Need An Understanding On QB Play

[Heisman's Ghost]

Part of the issue for him is our route trees are horrible. You can tell he is waiting and waiting for a receiver to break open and they just aren't getting separation with any consistency. He needs to throw it away once thag internal clock goes off.

If I had that line in front of me with 300lb defensive linemen wanting to break my leg, my offense would be the old "chuck and duck" internal clock be damned.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Unless I misunderstood you seemed to present the two plays in question as evidence Collins's offense was not "plain vanilla". My point was that in fact in this offense, they are "vanilla". Standard out of the playbook. Now, if we ran the read option then reversed the pitch, it becomes something unusual. By the same token, though well executed it is a thing of beauty, the triple option is a standard play.

I will have the chocolate with whipped cream if you don't mind. The vanilla reminds me of Pepper's "Pure Vanilla Wishbone".

 

[Skeptic]

I will have the chocolate with whipped cream if you don't mind. The vanilla reminds me of Pepper's "Pure Vanilla Wishbone".

Why in the world did he ever leave UCLA?

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Why in the world did he ever leave UCLA?

I get why he left Kansas...to get away from Dan Devine for starters but UCLA he was getting more talent than he ever did at Tech and he did not have to play UGA, Auburn, Tennessee, Notre Dame and South Carolina all the time. I can't imagine what he was thinking other than the challenge of it and boy howdy, it was a challenge. On the other hand, he never got a running back as good as Eddie Lee Ivery or a tackle as good as Kent Hill or a wide receiver like Drew Hill but overall the talent at UCLA was far superior to what he was able to get at Tech. He probably wonders what he was thinking too.

 

[4shotB]

. On the other hand, he never got a running back as good as Eddie Lee Ivery or a tackle as good as Kent Hill or a wide receiver like Drew Hill but overall the talent at UCLA was far superior to what he was able to get at Tech. He probably wonders what he was thinking too.

Very few people do. Pepper's top guys (the proverbial 1 through 8's) were the best of any GT coach in the last 50 years imo. Coach Ross had the best 1-35 or whatever but nobody has had the very top tier guys like CPR.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Very few people do. Pepper's top guys (the proverbial 1 through 8's) were the best of any GT coach in the last 50 years imo. Coach Ross had the best 1-35 or whatever but nobody has had the very top tier guys like CPR.

Agree to disagree. The results certainly do not bear that out. Both Ross and O'Leary had far better players IMHO. Pepper did not have a quarterback and could not get defensive linemen. He had his moments though, for sure, and he did beat UGA in Athens in about as wet conditions as I have ever experienced as a fan in 1974.

 

[CuseJacket]

Somewhat relevant to longer developing plays

 

[Coloradojacket]

Agree to disagree. The results certainly do not bear that out. Both Ross and O'Leary had far better players IMHO. Pepper did not have a quarterback and could not get defensive linemen. He had his moments though, for sure, and he did beat UGA in Athens in about as wet conditions as I have ever experienced as a fan in 1974.

Going to have to disagree here. Kelley was a solid Qb. Eddie Lee David Sims Drew Hill Lucius etc. Pepper had some top players. We just had a lit of hard schedules.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Going to have to disagree here. Kelley was a solid Qb. Eddie Lee David Sims Drew Hill Lucius etc. Pepper had some top players. We just had a lit of hard schedules.

True he did have a hard schedule. I will have to check but one year, as conversations simmered about Tech possibly rejoining the SEC, Tech had a schedule that included Alabama, Florida, Auburn, UGA, and Tennessee. Mike Kelley's problem was being a pro style quarterback behind a smallish and less than acceptable offensive line. Pepper's problems were pretty much the same as every Tech coach since including the current one: not enough linemen on either side of the ball but especially defense. IIWII

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

What I've seen is our opponents pulling everyone in tight and challenging the lanes on those short throws. They are betting their DL forces a quick throw which pretty much precludes the down the field stuff.

If I were a defensive coordinator playing Tech I would do exactly that and challenge Sims and the receivers to beat my guys deep. Bet you can't do it. Do that against say Kenny Pickett and he would have a field day even though HIS offensive line is nothing to write home about either.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

True he did have a hard schedule. I will have to check but one year, as conversations simmered about Tech possibly rejoining the SEC, Tech had a schedule that included Alabama, Florida, Auburn, UGA, and Tennessee. Mike Kelley's problem was being a pro style quarterback behind a smallish and less than acceptable offensive line. Pepper's problems were pretty much the same as every Tech coach since including the current one: not enough linemen on either side of the ball but especially defense. IIWII

Upon further review in Pepper's last year 1979 the Jackets played three top 20 teams in Alabama, Notre Dame, and Auburn. Alabama and Notre Dame were ranked number 2 and number 5 respectively. Naturally, we lost all three of those games as well as two of Florida, UGA, and Tennessee who were unranked but still pretty tough. We managed to tie Florida on the way to a 4-6-1 record.

