NIL, Transfers, and Stratospheric Salaries. What Is the Future of GT Football and College Football in General?

takethepoints

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5,920
I think this was Clawson's key point. I don't think he was actually suggesting "no rules", but that rules should factor in the reality that some most coaches take the approach of "If you ain't cheating you ain't trying", so any rules should take enforceability into account. Otherwise, you just end up penalizing the ones who attempt to follow rules.
I always liked Bob Devaney's take on this. As he once said, "I don't want to cheat so much that we get penalized. Just enough to be investigated." We may be beyond that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The choice is easy: either the NCAA regulates football or Congress will. If the sport becomes outright corrupt - well, ok, more corrupt - then the football public will demand something be done. And something will be. God knows what.
 

g0lftime

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5,473
I always liked Bob Devaney's take on this. As he once said, "I don't want to cheat so much that we get penalized. Just enough to be investigated." We may be beyond that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The choice is easy: either the NCAA regulates football or Congress will. If the sport becomes outright corrupt - well, ok, more corrupt - then the football public will demand something be done. And something will be. God knows what.
The NCAA wasn't able to do it before so what makes anyone think they can in the future. The whole enforcement premise was based on the presidents of the member institutions agreeing to follow their own rules. A lot of them did and several had no regard to compliance but were only interested in the success of their athletic programs. Many presidents were not interested in their athletic programs and turned it over to their AD for managing compliance per a statement by the former UNC Chancellor during the AFAM investigation. He is no longer there BTW.
 

WrongShadeOfGold

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
349
I always liked Bob Devaney's take on this. As he once said, "I don't want to cheat so much that we get penalized. Just enough to be investigated." We may be beyond that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The choice is easy: either the NCAA regulates football or Congress will. If the sport becomes outright corrupt - well, ok, more corrupt - then the football public will demand something be done. And something will be. God knows what.
The problem with your theory about the football public demanding change is that the vast majority of the football public is made up of fans of the top 10-15 largest football schools. These top 10-15 schools are the only ones with a legitimate chance to win and they all think they can so why would they want to change the system that favors them? Unfortunately schools like us will always be vastly outnumbered which means nothing will change that benefits us. Just look at the Board of Regents in Georgia. It is dominated by mutts so GT can never get any changes through that favor us. Sorry to sound so defeatist but unfortunately I'm also a realist that sees the changes to the game.
 

Treb1982

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Messages
453
Location
Augusta, GA
It could be just me but I've lost almost all interest in college football (outside of Tech).

1) NIL deals: No rules or structure (wild wild west)

2) Transfer rules: No regulations

3) Weed rule changes: Now players can smoke dope and fail drug tests 3 times with no consequences.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/2022/03/01/ncaa-loosens-marijuana-thc-policy/

4) SAT rule changes: Kids still don't have to take the SAT to get into school just grade average of 2.3.

https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-center-covid-19

To me these rule changes have completely changed college football and tuned it into the NFL with worse players.

Hopefully things will change but probably not.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,830
It could be just me but I've lost almost all interest in college football (outside of Tech).

1) NIL deals: No rules or structure (wild wild west)

2) Transfer rules: No regulations

3) Weed rule changes: Now players can smoke dope and fail drug tests 3 times with no consequences.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/2022/03/01/ncaa-loosens-marijuana-thc-policy/

4) SAT rule changes: Kids still don't have to take the SAT to get into school just grade average of 2.3.

https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-center-covid-19

To me these rule changes have completely changed college football and tuned it into the NFL with worse players.

Hopefully things will change but probably not.
Imagine one of your top 3 issues with college sports right now being lesser restrictions on marijuana, lmao.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,920
The problem with your theory about the football public demanding change is that the vast majority of the football public is made up of fans of the top 10-15 largest football schools. These top 10-15 schools are the only ones with a legitimate chance to win and they all think they can so why would they want to change the system that favors them? Unfortunately schools like us will always be vastly outnumbered which means nothing will change that benefits us. Just look at the Board of Regents in Georgia. It is dominated by mutts so GT can never get any changes through that favor us. Sorry to sound so defeatist but unfortunately I'm also a realist that sees the changes to the game.
If this was any system but ours I might agree. But remember there are 538 members of Congress, most of them from states that don't have top 10 - 15 football programs or from states that have those and other programs (think Michigan and Michigan State or Oregon and Oregon State) that want to be competitive. If enough Tech fans got on the bandwagon I'm pretty sure that the rep for the 5th district would listen. And once Congress gets involved - just a matter of time, imho - the BoR won't mean squat; it'll be a matter of federal law. The threat of that might be enough to let good sense prevail.

