and E were 80’s. The next change was DL became 90’s.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When I played it was similar, but QB’s were single digits and teens, DB/RB were 20’s/30’s, fullbacks were 40’s, centers and LB were 50’s, G were 60’s, T were 70’s, and E were 80’s. The next change was DL became 90’s.

Yep. All checks out.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Yep. All checks out.

But forgot to ask about how you translate in your mind. When you see a wildcat do you think wing-T or whatever? When you see a hybrid safety/linebacker do you think rover? When you see a WR off the line of scrimmage do you see, depending on where they start, a flanker, slot back, motion man, etc?

And what’s up with a defensive tackle being #9 and how is that even legal?

Anyway, my assumption, which may be false, is that what attracts many of us to football is the sense of order as a battle is played out on a symmetrical grid. And so I wonder what others do to keep the constant changes in systems in some kind of order.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

We had nose guards not nose tackles. Or guards and two linebackers.
Split ends, tight ends, and slot receivers. Halfback and fullback.
Also remember Wrecker and Stinger.

 

[danny daniel]

Some old terminology and old fundamentals and such:

full house backfield was QB under center, FB behind the QB, and a half back on each side of the FB. Most often also had two TEs lined up just outside the Tackles.
wideouts, split end, flanker, and now called wide receivers
short side of the field was weak side, now boundary
wide side of the field was strong side, now field side
end split out 3 or 4 yards was a flex end
was middle guard, now nose tackle
D linemen and LBs use to line up on the LOS inside eye or shoulder, outside eye or shoulder, or head up, but now gaps between players are alpha numbered
CB: use to be coached to not allow receivers to get outside of them, now it is the opposite
duel safeties use to sometimes "invert" (responding to presnap man in motion or post snap as run play develops)
TE use to line up on the LOS next to a tackle. Now he lines up where ever as presnap alignment has many variations
H back was a RB who might look like a smaller TE or a FB whose primary job was to block and he lined up usually somewhere close and behind the OL
Standup players (DEs, LBs, CBs, and safeties always lined up with outside foot back (to take the proper first step and to better avoid getting blocked inside). Now nobody cares about foot alignment
We always had a designated contain man on each side and on kick coverage.....lost art
We use to grab a shirt to put it on. Now grabbing someone elses shirt is part of the game.
lots of smaller guys use to could play the game but rule changes eliminating low blocks (even on D) have made it a big man's game
QBs use to have no special protection. Now there are pages of rules about thou shall not do such and such to the QB
assisting the runner use to be a penalty. Now it is a normal part of the short run game.
ball use to be placed where the player last stepped inbounds but now it is placed where the ref thinks the ball crossed the out of bounds line
as far as jersy numbers go we use to trade jerseys at halftime but of course that is now not legal

 

[Northeast Stinger]

We had nose guards not nose tackles. Or guards and two linebackers.
Split ends, tight ends, and slot receivers. Halfback and fullback.
Also remember Wrecker and Stinger.

Nose guard was the original term I heard for putting a defender over a center. I could be wrong but it seems like nose tackle came into play with the advent of 3 man front.

Wrecker and Stinger were Carson era, right?

 

[awbuzz]

Yep, used to be that way.

 

[CEB]

I’m going to date myself big time now.

I remember when offensive and defensive systems had a definite nomenclature and numbering system. Wide receivers were discreet categories identified as either a split end, tight end or flanker with numbers usually in the 80s except for the flanker who got a number corresponding to a running back.

Running backs were usually called fullbacks (#30s) tailbacks (#40s) or halfbacks (#20s). Quarterbacks always had numbers in the teens.

Centers were 50s, guards 60s, and tackles 70s.

On defense, tackles were 70s and ends were 80s, but numbers changed based on scheme. Linebackers were usually 50s. Defensive backs were usually 20s. But that depended somewhat on whether they were cornerbacks or safeties. And even that depended on type of defense.

