Niners Want CPJ?

[TheGridironGeek]

Also just wanted to point out that they still called these plays last year. More often than not they were snuffed out for little to no gain.

You're right, but it doesn't mean they didn't screw up by phasing it out. No play will automatically work whenever you run it. The option can't be successful as a token that you run once in a while (see Mississippi State in the Orange Bowl). It has to be an integrated part of your playbook, with counters that will hurt the defense if they try to stop it.

For instance, the best way to stop the Read-O is to sit your DE's in the weeds, Tom Landry style, like Nick Saban does at Alabama. However, when an offense runs it repetitiously and forces you to sit your DE's for most of the game, it cancels out your pass rush. That's why Ohio State was able to burn Alabama on play action.

If NFL DC's are convinced that they have "figured out" 11 x 11 running plays and that the numerical advantage doesn't matter, how do you account for the Seahawks? The Panthers? Those teams are using the option in an integrated, focused way. Meanwhile other teams are running it every so often as a trick play, and when it doesn't happen to work their coaches say, "See? I knew it was a fad." Yet every time a West Coast style team has a bad day, the players are blamed, not the playbook.

Every Tech fan is familiar with the double standard. My favorite NFL team being the Cardinals, I hope the 49'ers keep believing in it too.

 

[Techster]

All 3 were legendary option QBs in college. All 3 were given the opportunity to run an option scheme when they arrived. Each had wild success and made the playoffs with teams that had lost out in years prior. Each was told, "That was a fad and a fluke, a college offense that will never work long-term." One was asked to play single-wing fullback and then West Coast passing QB. He failed miserably. One was asked to run whatever-the-hell generic crap the Redskins ran in 2014. He failed miserably. One was asked to hand off or throw, mostly throw. He failed miserably.

How would Justin Thomas look in Oklahoma State's offense? Probably not so bad, but it certainly wouldn't maximize his skills the way the GT "high school" offense does. And yet the Flex has suffered the same prejudice in the FBS that the Pistol and Spread-O suffer in the NFL.

If you can't see the common narrative here, squints a tad harder.

The problem is no coach in the NFL knows the systems that each of those QBs ran like the college coach's of those QBs. That's the idiocy of the NFL. Coaches want to fit square pegs in round holes, and if it doesn't work, throw out the square pegs and start all over again. They know their system, and they're not going to adjust to the extent they're in a foreign territory. I can't blame them...they're kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place because the GM wants one thing and makes the drafting decisions, and the coach wants another (and that's another topic I could rail about). Ultimately they're going to go with what got them to that point.

It's like CPJ in 2013 with Vad. He experimented with the pistol and diamond formations, but ultimately, that wasn't what he knew and what got him here. He finally scrapped it and said, we're going with my system come hell or high water and I'm going to put guys in that fit what I know I can do. Lo and behold...11-3, top 10, OB Champions.

If NFL GMs are going to draft these option QBs, I would spend money on drafting their OC to come coach them as well. If you hire a coach that runs a West Coast system...WHY THE FUDGE are you drafting an option based QB in the first round?! You know why Chan Gailey is well respected in the NFL? Because he's one of the few coaches that doesn't have a specific system. He can make hay with different kinds of guys and he maximizes talent. GT fans like to make fun of him, but the guy knows his strengths and weaknesses.

OH MY GOSH...WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT AGAIN?? AND WHY AM I YELLING?!!!

 

[JacketFromUGA]

I don't think Buffalo fans truly agree with your Chan assessment.

 

[AE 87]

I don't think Buffalo fans truly agree with your Chan assessment.

C'mon. How he used Calvin at Tech? Spiller in Buffalo? Genius.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I've been thinking more & more that if Vince Lombardi were around today, his 3 QB's would be Denard Robinson, Tim Tebow and Jordan Lynch, he would spend his "QB money" on a dominant defense, and the team would run 50+ times a game and win the Super Bowl 14-10 while everybody made fun of them.

Not too far removed from what CPJ has described as what his NFL strategy would be.

I have read different versions of the following story but the essence of it was the same. Some reporter asked Lomardi if he was in a playoff game and the other team starting running the wishbone what he would do and he said (in essence) "Nothing. We would be embarrassed because we would not be able to stop it."

