No Huddle > Killing Play Clock

boger2337

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,435
So, I have no website or stat site other than me tracking it at the games myself. But I was curious of why Lucas waits so long at the line of scrimmage to snap the ball. I mean sometimes it seems like an eternity.

I decided to track some stats based on running no huddle compared to Lucas taking his time at the line of scrimmage.

(This info is based solely on LJ due to him being the primary passing QB)

In the last 12 attempts he has completed 3 passes when taking longer than 12 seconds once the ball has been set. That's 25%...

when we ran no huddle he is 8 of his last 12. 66%

This is based on when I started to notice a difference in results.

One thing to note. On plays ran with at least 12 seconds taken once the ball is set. The average passing yards completed are 1.9-2.1 yards per completion....

When running no huddle its 5.4.

I am still struggling to figure out the purpose of the delay at the LOS. As it seems it just makes Lucas think WAY TOO MUCH.

I do believe someone posted a very interesting tidbit about learning new roles/rules/actions.

Basically the faster you try and complete a task the less time you have to think and more reaction you have. Which also will teach you to learn from your reactions and critique them.

But when you slow a process down it gives you time to think of every action. You think about how things can go wrong. Next thing you know you're thinking about what could go wrong rather than doing what is right.

I believe this is 10000% relatable to the stats I found. When we hurry Lucas and force him to make reaction decisions he has a better outcome. When coach P slows it down he struggles. I believe he gets stuck in his own head.



Not trying to say I know better than the coaching staff, because field placement, defense stamina and many other factors come into play when deciding to speed the offense up. But I do believe we are shooting ourselves in the foot by slowing our offense down.

Stats speak rather loudly even on this small scale.

I'd love to see us go up to temple and establish the run. Once we get them stacking the box we need to hurry up and hit passes quickly. Get them on their heels. We seem to get the run going just to take out time and make a short awkward pass.
 

GT14

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
125
Interesting insight, and I would want more data to be sure, but I'm not terribly surprised by the stats being worse after a delayed snap. But the pause isn't the reason for the poor stats, but rather a sign of an unanticipated or difficult defensive front. He gets the play call prior to lining up, so if there's a pause and delay, it's because the defense is well prepared for that type of play. If there's no delay it's because they think the play will work given what the defense is showing.
 

boger2337

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,435
Interesting insight, and I would want more data to be sure, but I'm not terribly surprised by the stats being worse after a delayed snap. But the pause isn't the reason for the poor stats, but rather a sign of an unanticipated or difficult defensive front. He gets the play call prior to lining up, so if there's a pause and delay, it's because the defense is well prepared for that type of play. If there's no delay it's because they think the play will work given what the defense is showing.


My concern is the pause is just him standing there. There seems to be no play change or audible. If anything it seems like he is trying to hard count the defense and it looks terrible
 

ibeattetris

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,606
So, I have no website or stat site other than me tracking it at the games myself. But I was curious of why Lucas waits so long at the line of scrimmage to snap the ball. I mean sometimes it seems like an eternity.

I decided to track some stats based on running no huddle compared to Lucas taking his time at the line of scrimmage.

(This info is based solely on LJ due to him being the primary passing QB)

In the last 12 attempts he has completed 3 passes when taking longer than 12 seconds once the ball has been set. That's 25%...

when we ran no huddle he is 8 of his last 12. 66%

This is based on when I started to notice a difference in results.

One thing to note. On plays ran with at least 12 seconds taken once the ball is set. The average passing yards completed are 1.9-2.1 yards per completion....

When running no huddle its 5.4.

I am still struggling to figure out the purpose of the delay at the LOS. As it seems it just makes Lucas think WAY TOO MUCH.

I do believe someone posted a very interesting tidbit about learning new roles/rules/actions.

Basically the faster you try and complete a task the less time you have to think and more reaction you have. Which also will teach you to learn from your reactions and critique them.

