Niners Want CPJ?

thwgjacket

Guest
Messages
969
QB-Vick
BB-Lynch
Small AB-Sproles
Big AB- Hill
You could put that on the field under the salary cap. If you wanted to splurge you could go Charles or Bell at AB too.
At WR you get DT and someone like Sanu.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,096
I actually think CPJ would relish this if (and only if) he wins an NC at Tech. He'a talked about it before: hire 3 option QBs then get to it otherwise. The problem = you would need a taxi squad with a very high payroll. The people who say that running CPJ's O in the pros would lead to a lot of injuries might be right; you'd have to have a substantial pool of talent ready to come up.

But I think that would only be for a couple of years. Once it became clear that (provided the refs called the game right, a real question, imho) the level of injury was no greater then with a regular pro set, I suspect that a lot of owners would get on board.

But Frisco? Dream on!
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
Man. As a huge 49er fan in addition to being a Tech fan he's got so much wrong on both sides of the analysis it's ridiculous.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,026
I'd love to see CPJ assemble a team of guys who didn't make it in and/or have just left the NFL and challenge NFL teams to exhibition games. I think the offense would do fine.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
This guy wasted his time writing this article. Johnson would be crazy to leave tech for California. He would be canned in 3 years if they didn't win it all. They ran Harbough out after taking them to NFC championship 3-4 years.
Yep. The first response was to giggle, and then laugh out loud. Not because of cut blocks or wideouts blocking or any of that stuff, because none of it would be any more necessary with Johnson than with anyone else. It would in the first place be a really bad move for him, and in the second, a huge gamble in a league that takes no gambles at all. The job would not be beyond him. He has done it before, and very well, and without options or cut blocks. People forget that. As OC in Hawaii he coached a passing offense. Hard to believe but true. But Johnson could take any playbook and come game time outscheme and outsmart most of the DCs in the league. Interesting gobblygook for offseason, but still silly.
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
While CPJ's version of the triple option I don't see happening, I can see Chris Ault's pistol being implemented. Hell teams run it now.
 

Blumpkin Souffle

Bidly Biddington III
Messages
1,367
I would be shocked if we ever see Dwyer on a professional football field again...

I'd love to see CPJ assemble a team of guys who didn't make it in and/or have just left the NFL and challenge NFL teams to exhibition games. I think the offense would do fine.
Sounds like a bad sequel to this movie
thereplacements.jpg
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
While CPJ's version of the triple option I don't see happening, I can see Chris Ault's pistol being implemented. Hell teams run it now.

The Niners are one of those teams, or were at least. Kaep was Ault's last QB before he retired. It's effectiveness hasn't been overwhelming lately.
 

IEEEWreck

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
656
I think the reason CPJ's offense won't work in the NFL is the owners. It'd be just fine if you got a GM and owner that would support and implement his decisions.

But this is the NFL we're talking about.

And with the 49'rs, I'm feeling pretty safe that CPJ isn't interested.
 

TheGridironGeek

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
276
I love the article from the standpoint that CPJ is catching on with the public, even those who primarily focus on the NFL. As FTRS recently opined, perception & popularity matter.

Kaep is an option QB. Greatest pistol-spread QB of all time. Kaep's story has read almost exactly like the RG3 story, the Tebow story -- take the greatest college QB of all time at a certain style, play it for a while, have tremendous success, then say it won't work even though it did. Phase out the playbook and trade/bench/isolate the player, then blame him as if being a square peg in a round hole was his idea (albeit in Rg3's case, maybe it was).

The Seahawks are the one team to continue having an option QB do what he does best, and look at the results.

But the communism-flexbone comparison is one of the worst analogies ever. First of all, nobody has tried the Flex in the NFL unless you count the Run & Shoot. Second, the option play has worked in the NFL (Seattle 43, Denver 8), it's just that the establishment is in total denial about it. Third, while the writer is correct that true communism would not involve a government or a power hierarchy, the gridiron equivalent would be 50+ guys going out there without any coaches, brains or organization. Yes, that tactic has won 2-4 games for the Jaguars every year, but still...
 
Last edited:

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,412
No one is supposed to read the article. This is a headline to give negative recruiters some ammo. I can see Cutcliff now waving the headline at some of our commitments and saying, "See he's not even coaching at Tech next year!"
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
Kaep is an option QB. Greatest pistol-spread QB of all time. Kaep's story has read almost exactly like the RG3 story, the Tebow story -- take the greatest college QB of all time at a certain style, play it for a while, have tremendous success, then say it won't work even though it did. Phase out the playbook and trade/bench/isolate the player, then blame him as if being a square peg in a round hole was his idea (albeit in Rg3's case, maybe it was.

