NewRule Determined Outcome of Saturday Game

[65Jacket]

No one on here has picked up on the controversy at the end of Saturday's Radford game. I am far from knowing everything about the new college rule, but I know from several sources that it was in effect at the end of the game. A lot of other people were not well versed on it including both coaches and the umpires.
The rule cited on the play is that on a walk off home run as Radcliff hit, the game is over when the batter touches first base. The fact that Hall touched Radcliff did not factor in. The first run counted although I am not sure he crossed the plate. Some are saying he was on third and some were saying he was on second. One player said he did not score before Radcliff touched first base.
That is what was being talked about before the game today. I do not know what happens if we were two runs or more behind. I did hear that the score was 9-8 and Radcliff was given a single.
The pre game meeting of the Coaches and Umpires today lasted about seven or eight minutes.It was obvious that they were discussing the rule and that a lot of them were learning something new.

 

[LibertyTurns]

No one on here has picked up on the controversy at the end of Saturday's Radford game. I am far from knowing everything about the new college rule, but I know from several sources that it was in effect at the end of the game. A lot of other people were not well versed on it including both coaches and the umpires.
The rule cited on the play is that on a walk off home run as Radcliff hit, the game is over when the batter touches first base. The fact that Hall touched Radcliff did not factor in. The first run counted although I am not sure he crossed the plate. Some are saying he was on third and some were saying he was on second. One player said he did not score before Radcliff touched first base.
That is what was being talked about before the game today. I do not know what happens if we were two runs or more behind. I did hear that the score was 9-8 and Radcliff was given a single.
The pre game meeting of the Coaches and Umpires today lasted about seven or eight minutes.It was obvious that they were discussing the rule and that a lot of them were learning something new.

I was looking at this last night. Apparently 5-8-d changed the rule at the beginning of last season.

I’m sure our players were fully versed in the rule before doing what they did which caused all the confusion.

 

[THWG]

It just doesn't matter as long as the run crosses home plate and Radcliffe touches 1st. I remember a MLB announcer telling a story where he hit a walk-off grand slam, but the team only needed one run to win. He said as soon as he touched 1st, the team mobbed him and the slam became a single. The team won, but he was pissed because he didn't get a home run and 4 rbis. In the videos that I have seen (I didn't watch it live), the run crossed home before Radcliffe was touched, so it is a moot point. The final should be 9-8 though.

Edit: I believe that Hall also had to touch 2nd to show that he advanced, but I think he did that, so again, it's a moot point.

 

[RoosterJacket]

I was wondering if it would be addressed. It’s like we were the only people even mentioning it last night.

 

[CINCYMETJACKET]

Long time Tech Baseball fan, first time poster. Last time I've seen what happened last night was Robin Ventura's Grand Slam Single in the 1999 playoffs. Link below, for those Braves fans brave enough to watch it. Turned out to be a 1 run single.

 

[FredJacket]

I'm not an expert... but I am curious about these things. Trying to sort out the rule AND exactly what happened on Saturday. I still have questions (see end of this post)... and I do wish Ga Tech would do a better job of publishing an explanation. I'm certain the umpires explained it... right or wrong. It would be nice to get the explanation from the horse's mouth.

This was the situtation:
2 out - this matters
Runner on 1B (Hall) and 2B (Serratos) - this matters because it raises the question of whether Serratos crossed the plate before Radcliff "passed" the preceding runner (Hall).

Rule 8 (below) applies to Radcliff's "passing" of Hall. With 2 outs and a HR and the "pass"... Radcliff would be out (3rd out) and Hall would not have scored since he clearly did not cross home BEFORE the 3rd out. IF there had been less than 2 outs, Hall's run would have counted...assuming he continued to run bases and cross home plate (I think?)

These appear to be the relevant rules to this play:
Rule 8 / SECTION 5
A runner is out when:
m. The individual passes an unobstructed preceding runner before such runner is out. The ball is live; Note With fewer than two outs, if a batter, while running the bases after a home run outside the playing field, passes a preceding runner, the batter is out; but all preceding runners score. With two outs, only those preceding runners score who have touched the plate before the batter is declared out. This is a time play, not an appeal play

Rule 5 / SECTION 8
d. If the score is tied at the end of nine innings, play shall be continued until one team has scored more runs than the other in an equal number of innings, except that if the last team at bat scores the winning run before the third player is out in any inning after the ninth, the game shall terminate and be a regulation game. Note: When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half-inning of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home plate and the batter-runner has touched first base. An exception will be made if fans rush onto the field and physically prevent the runner from touching home plate or the batter-runner from touching first base. In such cases, the umpires shall award the runner the necessary bases with n appeal allowed
[Based on my research, this is the rule "change/add" that recently occurred (2017). I wonder if this rule applies because bases were not loaded; but in could be interpreted to apply since runners were advancing "without liability of being put out".]