There are lots of exceptions to these rules but the basic pattern remained virtually the same from my youth league football days and into college. As schemes changed the nomenclature and numbers were strained to maintain a coherent structure.

CPJ used A-backs, which announcers sometimes called slot backs, conjuring up some kind of run and shoot offense. The B-back was often called a fullback clearly referencing the Texas wishbone formation.

To discuss all the variations and permutations might get wearisome for the reader, so the questions will come up soon. Interesting side discussions have to do with how QB, FB, and HB got their name and what they mean. The answer might surprise. Also, many years ago the H-back became popular with almost every pro team. Where did that come from? And when someone like Michigan moves a tightend into a backfield half back position is that really just the old H-back concept?

But here is my real question. When you see newer nomenclature, names and numbers, for current positions, does a part of your brain translate that information based on what a similar role was in an older system? When you are processing the role and function of a position in a newer system do you start with a tabula rosa and learn from scratch or do you translate from your years of football knowledge?

Is this nomenclature or numerology?
Perhaps “numenclature?”

I feel like these conventions held mostly through the 2000s. The last 15 or so years has seen the change.

I felt like offense was always more strict than D so officials could more readily identify “eligible” players by position… but I could be making that up.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Some old terminology and old fundamentals and such:

full house backfield was QB under center, FB behind the QB, and a half back on each side of the FB. Most often also had two TEs lined up just outside the Tackles.
wideouts, split end, flanker, and now called wide receivers
short side of the field was weak side, now boundary
wide side of the field was strong side, now field side
end split out 3 or 4 yards was a flex end
was middle guard, now nose tackle
D linemen and LBs use to line up on the LOS inside eye or shoulder, outside eye or shoulder, or head up, but now gaps between players are alpha numbered
CB: use to be coached to not allow receivers to get outside of them, now it is the opposite
duel safeties use to sometimes "invert" (responding to presnap man in motion or post snap as run play develops)
TE use to line up on the LOS next to a tackle. Now he lines up where ever as presnap alignment has many variations
H back was a RB who might look like a smaller TE or a FB whose primary job was to block and he lined up usually somewhere close and behind the OL
Standup players (DEs, LBs, CBs, and safeties always lined up with outside foot back (to take the proper first step and to better avoid getting blocked inside). Now nobody cares about foot alignment
We always had a designated contain man on each side and on kick coverage.....lost art
We use to grab a shirt to put it on. Now grabbing someone elses shirt is part of the game.
lots of smaller guys use to could play the game but rule changes eliminating low blocks (even on D) have made it a big man's game
QBs use to have no special protection. Now there are pages of rules about thou shall not do such and such to the QB
assisting the runner use to be a penalty. Now it is a normal part of the short run game.
ball use to be placed where the player last stepped inbounds but now it is placed where the ref thinks the ball crossed the out of bounds line
as far as jersy numbers go we use to trade jerseys at halftime but of course that is now not legal

It seems like pushing the ball carrier was illegal until fairly recently. The first time I saw it done overtly I was shocked when the refs didn’t throw a flag and the announcers applauded the effort.

On blocking technique I remember I started as a guard and there were very strick limits on what you could do with your hands. Hands against chest and only elbows beyond your shoulders. None of this reaching out and grabbing a defender.

 

[DeepSnap]

Nose guard was the original term I heard for putting a defender over a center. I could be wrong but it seems like nose tackle came into play with the advent of 3 man front.

Wrecker and Stinger were Carson era, right?

Same same..... every coach has to put his stamp on whatever they're doing...... and call it something that makes it his. Flankers, WRs, Split Ends, Left Halfbacks, Right Halfbacks, Tailbacks, Fullbacks, A-Backs, B-Backs, Slot Backs, H-Backs, Tight ends, Xs, Ys, & Zs, Wiggles, Waggles, Roll Outs, Sprint Outs, Throwbacks, Drop Backs,

Carson's Wrecker & Stinger were just his cutesy GT way of saying Sam (Strong) or Will (Weak) OLB.... even fronts usually had a Mike (Middle) LB..... and a Nickle could even be the Rover (Strong Safety/Walked-Up Safety). Carson's "Tech" defense had two ILBs, but no particular name designations.

