NIL in CBB

[MidtownJacket]

I don’t feel sorry for the fruits of their labor, instead I feel sorry for the reality of their circumstances.

I suspect what @Northeast Stinger was saying was that in many ways the student athlete of today has become a piece of “content” to be produced, maintained and enhanced for the sake of entertainment and financial gain, as opposed to a young person becoming an adult (and importantly maybe for the first time, doing so in an environment where the school and adults they’re surrounded by are capable of being held accountable for that development).

End interpretation: back to my own view; it’s a failure of the academic institutions which back these athletes in my opinion. It’s also the absolute worst part of college sports for me. I don’t buy the “everyone is a victim” bit for a moment and I also find the whole system of athletics over school reprehensible.

Choose which is the mission, then execute against the mission. If they’re ultimately just masquerading about education call it what it is and make it divorced from the schools.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I don’t feel sorry for the fruits of their labor, instead I feel sorry for the reality of their circumstances.

I suspect what @Northeast Stinger was saying was that in many ways the student athlete of today has become a piece of “content” to be produced, maintained and enhanced for the sake of entertainment and financial gain, as opposed to a young person becoming an adult (and importantly maybe for the first time, doing so in an environment where the school and adults they’re surrounded by are capable of being held accountable for that development).

End interpretation: back to my own view; it’s a failure of the academic institutions which back these athletes in my opinion. It’s also the absolute worst part of college sports for me. I don’t buy the “everyone is a victim” bit for a moment and I also find the whole system of athletics over school reprehensible.

Choose which is the mission, then execute against the mission. If they’re ultimately just masquerading about education call it what it is and make it divorced from the schools.

You understood what I was saying and said it better. The “everyone is a victim” idea was said by someone else. I agree with you 100%.

 

[MidtownJacket]

You understood what I was saying and said it better. The “everyone is a victim” idea was said by someone else. I agree with you 100%.

Thanks for the compliment and also, my apologies - I didn’t mean to conflate the victimization fictionalization with your point. I was responding back to broader concept and throwing my voice in beside your points above.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

You understood what I was saying and said it better. The “everyone is a victim” idea was said by someone else. I agree with you 100%.

You may not have said it, but it was easily inferred. Further, I never actually accused you of saying it, so there is that. It was just a natural extension to ramblinjacket's retort that Marilyn Monroe was not a victim.

 

[cpf2001]

There’s way too much of an urge to paint in black and white here. If we can’t imagine a system that could both be financially beneficial to people and more exploitive than it has to be than it’s hard to have a real conversation at all, because the world is full of nuance. This is only a discussion that exists in shades of gray.

It reminds me of the concussion situation. How much damage does someone have to take vs how much money did they have to make for us to want to change things, or not? There’s no easy black and white answer there either.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You may not have said it, but it was easily inferred. Further, I never actually accused you of saying it, so there is that. It was just a natural extension to ramblinjacket's retort that Marilyn Monroe was not a victim.

Again, I never said MM was a victim. I described someone who, given her mental state and the exploitive industry she was in at the time, could have profited from a mentor / counselor. That’s just my opinion. If people don’t like her as an example, don’t nit-pick, find a different example. Unless you think student athletes are perfectly capable of navigating a system than none of the adults on this site can even figure out.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Again, I never said MM was a victim. I described someone who, given her mental state and the exploitive industry she was in at the time, could have profited from a mentor / counselor. That’s just my opinion. If people don’t like her as an example, don’t nit-pick, find a different example. Unless you think student athletes are perfectly capable of navigating a system than none of the adults on this site can even figure out.

You portrayed her as a victim. Just as portray all the student athletes as victims. If that is not your intention, then I suggest choosing your words better.

Also, I never said you called her a victim so, take it up with someone else.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You portrayed her as a victim. Just as portray all the student athletes as victims. If that is not your intention, then I suggest choosing your words better.

Also, I never said you called her a victim so, take it up with someone else.

You’re absolutely right I never called her a victim. Thank you.

Now, about those student athletes. Do they need guidance? A simple yes or no will do. If yes, what kind of guidance? If no, then your work is done here.

THAT’S the conversation we are trying to have.

 

[forensicbuzz]

You’re absolutely right I never called her a victim. Thank you.

Now, about those student athletes. Do they need guidance? A simple yes or no will do. If yes, what kind of guidance? If no, then your work is done here.

THAT’S the conversation we are trying to have.

They’ve always needed guidance. The problem is so many (then and now) are getting bad guidance from either ignorant people or people with their own agenda.

 

[forensicbuzz]

In my opinion, S-As are not victims, but with the influx of money into the college football and basketball industry that is being funneled into other people’s pockets ($10M/year for a head coach, average between $2-$3M at P5 schools), they have been exploited. These AAs with budgets over $100M is ridiculous.