 

[TheGridironGeek]

I have next ead different versions of the following story but the essence of it was the same. Some reporter asked Lomardi if he was in a playoff game and the other team starting running the wishbone what he would do and he said (in essence) "Nothing. We would be embarrassed because we would not be able to stop it."

Wow. That just became one of my two favorite Lombardi stories, next to "Max, that's a 500 dollar fine for sneaking out with a woman. Next time, it'll be a thousand. And if you find a girl worth a thousand, let me know, I'll go with you."

 

[Techster]

I don't think Buffalo fans truly agree with your Chan assessment.

There's a reason why Buffalo is a place where a coach's career goes to die.

 

[GT Man]

Telling a $10M player to block would be harder.

Who needs $10M players?

 

[takethepoints]

Back in the day, Bud Wilkinson was the coach of the Cardinals. He was going to put in the wishbone (nothing else had worked) when he was fired.

Now, how he expected Jim Hart to run an option O was always a mystery to me, but it is too bad he didn't get to try. What we have today in the pros is something like the vast single-wing conspiracy existing before Clark Shaughnessy taught the Bears the modern T formation in the early '40s. All the pros need is for someone to step up to the plate and give it a try and all of a sudden things will change drastically. It's a Moneyball situation, however; there are a lot of established interests that are against trying it out. Whoever does will walk to the Super Bowl, imho.

Btw, my dad, a long time Redskins fan, was at the 1940 NFL championship game where the Bears ran the T and beat the tar out of the regrettably named DC outfit 73 - 0. To his dying day, he said it was the most complete rout he had ever seen in any athletic contest, no matter what the sport.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

The problem is no coach in the NFL knows the systems that each of those QBs ran like the college coach's of those QBs. That's the idiocy of the NFL. Coaches want to fit square pegs in round holes, and if it doesn't work, throw out the square pegs and start all over again. They know their system, and they're not going to adjust to the extent they're in a foreign territory. I can't blame them...they're kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place because the GM wants one thing and makes the drafting decisions, and the coach wants another (and that's another topic I could rail about). Ultimately they're going to go with what got them to that point.

It's like CPJ in 2013 with Vad. He experimented with the pistol and diamond formations, but ultimately, that wasn't what he knew and what got him here. He finally scrapped it and said, we're going with my system come hell or high water and I'm going to put guys in that fit what I know I can do. Lo and behold...11-3, top 10, OB Champions.

If NFL GMs are going to draft these option QBs, I would spend money on drafting their OC to come coach them as well. If you hire a coach that runs a West Coast system...WHY THE FUDGE are you drafting an option based QB in the first round?! You know why Chan Gailey is well respected in the NFL? Because he's one of the few coaches that doesn't have a specific system. He can make hay with different kinds of guys and he maximizes talent. GT fans like to make fun of him, but the guy knows his strengths and weaknesses.

OH MY GOSH...WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT AGAIN?? AND WHY AM I YELLING?!!!

Great points. I give Troy Calhoun and Air Force a lot of credit. Of the seven teams using Flexbone or Wing-T concepts in the FBS, the Falcons are the only team that has been able to mix the Pistol, shotgun and center snap effectively without losing their identity or continuity as a unit.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

Back in the day, Bud Wilkinson was the coach of the Cardinals. He was going to put in the wishbone (nothing else had worked) when he was fired.

I believe they did run it on the goal line. It's not a bad idea, even today. You don't have to cut block, and if it would increase your Red Zone effectiveness why not?

("Because it's a passing league." Oh right.)

All the pros need is for someone to step up to the plate and give it a try and all of a sudden things will change drastically. It's a Moneyball situation, however; there are a lot of established interests that are against trying it out. Whoever does will walk to the Super Bowl, imho.

The Seahawks have quietly Moneyballed everyone. I don't like the snippy ref-begging buffoons, but you gotta respect them for playing college-style ball in the pros. Plain vanilla defense, powerful 11 x 11 running game that doesn't score 40+ but beats everyone. Against the Packers they lined up in a 2-minute drill situation & ran one read-option after another, and the Pack was helpless to stop it.

When faced with such a demonstration, NFL Guru Guy tends to shut his eyes, scrabble his head & spit out the word "lucky" over & over, but that's cognitive dissonance for you.

 

[SteamWhistle]

Just put Dwyer/Lynch at B-back, Damaryius Thomas and Calvin Johnson at WR,and Colin Kapernick at QB...try and stop that

Don't know if Calvin could block..