But … maybe the NCAA will settle things out in a couple of years and we'll see something like order reassert itself. Until then or until Congress intervenes it'll be a Wild West show.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,987
It could be just me but I've lost almost all interest in college football (outside of Tech).

1) NIL deals: No rules or structure (wild wild west)

2) Transfer rules: No regulations

3) Weed rule changes: Now players can smoke dope and fail drug tests 3 times with no consequences.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/2022/03/01/ncaa-loosens-marijuana-thc-policy/

4) SAT rule changes: Kids still don't have to take the SAT to get into school just grade average of 2.3.

https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-center-covid-19

To me these rule changes have completely changed college football and tuned it into the NFL with worse players.

Hopefully things will change but probably not.
I am getting tired of the half in half out gtaa football plan.
I am not sure what we can do.

PAST
We used to be a small college that graduated a very large nuber of very excellent engineers and were at the top in football

Now we are a giant school compared to our academic sister schools who did not greatly expand. Some of these sister schools are in Patriot Conference (which is our worse case football future). Buckell used to be a national football power back in day.

NOW
We graduate a giant number excellent engineers and business types. 100% of TECH COURSES ARE CHALLENGING.

We have no closely affiliated medical school which limits our ability to compete with our super large AAU brothers. No AAU in south except gt, Uf, Ut .
The big AAU all do medical researchand other resesrch while all we do is makes stuff and do stuff for DOD. Its too bad that gt and Emory are not strongly connected to offer some non engr courses that athletes could find desirable. We could be a Stanford in Atltanta providing elite academicly challenging. The $$ impact on Georgia would be astounding.

FUTURE in football is not bright if we must have 99.9999% Tech classes / courses that are very hard and aren't of interest to 90% of football players. Are we big enough to fight for being allowed some flexibility? I owned a part of a texas based company that had great engineers from the in state universities. The UT engrs were really good across the board. But UT football players had plenty of options they wanted and where there is way less academic rigor.

FOOTBALL - PORTAL COMPETITION.
UA booster told me their one of there ol guys left to go to Mia because they would not match the 800k.

RIGHT NOW.
Going to watch NFL San Francisco play Philadelphia.
 
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forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
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8,151
Location
North Shore, Chicago
I am getting tired of the half in half out gtaa football plan.
I am not sure what we can do.

PAST
We used to be a small college that graduated a very large nuber of very excellent engineers and were at the top in football

Now we are a giant school compared to our academic sister schools who did not greatly expand. Some of these sister schools are in Patriot Conference (which is our worse case football future). Buckell used to be a national football power back in day.

NOW
We graduate a giant number excellent engineers and business types. 100% of TECH COURSES ARE CHALLENGING.

We have no closely affiliated medical school which limits our ability to compete with our super large AAU brothers. No AAU in south except gt, Uf, Ut .
The big AAU all do medical researchand other resesrch while all we do is makes stuff and do stuff for DOD. Its too bad that gt and Emory are not strongly connected to offer some non engr courses that athletes could find desirable. We could be a Stanford in Atltanta providing elite academicly challenging. The $$ impact on Georgia would be astounding.

FUTURE in football is not bright if we must have 99.9999% Tech classes / courses that are very hard and aren't of interest to 90% of football players. Are we big enough to fight for being allowed some flexibility? I owned a part of a texas based company that had great engineers from the in state universities. The UT engrs were really good across the board. But UT football players had plenty of options they wanted and where there is way less academic rigor.

FOOTBALL - PORTAL COMPETITION.
UA booster told me their one of there ol guys left to go to Mia because they would not match the 800k.

RIGHT NOW.
Going to watch NFL San Francisco play Philadelphia.
We're a public institute, so Stanford is not a good comparison, in my opinion. I'd say Cal Berkeley or Purdue are our closest in terms of the type of school, but they're much bigger. In terms of undergraduate size, UVa and UNC are more our size (17k, 17k, 19k). We're not a behemoth school. Our online graduate program artificially inflates our numbers.
 
