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AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
@Techster I was responding, in part, to your claim "one of the better all around games a CPJ QB has played." You did not say, for a RS soph or against a certain D.

You also gave there the stats you repeated. I was giving other stats.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
our OL was performing at such a bad level that it wasn't mainly Vad that caused CPJ to go away from certain plays, but the OL dictated it as well. CPJ has flat out said it in multiple interviews.
Link please. I don't doubt you, I just don't remember them. I can't remember CPJ throwing any player, or unit for that matter, under the bus. All I remember him saying is we need to get better as coaches and players.

You also have to consider how the play of the qb affects the play of the OL. It's not a one way street as you suggest. A qb that cannot make reads, that has zero pocket awareness, that locks onto primary receivers, that is indecisive in the running game, that tries to out-athlete the defense on busted plays instead of taking what is there..... IS EXTREMELY HARD TO BLOCK FOR.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
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3,667
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Anyhow, the point of my point (ahem) is that people like to use Vad as a scapegoat, but our offensive troubles were deeper than a QB not "fully buying into the offense" as so many people like to throw out there. Afterall, it was Vad's arm that was a big reason we were able to get up 20 points on ...
I say Vad didn't fully engage the offense based on his own comments. I truly believe that mindset had a direct correlation to his effectiveness running the base offense. I also believe Vad played 100% when the lights came on. He's a competitor, mad competitors want, no, need to win. I believe Vad did everything within his power to win every game he played.

That being said, by not fully buying into and trusting the offensive scheme, per his own words, his development and progression was stilted. It's like trying to teach somebody who has a mental block; until that block is removed, a full understanding will never be attained, and the result will reflect that.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
I say Vad didn't fully engage the offense based on his own comments. I truly believe that mindset had a direct correlation to his effectiveness running the base offense. I also believe Vad played 100% when the lights came on. He's a competitor, mad competitors want, no, need to win. I believe Vad did everything within his power to win every game he played.

That being said, by not fully buying into and trusting the offensive scheme, per his own words, his development and progression was stilted. It's like trying to teach somebody who has a mental block; until that block is removed, a full understanding will never be attained, and the result will reflect that.
I remember a play in the 4th quarter when still had the lead but we desperately needed to kill clock, Vad scrambling toward the sideline had two choices: 1) take the running lane in front of him for 6 or 7 yards making the next play much, much more manageable, or 2) heaving a prayer into double coverage. Guess which option he chose and guess the outcome....

One or two first downs on that drive probably win us the game.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,686
@Techster I was responding, in part, to your claim "one of the better all around games a CPJ QB has played." You did not say, for a RS soph or against a certain D.

You also gave there the stats you repeated. I was giving other stats.

I was making a statement off one game...and somehow you made it about a season/career? You can't just throw stats out there without qualifying it...that defeats the purpose. Analysis is needed otherwise I could just toss stats from the crappy teams we've played to prove a point. Just another example of how people can manipulate stats to say what they want if analysis isn't done.

And was his game against Duke in 2013 not "one of the better all around games a CPJ QB has played"? What part of that statement is inaccurate? How many of us would take the production he had against Duke (the Coastal Champion) every game next year...where the QB accounts for 5 TDs and our offense goes over 400+ yards and scores 38 points?

*Raises Hand*
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
I say Vad didn't fully engage the offense based on his own comments. I truly believe that mindset had a direct correlation to his effectiveness running the base offense. I also believe Vad played 100% when the lights came on. He's a competitor, mad competitors want, no, need to win. I believe Vad did everything within his power to win every game he played.

That being said, by not fully buying into and trusting the offensive scheme, per his own words, his development and progression was stilted. It's like trying to teach somebody who has a mental block; until that block is removed, a full understanding will never be attained, and the result will reflect that.

Agree. I think Vad made a mistake by not buying in and fully engrossing himself into the system. I have no proof or evidence to prove this but I do believe if CPJ saw Vad smoothly running the base he would have expanded the offense more, just my beliefs. He would have been a Heisman like candidate this year if his head was in it. That being said I'm not blaming Vad for I believe both parties could and should have worked together better for the program.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,686
Link please. I don't doubt you, I just don't remember them. I can't remember CPJ throwing any player, or unit for that matter, under the bus. All I remember him saying is we need to get better as coaches and players.