 

[TheJuiceIsLoose]

Somewhat relevant to longer developing plays

Not bad for a T-Fr with a chaotic off-season due to the Pandemic and then having to play behind a weak OLine, with no help from the TE Position

But none of that means anything, the OC needs to call magical plays and the Coaches need to provide magical coaching during the week that will make the OLine play like future NFL Guys on Saturdays (this sarcasm is directed at the "blame the Coaching & QB crowd")

 

[GoldZ]

Agree to disagree. The results certainly do not bear that out. Both Ross and O'Leary had far better players IMHO. Pepper did not have a quarterback and could not get defensive linemen. He had his moments though, for sure, and he did beat UGA in Athens in about as wet conditions as I have ever experienced as a fan in 1974.

Mike Kelley was a more than serviceable QB.

 

[kalld12]

Not bad for a T-Fr with a chaotic off-season due to the Pandemic and then having to play behind a weak OLine, with no help from the TE Position

But none of that means anything, the OC needs to call magical plays and the Coaches need to provide magical coaching during the week that will make the OLine play like future NFL Guys on Saturdays (this sarcasm is directed at the "blame the Coaching & QB crowd")

same could have been said for JG last year, but we all know the Oline is actually better this year

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Mike Kelley was a more than serviceable QB.

His offensive line was not "serviceable" and his receivers were mediocre at best. I don't think he was all that good but we can agree to disagree He did his best for the Jackets and that is all a fan can ask. God knows he took his share of shots from defensive linemen and linebackers pouring through that line.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

His offensive line was not "serviceable" and his receivers were mediocre at best. I don't think he was all that good but we can agree to disagree He did his best for the Jackets and that is all a fan can ask. God knows he took his share of shots from defensive linemen and linebackers pouring through that line.

Upon further review. Mike was a rare four year starter it would seem from 1978 thru 1981. Hard times for the Jackets. The cumulative record was 13-31-2. Mike had his moments though. A huge upset of number 2 Alabama in 1981 was inexplicably followed by 10 straight losses. In 1980, they tied undefeated and number 1 Notre Dame. (Seems like Wisenhunt was the quarterback that game though) His completion percentage hovered around 50% all four years but in 1978 and 1979 he threw for 1,479 and 2,051 yards respectively. Seems he was drafted by someone in the NFL, maybe? As I recall through the mists of time, he had a very good arm and was accurate but had a pretty bad TD to interception ratio. All four years he had more interceptions than touchdowns but I am sure a lack of protection and just trying to do too much for bad teams had something to do with that. Fans now think they have problems? It could be a whole lot worse.

 

[Skeptic]

same could have been said for JG last year, but we all know the Oline is actually better this year

Now see, there you go. Never say that "we all know" or that "everybody knows" or similar some such because right away I say, well, I don't.

 

[Skeptic]

I get why he left Kansas...to get away from Dan Devine for starters but UCLA he was getting more talent than he ever did at Tech and he did not have to play UGA, Auburn, Tennessee, Notre Dame and South Carolina all the time. I can't imagine what he was thinking other than the challenge of it and boy howdy, it was a challenge. On the other hand, he never got a running back as good as Eddie Lee Ivery or a tackle as good as Kent Hill or a wide receiver like Drew Hill but overall the talent at UCLA was far superior to what he was able to get at Tech. He probably wonders what he was thinking too.

Never met the guy but a close friend lived in the same condo complex in Washington while Pepper held one of several positions with the Redskins, and played poker with him once a week. Confidence did not seem a problem, apparently, and in fact, "He is an arrogant SOB." If so it explains a lot.

 

[SoMsJacket]

Going to have to disagree here. Kelley was a solid Qb. Eddie Lee David Sims Drew Hill Lucius etc. Pepper had some top players. We just had a lit of hard schedules.

I was there during the Pepper era. Pepper's problem was that for all the David Sims, Eddie Lees, Drew Hill, Kent Hill, etc., the player next to him was not D1 caliber.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Never met the guy but a close friend lived in the same condo complex in Washington while Pepper held one of several positions with the Redskins, and played poker with him once a week. Confidence did not seem a problem, apparently, and in fact, "He is an arrogant SOB." If so it explains a lot.

That is one way of putting it. A friend of mine's father played on that 1952 national championship team with Pepper who was not the quarterback. Anyway, this man married a girl he met at Tech and it turned out was from Brown High School where Pepper was the quarterback. He was constantly after her for dates and was not happy when she spurned him and married my friend's father. The reason for her doing so was because Pepper just had a, shall we say, inflated opinion of himself which she did not share.

But let's be charitable. Pepper took on the challenge of revitalizing a down in the dumps program in the mid 1970s and through an engaging personality, love for Georgia Tech, and a vision of what Tech football could be, he did about as well as could be expected. Even Bobby Dodd said as much. Incidentally, on that 1952 national championship team that was loaded with talent as witnessed by no fewer than 6 All Americans of one kind or another, according to my friend's father the undisputed toughest guy on the team was an unheralded center and linebacker named Lum Snyder. I hope I got that name right. When Tech played a number 6 ranked Duke in Durham later in the season (yep, Duke used to be very good in football) he was said to have started a fight with a Duke lineman that escalated into an all out brawl after Tech had pretty much blown the Devils out.