My questions:
1) Irrespective of the "pass"... did Hall and Radcliff run the bases and both cross home plate? I assume they eventually did do this.
2) What was the ruling on the field? Did they simply miss Radcliff passing Hall?
3) When "exactly" did Serratos touch home plate relative to the Radcliff pass of Hall?
4) Did they interpret Rule 5 Section 8 (above) that the game was over when Radcliff touched 1st? ...they declared the game over when Serratos crossed home and Radcliff touched 1st.
5) Does Rule 5 Section 8 (above) even apply to the situation? The bases were not loaded.

IMO... that 2nd rule does not apply (or Rule 8/Section 5 supersedes). The final score should be 9-8 (assuming Serratos crossed home before Radcliff passed Hall).

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BA18.pdf

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The scoring runner touched home plate as Radcliffe was rounding first. So whatever rule affected or didn’t affect the 2 other runners touching and passing each other didn’t matter.

 

[RoosterJacket]

I'm not an expert... but I am curious about these things. Trying to sort out the rule AND exactly what happened on Saturday. I still have questions (see end of this post)... and I do wish Ga Tech would do a better job of publishing an explanation. I'm certain the umpires explained it... right or wrong. It would be nice to get the explanation from the horse's mouth.

This was the situtation:
2 out - this matters
Runner on 1B (Hall) and 2B (Serratos) - this matters because it raises the question of whether Serratos crossed the plate before Radcliff "passed" the preceding runner (Hall).

Rule 8 (below) applies to Radcliff's "passing" of Hall. With 2 outs and a HR and the "pass"... Radcliff would be out (3rd out) and Hall would not have scored since he clearly did not cross home BEFORE the 3rd out. IF there had been less than 2 outs, Hall's run would have counted...assuming he continued to run bases and cross home plate (I think?)

These appear to be the relevant rules to this play:
Rule 8 / SECTION 5
A runner is out when:
m. The individual passes an unobstructed preceding runner before such runner is out. The ball is live; Note With fewer than two outs, if a batter, while running the bases after a home run outside the playing field, passes a preceding runner, the batter is out; but all preceding runners score. With two outs, only those preceding runners score who have touched the plate before the batter is declared out. This is a time play, not an appeal play

Rule 5 / SECTION 8
d. If the score is tied at the end of nine innings, play shall be continued until one team has scored more runs than the other in an equal number of innings, except that if the last team at bat scores the winning run before the third player is out in any inning after the ninth, the game shall terminate and be a regulation game. Note: When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half-inning of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home plate and the batter-runner has touched first base. An exception will be made if fans rush onto the field and physically prevent the runner from touching home plate or the batter-runner from touching first base. In such cases, the umpires shall award the runner the necessary bases with n appeal allowed
[Based on my research, this is the rule "change/add" that recently occurred (2017). I wonder if this rule applies because bases were not loaded; but in could be interpreted to apply since runners were advancing "without liability of being put out".]

My questions:
1) Irrespective of the "pass"... did Hall and Radcliff run the bases and both cross home plate? I assume they eventually did do this.
2) What was the ruling on the field? Did they simply miss Radcliff passing Hall? Good question; good qe
3) When "exactly" did Serratos touch home plate relative to the Radcliff pass of Hall?
4) Did they interpret Rule 5 Section 8 (above) that the game was over when Radcliff touched 1st? ...they declared the game over when Serratos crossed home and Radcliff touched 1st.
5) Does Rule 5 Section 8 (above) even apply to the situation? The bases were not loaded.

IMO... that 2nd rule does not apply (or Rule 8/Section 5 supersedes). The final score should be 9-8 (assuming Serratos crossed home before Radcliff passed Hall).

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BA18.pdf

Here is what I saw or think:
1) Irrespective of the "pass"... did Hall and Radcliff run the bases and both cross home plate? I assume they eventually did do this. Yes, they both did eventually cross homeplate per video
2) What was the ruling on the field? Did they simply miss Radcliff passing Hall? I am guessing HR maybe? That one ump was standing right there, so he saw Hall hugging Radcliff..not sure
3) When "exactly" did Serratos touch home plate relative to the Radcliff pass of Hall? Per the video from twitter, it does appear Serratos touched home plate just after Radcliff rounded 1B.
4) Did they interpret Rule 5 Section 8 (above) that the game was over when Radcliff touched 1st? ...they declared the game over when Serratos crossed home and Radcliff touched 1st. This is the most likely case and also why there has been no change of the score anywhere that I can find.
5) Does Rule 5 Section 8 (above) even apply to the situation? The bases were not loaded. I would think that this would not apply, but this whole thing has been confusing to me anyways...

Comparing the 2 videos (one from ACC Network (ESPN) and the other from Twitter that was from right beside the dugout), Hall did touch 2B and then likely turned around and came running to Baron just before he got to 2B. They made contact and Baron told him to keep running. Baron does "pass" Hall around 2B. Both of them ran out the HR and touched homeplate in correct order though...if that mattered at that point. The umps had already left the field basically and were not watching to ensure Baron touched homeplate.