You also have to consider how the play of the qb affects the play of the OL. It's not a one way street as you suggest. A qb that cannot make reads, that has zero pocket awareness, that locks onto primary receivers, that is indecisive in the running game, that tries to out-athlete the defense on busted plays instead of taking what is there..... IS EXTREMELY HARD TO BLOCK FOR.

You have Google. Use it.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
I was making a statement off one game...and somehow you made it about a season/career? You can't just throw stats out there without qualifying it...that defeats the purpose. Analysis is needed otherwise I could just toss stats from the crappy teams we've played to prove a point. Just another example of how people can manipulate stats to say what they want if analysis isn't done.

And was his game against Duke in 2013 not "one of the better all around games a CPJ QB has played"? What part of that statement is inaccurate? How many of us would take the production he had against Duke (the Coastal Champion) every game next year...where the QB accounts for 5 TDs and our offense goes over 400+ yards and scores 38 points?

*Raises Hand*

I don't believe you're being serious. It was one of Vad's better games, but it was not one of the better games compared to TW and JN, imo. Scores and total yards are team stats. I don't see how the QB stats support your conclusion. We would have had two more passing TDs if Vad had hit open receivers.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
Tell me then do you see any flaws with CPJ and his program he's built at GT?

Since your original comment was also directed at me, I'll answer. Yes. CPJ has yet to show at GT that he can field a complete team, i.e. including defense. Our defense has been mediocre to bad every year. While I give him credit for not being satisfied with the performance of the D and taking steps to get it fixed, he has not yet delivered. Also, I'm not satisfied with recruiting, but I'm of two minds on the extent to which he or just Tech is the ultimate issue there. As far as the offense is concerned, I like what he's doing. We are out-performing our talent practically every year.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,686
Do your own homework. Otherwise I'm gonna assume you made it all up.

Oh and since you ignored my second point, I'll assume you agree with it.

No offense, but you're not a poster I care to waste time doing research for. I think I have enough credibility on this board for people to know I don't just make stuff up.

You can assume what you want...you usually do.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,686
I don't believe you're being serious. It was one of Vad's better games, but it was not one of the better games compared to TW and JN, imo. Scores and total yards are team stats. I don't see how the QB stats support your conclusion. We would have had two more passing TDs if Vad had hit open receivers.

It is your opinion. But if passing for 4 TDs, running for 1 and helping the TEAM to 38 points and WIN isn't what a QB is for, then hey, we're watching totally different sports.

Tevin could have had a TD and GT probably would have eeked out a win if he didn't underthrow Jeff Greene that resulted in an INT against MTSU in 2012, but hey, who's keeping score right? Seriously, if that's your defense (we could have had 2 more TDs!!) against the game Vad had against Duke, then you must have deeper issues with Vad.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
It is your opinion. But if passing for 4 TDs, running for 1 and helping the TEAM to 38 points and WIN isn't what a QB is for, then hey, we're watching totally different sports.

Tevin could have had a TD and GT probably would have eeked out a win if he didn't underthrow Jeff Greene that resulted in an INT against MTSU in 2012, but hey, who's keeping score right? Seriously, if that's your defense (we could have had 2 more TDs!!) against the game Vad had against Duke, then you must have deeper issues with Vad.

smh I never said that TW's game against MTSU in 2012 was one of the better performances of a CPJ GT QB.

Serious question: How old are you?
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,686
smh I never said that TW's game against MTSU in 2012 was one of the better performances of a CPJ GT QB.

Serious question: How old are you?

Who said you said that? My point is, you can't qualify Vad's game by saying "We could have had 2 more TDs"...WE WON THE GAME and Vad was a large part of why we beat Duke. That was my point and you're going off in all different tangents.

Another poster has already made my point about how silly the whole "Vad not fully buying in" and how attrocious the OL was last season...quotes from a current staff member. That was my original point until you went off into some other area...and I fell for it. I'll leave it at that...but you can continue ifyou want.
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Since your original comment was also directed at me, I'll answer. Yes. CPJ has yet to show at GT that he can field a complete team, i.e. including defense. Our defense has been mediocre to bad every year. While I give him credit for not being satisfied with the performance of the D and taking steps to get it fixed, he has not yet delivered. Also, I'm not satisfied with recruiting, but I'm of two minds on the extent to which he or just Tech is the ultimate issue there. As far as the offense is concerned, I like what he's doing. We are out-performing our talent practically every year.

I'm surprised to read this cause your post have not shown balance objectivity.
 
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