NIL in CBB

[ESPNjacket]

Hating the NCAA is easy, but it is now irrelevant with regard to NIL. The NCAA punted that ball (after several illegal procedure penalties). The current situation is a mess, but also out of the NCAA control.

You quoted my post but don't seem to understand it.

 

[orientalnc]

You quoted my post but don't seem to understand it.

You are correct that I quoted your post, but wrong that I do not understand it. My comment was related to fact that the essay you quoted, written in 2015, has nothing to do with today's NIL environment (which is the subject of this thread). Your main point in these recent posts seems to be your dislike of the NCAA. Welcome to the masses. Maybe you should start a "History of the NCAA" thread.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You are correct that I quoted your post, but wrong that I do not understand it. My comment was related to fact that the essay you quoted, written in 2015, has nothing to do with today's NIL environment (which is the subject of this thread). Your main point in these recent posts seems to be your dislike of the NCAA. Welcome to the masses. Maybe you should start a "History of the NCAA" thread.

Spoken like a moderator person who used to keep things on topic but is now going to be perceived as snarky because you are back with the hoi polloi.

 

[orientalnc]

Spoken like a moderator person who used to keep things on topic but is now going to be perceived as snarky because you are back with the hoi polloi.

You are probably correct.

 

[ESPNjacket]

You are correct that I quoted your post, but wrong that I do not understand it. My comment was related to fact that the essay you quoted, written in 2015, has nothing to do with today's NIL environment (which is the subject of this thread). Your main point in these recent posts seems to be your dislike of the NCAA. Welcome to the masses. Maybe you should start a "History of the NCAA" thread.

You indeed don't understand. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Again, hard to wade through your long response because you continue to put words in my mouth. Marx was right about what can happen in capitalism. I was clear when I said “one thing” he was right about. If things get out of balance then, indeed, things can go awry. You say if that happens it’s no longer capitalism. That’s a distinction without a difference.

I don’t see the need to continue this because you are clearly triggered in some way by Marx that makes you defensive about capitalism, even when it goes wrong.

I’ll repeat my sentiment one more time. I like capitalism when it works. When it works it’s the best system in the world. But it can also go wrong and create an unnecessarily large number of losers, which is what I think is currently happening in the NCAA.

It’s ok for you to disagree with this. Really, it is. But don’t try to take a sentence out of context and base all your arguments around a straw man.

LOL! I am triggered by communists and those extolling the virtues of Marxism. Please ignore me, comrade!

 

[slugboy]

Hating the NCAA is easy, but it is now irrelevant with regard to NIL. The NCAA punted that ball (after several illegal procedure penalties). The current situation is a mess, but also out of the NCAA control.

I don’t know what the NCAA has done in the past few years to control much of anything. Maybe there’s a lot of quiet background work going on that I can’t see, but they seem to have taken an absentee approach to NIL, tampering, or even enforcing rules for wealthy schools.

Yes, I’m a Tech fan and I root against UGA (but mainly root FOR Tech). But what’s happening in Athens with coaches running interference with local law enforcement seems to go beyond “institutional lack of control” and leans towards enablement and support. If we did the same thing 5 years ago, where people died in a car wreck and we had a coach covering it up, we’d be hit by scholarship limits at the very least. Frankly, the NCAA of 2012 would try to crush us.

I work with lawyers all the time. This doesn’t seem like the behavior of committed people following legal guidance; this is neglect.

 

[ESPNjacket]

I don’t know what the NCAA has done in the past few years to control much of anything. Maybe there’s a lot of quiet background work going on that I can’t see, but they seem to have taken an absentee approach to NIL, tampering, or even enforcing rules for wealthy schools.

Yes, I’m a Tech fan and I root against UGA (but mainly root FOR Tech). But what’s happening in Athens with coaches running interference with local law enforcement seems to go beyond “institutional lack of control” and leans towards enablement and support. If we did the same thing 5 years ago, where people died in a car wreck and we had a coach covering it up, we’d be hit by scholarship limits at the very least. Frankly, the NCAA of 2012 would try to crush us.

I work with lawyers all the time. This doesn’t seem like the behavior of committed people following legal guidance; this is neglect.

Like some government agencies the infraction enforcement part of the NCAA is more concerned with record keeping and following procedures than they are about actual rules violations. As Jay Bilas and others have been pointing out for years, there are way too many rules for there not to be violations. The record keeping of those violations and the documentation of those internal treatments of those violations are what they really care about. The reason I mention this is that not keeping those records is what is meant by Lack of Institutional Control in an NCAA sense. It doesn't mean they are out of control over there as it means in common usage.

The recent change in leadership is about trying to figure out the NCAA's role going forward. The schools are the NCAA. The schools have to figure out what they want. Like I said earlier, one of the issues with the NCAA is that the schools don't trust each other. Yet the model they have in place is one based on trust, a cooperative approach to infraction enforcement. It obviously has never worked well mostly because it isn't designed to work well.

So after losing in court on some core elements of its reason to exist, the NCAA is trying to fix a system that never worked well. I'm not sure how you get there from here but one thing that's certain is you better have a good idea what there looks like.