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iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,987
We're a public institute, so Stanford is not a good comparison, in my opinion. I'd say Cal Berkeley or Purdue are our closest in terms of the type of school, but they're much bigger. In terms of undergraduate size, UVa and UNC are more our size (17k, 17k, 19k). We're not a behemoth school. Our online graduate program artificially inflates our numbers.
Sorry i picked a " private" AAU school . Try google AAU map and look at location and size - thought i had mentioned UF or UT. But u get the point = we are half way AAU ( "small" and soley in research to support o Department of Defense. Texas has 2 giant AAU programs while GEORGIA has gt. STATE could easily arrange for gt expansion and authorize work and classes w emory ga state. ) The prez needs to lobby for ways to get more course flexibility.

The old gt and the old bucknells, holy crosses. etc were about the same size. Now we are many times their size. The prez can find room for a few more less than perfect students.
( not thugs)

With these limits of course offerings and high standards, dont we need alumni to donate way more?
 

forensicbuzz

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Messages
8,151
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Sorry i picked a " private" AAU school . Try google AAU map and look at location and size - thought i had mentioned UF or UT. But u get the point = we are half way AAU ( "small" and soley in research to support o Department of Defense. Texas has 2 giant AAU programs while GEORGIA has gt. STATE could easily arrange for gt expansion and authorize work and classes w emory ga state. ) The prez needs to lobby for ways to get more course flexibility.

The old gt and the old bucknells, holy crosses. etc were about the same size. Now we are many times their size. The prez can find room for a few more less than perfect students.
( not thugs)

With these limits of course offerings and high standards, dont we need alumni to donate way more?
Would love for Tech to add a College of Education, A College of Performing Arts, A College of Nursing, a med school, and a law school. That would round us out nicely. With that, we could compete with any Research University in the US.

Stanford and Northwestern are excellent comparison schools, but they have way more flexibility because they're private. I suggested like-sized public schools because I thought it would be more apples-to-apples. UVa and UNC are both public schools of similar size and AAU schools. Our undergraduate population is still pretty small in comparison. Total on-campus is still about 1/2 of the big schools, if not less.

I can imagine that many of these kids would gravitate towards education (thinking of going into coaching). Just one man's opinion.
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,147
If some college fans don't come to terms with the new college sports, they might as well stop following college sports altogether. That genie ain't going back in the bottle. GT needs to adjust to the new normal or continue to be disappointed.
What does "adjust" mean? The "new normal" is a thousand times more about the $$$ than it's ever been. I don't see any way for GT to compete on those terms ... that is as long as we're running the same stuff and going after the same coaches and players as those with way more $$$. How can we "adjust"?
 

Techster

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Messages
17,876
What does "adjust" mean? The "new normal" is a thousand times more about the $$$ than it's ever been. I don't see any way for GT to compete on those terms ... that is as long as we're running the same stuff and going after the same coaches and players as those with way more $$$. How can we "adjust"?

I'm not sure what you're asking that you didn't answer yourself in your questions.

The college sports landscape now is what it is. NIL, skyrocketing coaching salaries, transfer portal, etc. Does that put GT at a disadvantage? Yes, but now it's up to find a way to neutralize those disadvantages. In terms of money, GT had a gift handed to us in the form of B1G membership almost 15 years ago, but we turned it down. When the Grant of Rights expires, and if GT gets passed over by the B1G that go around, that will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in GT sports history....along with leaving the SEC.

In terms of "adjustment" from a fan's perspective, and this is aimed more towards the older group of our fanbase, we need to understand that the NCAA is now just a dog and pony show...gone are the days of the romantic notion of "amateur student athletes". The sooner we grasp the concept that SAs now want monetary compensation in the form of "NIL", the less we'll be disappointed. SAs getting paid is the new reality. Either accept it, or move on to following High School sports or your kid's pound ball team. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to "running the same stuff and going after the same coaches". I've said since I've been part of this board that GT is a school that requires a "schematic advantage" or development advantage type staff. We just fired a coach that wanted to do things like everyone else, and it will go down as one of the biggest hiring blunders in GT history.
 

LT 1967

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
243
I am getting tired of the half in half out gtaa football plan.
I am not sure what we can do.