But when you slow a process down it gives you time to think of every action. You think about how things can go wrong. Next thing you know you're thinking about what could go wrong rather than doing what is right.

I believe this is 10000% relatable to the stats I found. When we hurry Lucas and force him to make reaction decisions he has a better outcome. When coach P slows it down he struggles. I believe he gets stuck in his own head.



Not trying to say I know better than the coaching staff, because field placement, defense stamina and many other factors come into play when deciding to speed the offense up. But I do believe we are shooting ourselves in the foot by slowing our offense down.

Stats speak rather loudly even on this small scale.

I'd love to see us go up to temple and establish the run. Once we get them stacking the box we need to hurry up and hit passes quickly. Get them on their heels. We seem to get the run going just to take out time and make a short awkward pass.
Pretty sure this is just the standard no huddle ncaa offense. Teams rush to the line, get the defense to declare a formation, look to the sideline for a call, run the play. It’s very different from what we used to run, but it seems pretty similar to other teams running no huddle.
 

tmhunter52

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,466
So, I have no website or stat site other than me tracking it at the games myself. But I was curious of why Lucas waits so long at the line of scrimmage to snap the ball. I mean sometimes it seems like an eternity.

I decided to track some stats based on running no huddle compared to Lucas taking his time at the line of scrimmage.

(This info is based solely on LJ due to him being the primary passing QB)

In the last 12 attempts he has completed 3 passes when taking longer than 12 seconds once the ball has been set. That's 25%...

when we ran no huddle he is 8 of his last 12. 66%

This is based on when I started to notice a difference in results.

One thing to note. On plays ran with at least 12 seconds taken once the ball is set. The average passing yards completed are 1.9-2.1 yards per completion....

When running no huddle its 5.4.

I am still struggling to figure out the purpose of the delay at the LOS. As it seems it just makes Lucas think WAY TOO MUCH.

I do believe someone posted a very interesting tidbit about learning new roles/rules/actions.

Basically the faster you try and complete a task the less time you have to think and more reaction you have. Which also will teach you to learn from your reactions and critique them.

But when you slow a process down it gives you time to think of every action. You think about how things can go wrong. Next thing you know you're thinking about what could go wrong rather than doing what is right.

I believe this is 10000% relatable to the stats I found. When we hurry Lucas and force him to make reaction decisions he has a better outcome. When coach P slows it down he struggles. I believe he gets stuck in his own head.



Not trying to say I know better than the coaching staff, because field placement, defense stamina and many other factors come into play when deciding to speed the offense up. But I do believe we are shooting ourselves in the foot by slowing our offense down.

Stats speak rather loudly even on this small scale.

I'd love to see us go up to temple and establish the run. Once we get them stacking the box we need to hurry up and hit passes quickly. Get them on their heels. We seem to get the run going just to take out time and make a short awkward pass.

I remember how quickly Miami ran their final drive a few years ago in Miami to beat us with a field goal as time expired. Not only could slowing things down affect our QB’s thought processes and confidence, it makes defensive calls, alignments and personnel changes more difficult. It’s easier for a QB and receiver to connect if the defender is a step slower due to a little uncertainty.
 

85Escape

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,450
I hate to watch Prairie Dog offenses. If you are going to run no-huddle, at least have the cojones to run up-tempo. If those long delays are the result of the defense being prepared for our offensive play, then we need to get a randomizer instead of an OC calling the plays. It seems like most LJ plays are 15 seconds of waiting, with no audibles or other changes. You'd think we'd have two plays called in the huddle, and if the defense looked prepared for one it should take like three seconds to audible to the alternate play. That's what the pros do, and this is supposed to be a 'pro-style' offense, right?
 

armeck

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
357
Those delayed snaps frustrate the hell out of me.
When I coached my son's peanut league teams one of the basic fundamentals is that you don't allow the defense to get ready for - break the huddle and snap the damn ball!
(yes, I understand its more complicated than that at this level and reading defenses pre-snap is a thing, but come on the time wasted is obvious)
 
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