The goal I know they still have is to keep student-athletes categorized as amateurs (why I posted the links earlier) to avoid workman's comp and other employee costs. That should be obvious. Other than that, trying to come up with a way to monitor third-party transactions over which they have little to no control is something they want to implement. Good luck!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

LOL! I am triggered by communists and those extolling the virtues of Marxism. Please ignore me, comrade!

Name calling seems to suit you well. But ignore me or keep getting triggered.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I don’t know what the NCAA has done in the past few years to control much of anything. Maybe there’s a lot of quiet background work going on that I can’t see, but they seem to have taken an absentee approach to NIL, tampering, or even enforcing rules for wealthy schools.

Yes, I’m a Tech fan and I root against UGA (but mainly root FOR Tech). But what’s happening in Athens with coaches running interference with local law enforcement seems to go beyond “institutional lack of control” and leans towards enablement and support. If we did the same thing 5 years ago, where people died in a car wreck and we had a coach covering it up, we’d be hit by scholarship limits at the very least. Frankly, the NCAA of 2012 would try to crush us.

I work with lawyers all the time. This doesn’t seem like the behavior of committed people following legal guidance; this is neglect.

Hear, hear!

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Name calling seems to suit you well. But ignore me or keep getting triggered.

Comrade is name calling? I guess.

 

[slugboy]

So after losing in court on some core elements of its reason to exist, the NCAA is trying to fix a system that never worked well. I'm not sure how you get there from here but one thing that's certain is you better have a good idea what there looks like.

The goal I know they still have is to keep student-athletes categorized as amateurs (why I posted the links earlier) to avoid workman's comp and other employee costs. That should be obvious. Other than that, trying to come up with a way to monitor third-party transactions over which they have little to no control is something they want to implement. Good luck!

My impression is that they are in a situation where something needs to be done and they are purposefully doing nothing so someone else WILL do something.

Possibly they hope fans will pressure Congress to take us back to the good old days of “amateurism”.

It’s a bizarre kind of malicious compliance. It’s like letting your house collapse hoping that your neighbors will repair it to avoid the neighborhood eyesore

 

[CEB]

Hating the NCAA is easy, but it is now irrelevant with regard to NIL. The NCAA punted that ball (after several illegal procedure penalties). The current situation is a mess, but also out of the NCAA control.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Comrade is name calling? I guess.

I prefer “brother.”

 

[ESPNjacket]

My impression is that they are in a situation where something needs to be done and they are purposefully doing nothing so someone else WILL do something.

Possibly they hope fans will pressure Congress to take us back to the good old days of “amateurism”.

It’s a bizarre kind of malicious compliance. It’s like letting your house collapse hoping that your neighbors will repair it to avoid the neighborhood eyesore

They have no idea what to do. They means the University Presidents, ADs, and the bureaucrats at the NCAA.

Charlie Baker, the new President, railed the other day about how the NCAA should have put a framework in place for NIL but did nothing. Indeed. The previous folks actually thought they'd win their court cases, which tells you all you need to know about them. I've seen the HQ in Indy and there is no visible plastic bubble around it.

 

[orientalnc]

My impression is that they are in a situation where something needs to be done and they are purposefully doing nothing so someone else WILL do something.

Possibly they hope fans will pressure Congress to take us back to the good old days of “amateurism”.

It’s a bizarre kind of malicious compliance. It’s like letting your house collapse hoping that your neighbors will repair it to avoid the neighborhood eyesore

The problem with college football and men's basketball (and beginning in women's hoops, as well) was the money going to everyone but the players. NIL doesn't really fix that. Neither does the transfer portal. The NCAA wants the student-athlete model to remain, but cannot (or will not) do anything that directly addresses the problems. A few players are getting NIL money that seems like a lot compared to whatever they were getting under the table before NIL. We went from a plantation model to chaos. Someone needs to put some parameters around NIL and conditions for eligibility around the portal. But, most of the players are not getting anything more than a little spending money. The hot mess we have now will kill both sports at the collegiate level if left as is.

What worries me is that allowing a few to get a lot will make a four year scholarship go away just like the flying wedge. That will not hurt the 4* and 5* recruits, but what about those guys busting their tails to get away from an economic system that's trapped their parents and grandparents for generations.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The problem with college football and men's basketball (and beginning in women's hoops, as well) was the money going to everyone but the players. NIL doesn't really fix that. Neither does the transfer portal. The NCAA wants the student-athlete model to remain, but cannot (or will not) do anything that directly addresses the problems. A few players are getting NIL money that seems like a lot compared to whatever they were getting under the table before NIL. We went from a plantation model to chaos. Someone needs to put some parameters around NIL and conditions for eligibility around the portal. But, most of the players are not getting anything more than a little spending money. The hot mess we have now will kill both sports at the collegiate level if left as is.

What worries me is that allowing a few to get a lot will make a four year scholarship go away just like the flying wedge. That will not hurt the 4* and 5* recruits, but what about those guys busting their tails to get away from an economic system that's trapped their parents and grandparents for generations.

Yes.

My reflection on this always leads me back to one thought in particular. Society has always tended to put athletes on a pedestal. They are stars. They tend to get undue attention and adulation.