PAST
We used to be a small college that graduated a very large nuber of very excellent engineers and were at the top in football

Now we are a giant school compared to our academic sister schools who did not greatly expand. Some of these sister schools are in Patriot Conference (which is our worse case football future). Buckell used to be a national football power back in day.

NOW
We graduate a giant number excellent engineers and business types. 100% of TECH COURSES ARE CHALLENGING.

We have no closely affiliated medical school which limits our ability to compete with our super large AAU brothers. No AAU in south except gt, Uf, Ut .
The big AAU all do medical researchand other resesrch while all we do is makes stuff and do stuff for DOD. Its too bad that gt and Emory are not strongly connected to offer some non engr courses that athletes could find desirable. We could be a Stanford in Atltanta providing elite academicly challenging. The $$ impact on Georgia would be astounding.

FUTURE in football is not bright if we must have 99.9999% Tech classes / courses that are very hard and aren't of interest to 90% of football players. Are we big enough to fight for being allowed some flexibility? I owned a part of a texas based company that had great engineers from the in state universities. The UT engrs were really good across the board. But UT football players had plenty of options they wanted and where there is way less academic rigor.

FOOTBALL - PORTAL COMPETITION.
UA booster told me their one of there ol guys left to go to Mia because they would not match the 800k.

RIGHT NOW.
Going to watch NFL San Francisco play Philadelphia.

Georgia Tech University would sound fine to me.

Academic Expansion with a larger range of Majors would likely be the only way to have the kind of Highly competitive Sports program many of us would like.
 

yeti92

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,671
Georgia Tech University would sound fine to me.
Half Baked Boo GIF
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,147
I'm not sure what you're asking that you didn't answer yourself in your questions.

The college sports landscape now is what it is. NIL, skyrocketing coaching salaries, transfer portal, etc. Does that put GT at a disadvantage? Yes, but now it's up to find a way to neutralize those disadvantages. In terms of money, GT had a gift handed to us in the form of B1G membership almost 15 years ago, but we turned it down. When the Grant of Rights expires, and if GT gets passed over by the B1G that go around, that will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in GT sports history....along with leaving the SEC.

In terms of "adjustment" from a fan's perspective, and this is aimed more towards the older group of our fanbase, we need to understand that the NCAA is now just a dog and pony show...gone are the days of the romantic notion of "amateur student athletes". The sooner we grasp the concept that SAs now want monetary compensation in the form of "NIL", the less we'll be disappointed. SAs getting paid is the new reality. Either accept it, or move on to following High School sports or your kid's pound ball team. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to "running the same stuff and going after the same coaches". I've said since I've been part of this board that GT is a school that requires a "schematic advantage" or development advantage type staff. We just fired a coach that wanted to do things like everyone else, and it will go down as one of the biggest hiring blunders in GT history.
Then we are in total agreement.
My opinion is that (in all probability) we will not compete well going forward in this environment unless we do something very different that gives us a schematic advantage and negates our monetary/recruiting weakness. I see one obvious, proven solution. On another GT board if you even mention that solution, you get jumped by a raging, irrational mob. I have suffered on that board, and it's awful. I loved this board back in the day and am finding my way back here and getting my memory jogged about what a rational, good-spirited conversation feels like. On that other board, when a typical font would type something like "we need to come to terms and adjust to this new normal", it seemed like what they meant logically was that we basically need to create tons of money ... by magic.

This new environment actually creates one new key advantage to that obvious, proven solution: The big argument against it was that it supposedly created a recruiting disadvantage (I disagree with that notion). Well, with NIL, now recruiting becomes more about a bottom line of $-figures rather than a charismatic recruiter, scheme, school, prestige, or other factors. We would save a significant amount of money in the coaching salaries by not playing the same game as everyone else in that regard, and we would only need to spend significant money on a few key difference makers per cycle to have an unstoppable offense. All of this money saved could then be directed toward defensive coaching and players.