 

[ramblinjacket]

You’re absolutely right I never called her a victim. Thank you.

Now, about those student athletes. Do they need guidance? A simple yes or no will do. If yes, what kind of guidance? If no, then your work is done here.

THAT’S the conversation we are trying to have.

You and others use a lot of language that suggests people are victims. Owned, forced, buffeted, exploited. That's why you received the reply from me.

So to try to help get the conversation back on track...
Yes people generally can use some good guidance and not all guidance is good which can be innocent enough most of the time. Life is complicated.
However, your suggested bureaucracy that controls the guidance that people receive is not a solution.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You and others use a lot of language that suggests people are victims. Owned, forced, buffeted, exploited. That's why you received the reply from me.

So to try to help get the conversation back on track...
Yes people generally can use some good guidance and not all guidance is good which can be innocent enough most of the time. Life is complicated.
However, your suggested bureaucracy that controls the guidance that people receive is not a solution.

To clarify: The “bureaucracy” did not control the guidance.

It offered guidance. Most high school students can’t afford an agent. This offered them an option they could use, not use, use for a period until not needed, or whatever. No control. No forcing.

The point is that having everyone adrift in a system that nobody understands yet is only going to make the current debacle worse.

I don’t know who should take charge of this, since I see downsides with whoever does, but I was spit-balling an intermediate step that at least preserves some of the guidance/protection that the NCAA was supposed to provide.

Thank you for letting me clarify.

 

[MidtownJacket]

I do believe schools broadly are failing many of the young adults who come through their doors (across the whole public education system from kindergarten through doctoral studies).

I’m fortunate to have had parents who were capable of moving to a good school system and had the education, inclination, time and financial wherewithal to be involved in my own education beyond the great teachers I had through them moving based off quality of schools, but that’s not guaranteed to our Nation’s youth.

Back to the NIL; I couldn’t agree more that the money generated by college sports has been (for far too long) concentrated in the wrong areas. Head Football Coaches making 5-10 million a year is nuts. That’s more than MANY NFL head coaches. This article is dated, but directionally still on par: https://www.sportico.com/personalit...coaches-2022-college-football-nfl-1234696735/

As an example, BAMA brought in 179M in 2022 revenue from sports alone and spent 170M in the same year. Source: https://www.tuscaloosanews.com/stor...cial-report-2022-debt-greg-byrne/69858097007/

How do you not have kids who are unnaturally talented being treated differently in this scenario?

When I hear about a kid getting 250K a year to play it makes sense to me. They are, after all, the product.

What I’d love to eventually see, is college athletics investing into funding the scholarships and staffing budgets, but also provide financial literacy and estate planning to kids who schools register as being paid above a pre-set amount. A kid making essentially a stipend of a few thousand a semester can manage it, but just look at the 30 for 30 ESPN put out a decade ago: ESPN's 'Broke' Looks At The Many Ways Athletes Lose Their Money : NPR (pre NIL) it estimated 78% of NFL / 60% of NBA pros had financial problems within 5 years of retiring.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

You’re absolutely right I never called her a victim. Thank you.

Now, about those student athletes. Do they need guidance? A simple yes or no will do. If yes, what kind of guidance? If no, then your work is done here.

THAT’S the conversation we are trying to have.

All young adults need guidance. Navigating the complex world is tough for everyone. These student athletes get more guidance than everyone else in school. They are also recieve a ton of perks (preferences in dorms, early class enrollment, free tutoring, etc.) from the school in a way the other students are not close to being treated. I am not sure what you think the obligation needs to be for the school, but my guess is probably more than they are equipped to handle. I know for a fact that Tech provides guidance to student-athletes on how to work the various NIL paths, how to deal with the tax implications of their NIL payments, and how to create and manage their own brand. I am positive other schools do the same. The schools need to draw the line somewhere. At some point when does it start becoming the individual's responsibility?

Let me add, 90% of student-athletes will not play professional sports. The best support and guidance they can get should come from their family telling them to get a good degree and take their academics seriously, but not focus on maximizing their college income in a profession where their career earnings outside of college will be virtually nonexistent.

 

[cpf2001]

I kinda wish we could put salary caps on the administration and facilities more than anything else. We’re well past using football revenue to give other sports scholarships, after all. A bunch of people making money by paying themselves first instead of players, and who get more the more they can convince fans to have a fundraising arms race instead of a level playing field, aren’t gonna fix anything by themselves.

One of the reasons I keep going back to the pro union model is that I don’t see many other suggestions that give the players a seat at the table at all.