So, does that make them property? Who owns them? Whoever “owns” the most stars wins? I think a lot of universities understand the intrinsic value of having “stars” on campus, and that doesn’t necessarily have to be in a cynical or exploitative way. That has been a tension in the system for a long time about stars that some schools handle better than others. Some school’s totally lose all integrity.

But what of the human being behind the “star?” These are still people in process, being formed, needing guidance. Does the NCAA care about that? I suspect some colleges still do. I suspect other colleges just think they do or like to pretend they do.

I am reminded of Marylyn Monroe who was an extraordinary talent and human being but wasn’t mature enough or emotionally developed enough to resist the “star” mold that was forced on her every day. So what of the 20 year old sport phenom who creates lots of capital and market value and is simultaneously told they are their own person and yet is being buffeted by larger corporate interests? What 20 year old can possibly navigate in this chaos? Very few.

I almost wonder if all the money generated by big time sports should set aside a fund to supply every player coming out of high school with an agent. Agents would have to be vetted and go through an annual review of their work. Their mission would be simple. Do what is in the best interest of this individual student athlete, protect them from the overwhelming forces pushing and pulling them, and help set them on a path for life. The goal would not be to make the most money or go to the school with the biggest TV market. The goal would be to go where you are the best culture fit / academic fit, and will be fairly compensated, not exploited. And if you discover you want to drop athletics and become an English major so be it.

Every student would be given such an agent. If they find after awhile they don’t need the agent, fine. But no student athlete would just be thrown to the wolves in this current madness. They would at least start with someone who would lay out what the realistic options are, what the trade offs are, and help the athlete find where their heart is.

No agent would work for a university. They work for the student as long as the student wants or needs them.

 

[ramblinjacket]

So, does that make them property? Who owns them? Whoever “owns” the most stars wins? I think a lot of universities understand the intrinsic value of having “stars” on campus, and that doesn’t necessarily have to be in a cynical or exploitative way. That has been a tension in the system for a long time about stars that some schools handle better than others. Some school’s totally lose all integrity.

But what of the human being behind the “star?” These are still people in process, being formed, needing guidance. Does the NCAA care about that? I suspect some colleges still do. I suspect other colleges just think they do or like to pretend they do.

I am reminded of Marylyn Monroe who was an extraordinary talent and human being but wasn’t mature enough or emotionally developed enough to resist the “star” mold that was forced on her every day. So what of the 20 year old sport phenom who creates lots of capital and market value and is simultaneously told they are their own person and yet is being buffeted by larger corporate interests? What 20 year old can possibly navigate in this chaos? Very few.

I almost wonder if all the money generated by big time sports should set aside a fund to supply every player coming out of high school with an agent. Agents would have to be vetted and go through an annual review of their work. Their mission would be simple. Do what is in the best interest of this individual student athlete, protect them from the overwhelming forces pushing and pulling them, and help set them on a path for life. The goal would not be to make the most money or go to the school with the biggest TV market. The goal would be to go where you are the best culture fit / academic fit, and will be fairly compensated, not exploited. And if you discover you want to drop athletics and become an English major so be it.

Every student would be given such an agent. If they find after awhile they don’t need the agent, fine. But no student athlete would just be thrown to the wolves in this current madness. They would at least start with someone who would lay out what the realistic options are, what the trade offs are, and help the athlete find where their heart is.

No agent would work for a university. They work for the student as long as the student wants or needs them.

Maybe I don't understand what you were trying to say but...

• College athletes are not property in any meaningful sense of the word.
• Marilyn Monroe was not a victim or forced to be a star
• Corporate interests are not "buffeting" the athletes.
• "Do what is in the best interest of this individual student athlete" and then you choosing the goals("The goal would not be to make the most money or go to the school with the biggest TV market") are incongruent as you have no idea what is best for each individual athlete.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Maybe I don't understand what you were trying to say but...

• College athletes are not property in any meaningful sense of the word.
• Marilyn Monroe was not a victim or forced to be a star
• Corporate interests are not "buffeting" the athletes.
• "Do what is in the best interest of this individual student athlete" and then you choosing the goals("The goal would not be to make the most money or go to the school with the biggest TV market") are incongruent as you have no idea what is best for each individual athlete.

In the world of make believe, everyone is a victim, including, but not limited to, athletes and movie stars making millions of dollars for a skill that does not make society more productive, reduces hunger or poverty, or extends human life.

Student-athletes, (90%+ will never make it as a professional athlete) who are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of free education, food, room, clothing, stipends and other perks, including now compensation for their NIL, are especially exploited because the schools generate revenue that basically funds and provides scholarship for other other non revenue sports.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Maybe I don't understand what you were trying to say but...

• College athletes are not property in any meaningful sense of the word.
• Marilyn Monroe was not a victim or forced to be a star
• Corporate interests are not "buffeting" the athletes.
• "Do what is in the best interest of this individual student athlete" and then you choosing the goals("The goal would not be to make the most money or go to the school with the biggest TV market") are incongruent as you have no idea what is best for each individual athlete.

A good counselor does not choose for the client.