Is this nomenclature or numerology?
Perhaps “numenclature?”

I feel like these conventions held mostly through the 2000s. The last 15 or so years has seen the change.

I felt like offense was always more strict than D so officials could more readily identify “eligible” players by position… but I could be making that up.

Numbers were pretty strictly regulated, but what you called 'em varied by era.

Post-1952 and with the advent of the Straight T formation, you had LHBs wearing 20s, FBs 30s, and RHBs wearing 40s. As the 1950s wore on, FBs starting wearing 40s and things were pretty stable til the early 1960s and the into of the 90s for DEs and LBs. 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s were as others described.

Strangest to me these days are the deepsnappers wearing 40s. SMH.

The more things change, the more they remain the same. At the end of the day, it's just 11 on 11.

DeepSnap
"#69 in your program, #1 in your heart."

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Same same..... every coach has to put his stamp on whatever they're doing...... and call it something that makes it his. Flankers, WRs, Split Ends, Left Halfbacks, Right Halfbacks, Tailbacks, Fullbacks, A-Backs, B-Backs, Slot Backs, H-Backs, Tight ends, Xs, Ys, & Zs, Wiggles, Waggles, Roll Outs, Sprint Outs, Throwbacks, Drop Backs,

Carson's Wrecker & Stinger were just his cutesy GT way of saying Sam (Strong) or Will (Weak) OLB.... even fronts usually had a Mike (Middle) LB..... and a Nickle could even be the Rover (Strong Safety/Walked-Up Safety). Carson's "Tech" defense had two ILBs, but no particular name designations.


Numbers were pretty strictly regulated, but what you called 'em varied by era.

Post-1952 and with the advent of the Straight T formation, you had LHBs wearing 20s, FBs 30s, and RHBs wearing 40s. As the 1950s wore on, FBs starting wearing 40s and things were pretty stable til the early 1960s and the into of the 90s for DEs and LBs. 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s were as others described.

Strangest to me these days are the deepsnappers wearing 40s. SMH.

The more things change, the more they remain the same. At the end of the day, it's just 11 on 11.

DeepSnap
"#69 in your program, #1 in your heart."

Yep and yep and yep.

Do I recall correctly that Ted Roof had some kind of hybrid / nickel back whose primary purpose was to keep the defense from getting beaten on an explosive play? The position had a name. Don’t know if Roof stuck with that or not.

Also seems like Rodgers, maybe, experimented one year with a three man defensive front but the two ends played just outside the offensive tackles. Their job was to bull rush straight back into the backfield to keep any play from going wide. Linebackers crowded inside the tackles and the defense tried to force things inside.

Now I’m just reminiscing but Southern Cal in late 60s, 70s played a five down lineman front with a nose tackle, sometimes switching to a six man front. Their job was to stop any linemen from getting to second level and allow the linebacker or backers (never more than 2) to roam freely from sideline to sideline.

I actually remember having a right half back and left half back when I was a child. Then along came Lenny Snow who was a tailback with number 41.

So, to repeat my question to everyone, do your understand newer concepts that come along by translating them in your mind to some function that may have been performed by a different position and name in the past?

 

[Towaliga]

It seems like pushing the ball carrier was illegal until fairly recently. The first time I saw it done overtly I was shocked when the refs didn’t throw a flag and the announcers applauded the effort.

On blocking technique I remember I started as a guard and there were very strick limits on what you could do with your hands. Hands against chest and only elbows beyond your shoulders. None of this reaching out and grabbing a defender.