Now, one might argue that there's no point in discussing this because we've already signed the contract and have what we will have for the next four years. Yep, that's true, but that also applies to pretty much every topic and conversation on a message board. And, I am certainly pulling for our coaches and team to succeed.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,767
Then we are in total agreement.
My opinion is that (in all probability) we will not compete well going forward in this environment unless we do something very different that gives us a schematic advantage and negates our monetary/recruiting weakness. I see one obvious, proven solution. On another GT board if you even mention that solution, you get jumped by a raging, irrational mob. I have suffered on that board, and it's awful. I loved this board back in the day and am finding my way back here and getting my memory jogged about what a rational, good-spirited conversation feels like. On that other board, when a typical font would type something like "we need to come to terms and adjust to this new normal", it seemed like what they meant logically was that we basically need to create tons of money ... by magic.

This new environment actually creates one new key advantage to that obvious, proven solution: The big argument against it was that it supposedly created a recruiting disadvantage (I disagree with that notion). Well, with NIL, now recruiting becomes more about a bottom line of $-figures rather than a charismatic recruiter, scheme, school, prestige, or other factors. We would save a significant amount of money in the coaching salaries by not playing the same game as everyone else in that regard, and we would only need to spend significant money on a few key difference makers per cycle to have an unstoppable offense. All of this money saved could then be directed toward defensive coaching and players.

Now, one might argue that there's no point in discussing this because we've already signed the contract and have what we will have for the next four years. Yep, that's true, but that also applies to pretty much every topic and conversation on a message board. And, I am certainly pulling for our coaches and team to succeed.
Your thoughts should always be part of the mix and should never just be categorically rejected. Tech is a unique player in the field of athletics and has succeeded when thinking out of the box rather than doing what everyone else is doing. I don’t know what that would specifically look like at this time but agree that we need to always keep in mind alternative schemes and innovations.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,987
Your thoughts should always be part of the mix and should never just be categorically rejected. Tech is a unique player in the field of athletics and has succeeded when thinking out of the box rather than doing what everyone else is doing. I don’t know what that would specifically look like at this time but agree that we need to always keep in mind alternative schemes and innovations.
Cpj had outside the box offense and ast coaches that were offensive specialists in his scheme. They tinkered w the scheme to stay ahead of defense and the every more increasing blocking restrictions.

When cpj left the specialists coaches did not get great jobs.

Key says his organization will make sure grad ast, ast coaches , and coordinatoors are effective and if so they will be rewarded w more authority and $. He believes we will have some good folks leave but he wants gt to get reputation for coaches.

I also like that Key thinks its up to his dual coordinators to work together to be innovative.

Having track record of paying for top position coaches is a foundstion that will attract 3 star players w potential.

BUT to be occasionally competitive w the mega p5, our oc and dc need to have ability to at least some times pull off a game winning big play.
 
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g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,473
Cpj had outside the box offense and ast coaches that were offensive specialists in his scheme. They tinkered w the scheme to stay ahead of defense and the every more increasing blocking restrictions.

When cpj left the specialists coaches did not get great jobs.

Key says his organization will make sure grad ast, ast coaches , and coordinatoors are effective and if so they will be rewarded w more authority and $. He believes we will have some good folks leave but he wants gt to get reputation for coaches.

I also like that Key thinks its up to his dual coordinators to work together to be innovative.

Having track record of paying for top position coaches is a foundstion that will attract 3 star players w potential.

BUT to be occasionally competitive w the mega p5, our oc and dc need to have ability to at least some times pull off a game winning big play.
Let's hope the assistant coaches are all on the same page and work well together as a team.
 

LT 1967

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
243


I respect your demonstrative response to my post concerning Tech and expansion of the curriculum.

Is your strong response based on one of the following:

Academic Status/Reputation
Tradition
Uniqueness of Tech
The Word--"University"

I will note that several board-based Universities Rank higher than Tech in the US News racking. CAL---UCLA--Michigan--UVA--UNC

I will be respectful of your thoughts.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,151
Location
North Shore, Chicago
I respect your demonstrative response to my post concerning Tech and expansion of the curriculum.

Is your strong response based on one of the following:

Academic Status/Reputation
Tradition
Uniqueness of Tech
The Word--"University"

I will note that several board-based Universities Rank higher than Tech in the US News racking. CAL---UCLA--Michigan--UVA--UNC

I will be respectful of your thoughts.
I would suggest you look at a rankings panel more relevant and data-focused than USN&WR. While it's nice to rank highly by this group, their criteria for determining where someone sits is arbitrary and, at times, non-sensical.
 
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