 

[cpf2001]

What I’d love to eventually see, is college athletics investing into funding the scholarships and staffing budgets, but also provide financial literacy and estate planning to kids who schools register as being paid above a pre-set amount. A kid making essentially a stipend of a few thousand a semester can manage it, but just look at the 30 for 30 ESPN put out a decade ago: ESPN's 'Broke' Looks At The Many Ways Athletes Lose Their Money : NPR (pre NIL) it estimated 78% of NFL / 60% of NBA pros had financial problems within 5 years of retiring.

The NBAPA has done work in recent years to buff up the pension plan for retired players - including for previously retired players. I think structural things like that would go a long way, but nobody with any influence in the college game is incentivized to push for it. Deferred income would go a long way to avoid the traps of large-but-short-term-windfalls. You could also do things like more scholarship and associated financial cost guarantees even if you don't finish initially, or don't live up to coaches' expectations, or even if you transfer (I don't think it would be bad to make programs more careful with giving out scholarship offers to players they don't intend to play much, and it would reduce the cost associated with making a bad decision there for the players, which seems like a overall good tradeoff).

EDIT: these are also things that would be easy to structure in ways that help with continuity and competitive balance, too. Incentivize sticking around by giving more lifetime benefits for 2 or 3 or 4 year stints. Add some carrot to things instead of just the traditional stick of "don't do that or you lose eligibility."

 

[Northeast Stinger]

All young adults need guidance. Navigating the complex world is tough for everyone. These student athletes get more guidance than everyone else in school. They are also recieve a ton of perks (preferences in dorms, early class enrollment, free tutoring, etc.) from the school in a way the other students are not close to being treated. I am not sure what you think the obligation needs to be for the school, but my guess is probably more than they are equipped to handle. I know for a fact that Tech provides guidance to student-athletes on how to work the various NIL paths, how to deal with the tax implications of their NIL payments, and how to create and manage their own brand. I am positive other schools do the same. The schools need to draw the line somewhere. At some point when does it start becoming the individual's responsibility?

Let me add, 90% of student-athletes will not play professional sports. The best support and guidance they can get should come from their family telling them to get a good degree and take their academics seriously, but not focus on maximizing their college income in a profession where their career earnings outside of college will be virtually nonexistent.

I don’t disagree with any of this. Well, except the idea that schools have all got this covered.

The anecdotal evidence suggests not all schools are helping navigate the new NIL landscape. I also think guidance should come even BEFORE picking a school. High school guidance counselors are a joke in many schools and I seriously doubt they understand NIL. Many parents of athletes are not equipped to give such advice. NIL is complicated, and not at all transparent, note the fact that nobody on this site understands it, and add to this the number of parents of athletes who never went to college.

If you think colleges have got this covered that’s great. I’m not so sure. But my idea actually involved relieving the colleges of some of this burden by assigning an agent to each athlete. But I explained all that before. Not mandatory that they accept them or even follow their advice.

Anyway, maybe this will all shake out and be fine. But right now it doesn’t look good.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

I don’t disagree with any of this. Well, except the idea that schools have all got this covered.

The anecdotal evidence suggests not all schools are helping navigate the new NIL landscape. I also think guidance should come even BEFORE picking a school. High school guidance counselors are a joke in many schools and I seriously doubt they understand NIL. Many parents of athletes are not equipped to give such advice. NIL is complicated, and not at all transparent, note the fact that nobody on this site understands it, and add to this the number of parents of athletes who never went to college.

If you think colleges have got this covered that’s great. I’m not so sure. But my idea actually involved relieving the colleges of some of this burden by assigning an agent to each athlete. But I explained all that before. Not mandatory that they accept them or even follow their advice.

Anyway, maybe this will all shake out and be fine. But right now it doesn’t look good.

I never said schools have got this covered.

 

[slugboy]

I have tried to prepare my sons (still teenagers) for the future, but if someone granted them six figures of NIL (or even 40k) I’d wear myself out trying to get them to be responsible with some of it.

There are quite a few athletes out there with no responsible counsel, and some with only irresponsible counsel.

At least the NFL players’ association (union) makes their players put money into a pension. The NCAA should be more protective than the pros, as a minimum bar.

And as an aside, if you don’t think that Hollywood took advantage and still takes advantage of people, oof. Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, Mira Sorvino, the list goes on and on. Just because they were adults doesn’t mean that they weren’t screwed over.

Some of these athletes are getting big bucks, but the more money involved the more sharp dealers are involved.

 

[YlJacket]

There are a range of opinions on where the system is headed. But there are a fair number of aggressive opinions that college is simply going to go the way of pro sports with football, breaking off from the rest of the Olympic sports and colleges fielding fully funded football teams where players are employees under collective bargaining, and there is no money to fund any of the Olympic sports. basketball may or may not be included in that deal, but given the increasing level of support top players are giving the G league, I expect basketball will be more of an Olympic sport.

My own personal opinion is, it’s going to be a brutal next decade as all of this gets sorted out