You're way off here. Their stories aren't similar at all. Kaep doesn't fit either one of their narratives. Tebow and RG3 don't fit each other's narratives. There's little in common between the three situations.

I think the reason CPJ's offense won't work in the NFL is the owners. It'd be just fine if you got a GM and owner that would support and implement his decisions.

But this is the NFL we're talking about.

And with the 49'rs, I'm feeling pretty safe that CPJ isn't interested.

Yea you're not going to find that right now with the 49ers sadly. Not at all.
 

TheGridironGeek

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
276
You're way off here. Their stories aren't similar at all. Kaep doesn't fit either one of their narratives. Tebow and RG3 don't fit each other's narratives. There's little in common between the three situations.

All 3 were legendary option QBs in college. All 3 were given the opportunity to run an option scheme when they arrived. Each had wild success and made the playoffs with teams that had lost out in years prior. Each was told, "That was a fad and a fluke, a college offense that will never work long-term." One was asked to play single-wing fullback and then West Coast passing QB. He failed miserably. One was asked to run whatever-the-hell generic crap the Redskins ran in 2014. He failed miserably. One was asked to hand off or throw, mostly throw. He failed miserably.

How would Justin Thomas look in Oklahoma State's offense? Probably not so bad, but it certainly wouldn't maximize his skills the way the GT "high school" offense does. And yet the Flex has suffered the same prejudice in the FBS that the Pistol and Spread-O suffer in the NFL.

If you can't see the common narrative here, squints a tad harder.
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
All 3 were legendary option QBs in college. All 3 were given the opportunity to run an option scheme when they arrived. Each had wild success and made the playoffs with teams that had lost out in years prior. Each was told, "That was a fad and a fluke, a college offense that will never work long-term." One was asked to play single-wing fullback and then West Coast passing QB. He failed miserably. One was asked to run whatever-the-hell generic crap the Redskins ran in 2014. He failed miserably. One was asked to hand off or throw, mostly throw. He failed miserably.

Tebow was pretty bad. When he was running the offense in Denver it was awful. That team made the playoffs due to their defense in spite of him. There was no point in his career as a starter he had wild success. If you think that it's revisionist history. They also never tried to run a West Coast offense with him. One of the things John Fox did well while with the Broncos was try to adapt the offense to his strengths while he was there. The results weren't there.

RG3 was great his first year. But then he got hurt which has really hurt his ability to be mobile. And that was only a matter of time before it happened because he didn't know how to avoid hits and he still doesn't know how to slide. And not as in he's too tough to slide but he physically does not know how to slide properly. You might be on to something here but I think they don't run a lot of zone read plays because he can't do it anymore. I'd definitely say he was mismanaged. And by many reports RG3's recent failings are a result of him not willing or able to put in the work to improve.

You're misinformed about the 49ers offense. The 49ers never ran an option scheme. Ever since Harbaugh arrived they've been a power run team. They have option plays (zone read and an Oregon style triple option for the most part) in the playbook but they've never been the focus of the offense. That's something the media pushed when Kaep put up gaudy rushing numbers ignoring the fact that many of those yards came from scrambling during drop back pass plays. Now I've seen something like 90% of Kaep's NFL snaps. To say he failed miserably is absurd. Take a look at his numbers compared to the other two and tell me he's failed miserably. His issue is that he hasn't progressed as much as hoped to this point. His development curve has flattened out but he hasn't regressed to failure. Now the 9er offense wasn't good last year but that wasn't entirely on him. We had major offensive line injuries (starters only played only 24 snaps together all year and the back ups were not good), one of the healthy guys held out during training camp and it took him half the year to find his stride, and Vernon Davis apparently took a year off from football. Vernon is the only vertical deep threat on our team (all of our receivers are possession types) so when he started to play like **** teams didn't have to worry about getting beat over the top which led to a lot of defenders close to the line. Both adversly affected the running game which is the engine of our offense. Then Harbaugh was run out of town by our owner and GM due to what looks like a power struggle that was engineered over the past calendar year. It's got nothing to do with tossing out the playbook, isolating the player, or square pegs in round holes. Like I said, it's a completely different situation than the other two.

How would Justin Thomas look in Oklahoma State's offense? Probably not so bad, but it certainly wouldn't maximize his skills the way the GT "high school" offense does. And yet the Flex has suffered the same prejudice in the FBS that the Pistol and Spread-O suffer in the NFL.