Dang, Stinger. I always envisioned you being a lot younger than me, but now I’m not so sure.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Dang, Stinger. I always envisioned you being a lot younger than me, but now I’m not so sure.

It’s only a number.

 

[takethepoints]

I'm not sure about this, but I think the names for QB, TB, and FB came from the old single wing.

When I played college ball back in the Dark Ages, we ran a single wing. And nobody else did. Consequently, we had the same advantage hat Tech had under Paul; nobody knew what was going on unless they had played us more than once and even that seldom helped. In the single wing we ran, the signals and plays were called by the quarterback, but he lined up 1.5 yards deep behind the guard (depending on which side the play was called) and his primary responsibility was to block or take the occasional direct snap, then hand off or pass. The tailback played directly behind the center 5 yards deep and (usually) got the direct snap. The fullback played beside him and (usually) got a handoff for a straight dive or blocked for the halfback. We could snap the ball to either man and then play all sorts of combos of blocking, running, and occasionally passing. As you might imagine when yourtailback was 6'3", 225 and ran a 10.4 100 yards, there wasn't much need to throw.

Well, enough ancient history.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I'm not sure about this, but I think the names for QB, TB, and FB came from the old single wing.

When I played college ball back in the Dark Ages, we ran a single wing. And nobody else did. Consequently, we had the same advantage hat Tech had under Paul; nobody knew what was going on unless they had played us more than once and even that seldom helped. In the single wing we ran, the signals and plays were called by the quarterback, but he lined up 1.5 yards deep behind the guard (depending on which side the play was called) and his primary responsibility was to block or take the occasional direct snap, then hand off or pass. The tailback played directly behind the center 5 yards deep and (usually) got the direct snap. The fullback played beside him and (usually) got a handoff for a straight dive or blocked for the halfback. We could snap the ball to either man and then play all sorts of combos of blocking, running, and occasionally passing. As you might imagine when yourtailback was 6'3", 225 and ran a 10.4 100 yards, there wasn't much need to throw.

Well, enough ancient history.

QB, HB, and FB from the single wing.

 

[jgtengineer]

Yep and yep and yep.

Do I recall correctly that Ted Roof had some kind of hybrid / nickel back whose primary purpose was to keep the defense from getting beaten on an explosive play? The position had a name. Don’t know if Roof stuck with that or not.

Also seems like Rodgers, maybe, experimented one year with a three man defensive front but the two ends played just outside the offensive tackles. Their job was to bull rush straight back into the backfield to keep any play from going wide. Linebackers crowded inside the tackles and the defense tried to force things inside.

Now I’m just reminiscing but Southern Cal in late 60s, 70s played a five down lineman front with a nose tackle, sometimes switching to a six man front. Their job was to stop any linemen from getting to second level and allow the linebacker or backers (never more than 2) to roam freely from sideline to sideline.

I actually remember having a right half back and left half back when I was a child. Then along came Lenny Snow who was a tailback with number 41.

So, to repeat my question to everyone, do your understand newer concepts that come along by translating them in your mind to some function that may have been performed by a different position and name in the past?

Roof called that poistion a Stinger.

its also been called a rover.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Roof called that poistion a Stinger.

its also been called a rover.

Yeah, knew it was a rover but couldn’t remember roof’s exact term for it.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

QB, HB, and FB from the single wing.

Well, as I alluded in my introductory comments, the term QB, HB and FB have surprising origins. They are not derived from American football but Irish rugby. I will not bother with the lengthy explanation since anyone can look it up but it had to do with the position in a formation relative to one’s own goal. One may recall that the first American football game was an odd hybrid of rugby and soccer and new American rules. Rules, numbers of players and the like were not standardized until later.

But the single wing discussion is fascinating to me because originally the QB was not the field general that they are now. Without the forward pass they certainly were less important.

 

[takethepoints]

QB, HB, and FB from the single wing.

Well, yes, that was the usual nomenclature. But we called the position TB. Part of the general weirdness of our O.