That may be (and I do think the prejudice is overblown) but it doesn't make three independent situations all of a sudden the same because of what they did in college.

If you can't see the common narrative here, squints a tad harder.

Cute. Well all I can say is that sometimes when you Squints too hard things get muddy and everything starts to look blurry. The only thing these guys have in common is that they played in college offenses that involved the option in some form and were then drafted into the NFL. That's it. After that they've all taken very different paths. You're connecting dots that aren't there.
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
They have option plays (zone read and an Oregon style triple option for the most part) in the playbook but they've never been the focus of the offense.

Also just wanted to point out that they still called these plays last year. More often than not they were snuffed out for little to no gain.
 

TheGridironGeek

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
276
Tebow was pretty bad. When he was running the offense in Denver it was awful.

People can use any adjectives they want to describe a given NFL player, past or present, disregarding that any NFL player by definition is in the top .001% of everybody at his craft. Far be it from a lowly semi-employed sportswriter to convince people otherwise, but I would like to make a simple point or two.

The 2011 Broncos led the league in rushing. They were ranked 20th in rushing before changing QBs and implementing the spread-O. They just happened to have maybe the best option QB in history to run it.

When you have a great running game, you don't always score many points. But you control the LOS, you have less turnovers, and your defense WILL look better. An "awful" QB cannot start in the NFL (or FBS) and make his team 1st out of 32 in any major category, unless it's losses, or turnovers.

Timmy also happened to have one of the best QBR's in the last few minutes of games, which has been rationalized in 100 childish ways but never actually explained within the "Tebow sucked haw haw" establishment paradigm. Maybe defenses were worn out reacting to a deceptive 11 x 11 run game and chasing him around. Or, maybe it was African voodoo vibes.

That team made the playoffs due to their defense in spite of him.

I've sat on the same bar stools you have. 500,000 pass-centric armchair analysts can't be wrong, right? Problem is, you're asking me to believe an average defense -- and I have lived in Denver and observed the Broncos for a long time -- an average defense that was giving up 20, 30, 40 points a game suddenly, magically got better and gave up 10 or 15 points a game. Then when their 'awful' QB was traded for an all-time great, they magically became flaky again.

Or maybe having the #1 running game -- and the #1 number of rushing attempts -- actually helps a defense look better. What about when Joe Gibbs returned to coach a sorry Redskins team, and they'd run off tackle 60 times and win 13-7? Do you think the Redskins defense magically became the '85 Bears for just a year or two?

Run the ball well and often, and your defense will look better, and you'll win 17-14 instead of losing 40-39. I learned this stuff when I was 10 years old. It's not an opinion.

There was no point in his career as a starter he had wild success.

I think 300 rushing yards unleashing the option in Oakland, after 50 years of people saying you couldn't do it, was pretty great. I think when the Pittsburgh Steelers had everybody, and I mean everybody -- the coaches, managers, the chick that Rapin' Burgler drugged in that bathroom stall -- up on the LOS trying to stop a "college" running play, yet it was still gaining close to 10 yards a play at the end, that was pretty special too. 3 years later, every team in the league has some version of the Read-O in their playbook. TT changed the sport.

They also never tried to run a West Coast offense with him.

The Patriots did.

RG3 was great his first year. But then he got hurt

On two passing plays

which has really hurt his ability to be mobile.

Griffin still looks like a big, fast, talented runner to me, and you don't handle the ball with your ankles. They took away his best assets by phasing out the Pistol/Read, which most of the play-action success he had was based on.

You're misinformed about the 49ers offense. The 49ers never ran an option scheme. They have option plays (zone read and an Oregon style triple option for the most part) in the playbook but they've never been the focus of the offense.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330112025

Now I've seen something like 90% of Kaep's NFL snaps. To say he failed miserably is absurd. Take a look at his numbers compared to the other two and tell me he's failed miserably. His issue is that he hasn't progressed as much as hoped to this point. His development curve has flattened out but he hasn't regressed to failure.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400554289

The only thing these guys have in common is that they played in college offenses that involved the option in some form and were then drafted into the NFL

...and then they won, using "college" option plays in crucial situations. And then they lost, when their own coaches took that weapon away from them.

I've been thinking more & more that if Vince Lombardi were around today, his 3 QB's would be Denard Robinson, Tim Tebow and Jordan Lynch, he would spend his "QB money" on a dominant defense, and the team would run 50+ times a game and win the Super Bowl 14-10 while everybody made fun of them.

Not too far removed from what CPJ has described as what his NFL strategy would be.
 
Last edited:
Top