ND 61 GT 5; Cry Me A River

[GTNavyNuke]

Over the last 4 years , ND has had 61 elite players commit and we have had 5. That's where elite players are 4 and 5 star rated according to Scout (http://www.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=9&c=14&yr=2015).

So now they have lost 5 players and are down to 56 elite or so to our 5 or less. Cry me an f'ing river about their loss of talent for this game. Their talent did get them to 8-5 last year.

Why are we are even in the discussion to win this game?

 

[DC Bee]

Lest people forget that football is the ultimate team sport. Which is better to have, a bunch of elite players playing football or a bunch of 2 & 3 stars playing football together as a team? I think the latter is easier said than done.

 

[GTJackets]

They can say what they want to about ND being short handed (and they will if we win), but ND used all of these backups to come from behind to beat UVA. And most (if not all) polls decided that they deserved to be ranked higher even without those injured starters.

But you won't hear about that if we beat them in their house Saturday. It will all be about poor short-handed ND.

 

[gtrower]

Football is not the ultimate team sport. Fun fact: it's actually detrimental to a boat if one person is pulling harder than the rest.

 

[JacketintheBend]

Over the last 4 years , ND has had 61 elite players commit and we have had 5. That's where elite players are 4 and 5 star rated according to Scout (http://www.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=9&c=14&yr=2015).

So now they have lost 5 players and are down to 56 elite or so to our 5 or less. Cry me an f'ing river about their loss of talent for this game. Their talent did get them to 8-5 last year.

Why are we are even in the discussion to win this game?

Brian VanGorder is one primary reason; Justin Thomas is the other.

 

[UgaBlows]

ND commits get stars added, GT commits have them taken away. AJ Gray would've been 4-5 star if he'd gone to ND

 

[GTNavyNuke]

ND commits get stars added, GT commits have them taken away. AJ Gray would've been 4-5 star if he'd gone to ND

While I agree with you to some extent, I don't know how to prove that assertion. Maybe by the number of 3 stars we put in the NFL? I would think if we start winning regularly (top 20 for several years), then more CPJ offers will get an upgrade.

The reason I made this a separate post is to emphasize the massive talent difference in player's talent coming out of HS. But as CPJ has said, you never know how players are going to develop and work to get better. Some never get much better from HS and others make massive strides. So to be in the discussion is a real testament to how hard our players work and the coaching staff. In the choices, I only put the negative to that view. Each one has a positive counterpart for GT.

 

[Legal Jacket]

I don't think they've had that bad of a run. Too lazy to look it up, but unless they have a terrible coach they win 8-10 games every year. They played in the national championship what, three years ago? By and large I think their main problem has been coaching, but they've had pretty good results - especially recently.

 

[Minawreck]

Notre Dame also plays a pretty tough schedule year-in and year-out. They don't play FCS programs, and they're constantly traveling across the country. They choose this existence, so I don't feel sorry for them, but it's tough to keep stringing 10-win seasons together without the FCS patsies and going Coast-to-Coast week-to-week.

 

[cmathis]

ND commits get stars added, GT commits have them taken away. AJ Gray would've been 4-5 star if he'd gone to ND

Is this for real? I've heard this a lot, "<X> commits get stars added, GT commits have them taken away." I'm just not real sure I believe it. I think it's more that CPJ and crew are just excellent judges of talent for the system we run. I'd take a bunch of 2-3* players that work together as a team in this system, vs a bunch of 4-5* players that are more about individual highlights.

 

[GTRX7]

Is this for real? I've heard this a lot, "<X> commits get stars added, GT commits have them taken away." I'm just not real sure I believe it. I think it's more that CPJ and crew are just excellent judges of talent for the system we run. I'd take a bunch of 2-3* players that work together as a team in this system, vs a bunch of 4-5* players that are more about individual highlights.

I think there is some truth to it, but maybe not quite as much as some make out. I mean, Calvin committed to Tech pretty early and remained only a 4* in two of the three major services I believe. To this date, I think he may still be the only 5* recruit we have ever gotten in the other service. Think Calvin would have remained a 4* had he gone to ND or UGA? I don't.

 

[GTJake]

There is a whole lot more to playing football than some recruiting service giving you a 5* rating.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Is this for real? I've heard this a lot, "<X> commits get stars added, GT commits have them taken away." I'm just not real sure I believe it. I think it's more that CPJ and crew are just excellent judges of talent for the system we run. I'd take a bunch of 2-3* players that work together as a team in this system, vs a bunch of 4-5* players that are more about individual highlights.

It is partly hyperbole for sure.
But there is also a real phenomenon which is that recruiting services always tend to doubt that Tech's coaching staff might be better at evaluating talent than they are. Some recruiting services will never upgrade their initial impression of a Tech recruit because "they didn't see them first." One recruiting service (sorry, I do not remember which) has a tendency to upgrade Tech's recruiting classes in hindsight. Not many years ago Tech had a class that was rated something like 76th in the nation. A few years later that same recruiting site went back and changed that class rating to something like 43rd in the nation. It may sound paranoid but I am not making this up. The jump in recruiting status that comes a few years after the fact seems to happen after bowl wins.

 

[reubenjet]

There is a whole lot more to playing football than some recruiting service giving you a 5* rating.

Amen! Who cares about ratings? These guys hung up on player ratings are the same ones losing sleep over pre-season polls! None of this matters at the end of the day people! Play the game and may the best TEAM win!

 

[18in32]

Football is not the ultimate team sport. Fun fact: it's actually detrimental to a boat if one person is pulling harder than the rest.

Good point. And what about synchronized swimming? Isn't that the ultimate team sport?

 

[cmathis]

It is partly hyperbole for sure.
But there is also a real phenomenon which is that recruiting services always tend to doubt that Tech's coaching staff might be better at evaluating talent than they are. Some recruiting services will never upgrade their initial impression of a Tech recruit because "they didn't see them first." One recruiting service (sorry, I do not remember which) has a tendency to upgrade Tech's recruiting classes in hindsight. Not many years ago Tech had a class that was rated something like 76th in the nation. A few years later that same recruiting site went back and changed that class rating to something like 43rd in the nation. It may sound paranoid but I am not making this up. The jump in recruiting status that comes a few years after the fact seems to happen after bowl wins.

That's just so dumb. That's proof right there that what CPJ says about the star ranking being pointless (which it obviously is) is true.

 

[JacketintheBend]

Over the last 4 years , ND has had 61 elite players commit and we have had 5. That's where elite players are 4 and 5 star rated according to Scout (http://www.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=9&c=14&yr=2015).

So now they have lost 5 players and are down to 56 elite or so to our 5 or less. Cry me an f'ing river about their loss of talent for this game. Their talent did get them to 8-5 last year.

Why are we are even in the discussion to win this game?

ND has an untested offense, and more question marks than answers on D so far.

Serious losses@ND really are QB & TB where they are starting this Spring's 3d string guys.

Regarding ND 5 stars :
DE Williams - gone due to academics
RB Bryant - gone due to academics
LB Jaylon Smith - All-Everything, best player
OL, TE Nelson & Jones - RS & True Freshmen still developing

Team MVP/Captain/MLB - no star walk-on Joe Schmidt
Best WR/Offensive Player - 2/3 star Will Fuller

Recruiting stars measure 16 & 17 year olds not 19 to 22 year olds.
Though often a good measure for raw ability, alot can and does change w maturity.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

That's just so dumb. That's proof right there that what CPJ says about the star ranking being pointless (which it obviously is) is true.

Well, since I have had this argument many times on several sites let me hasten to say that I do not think star ratings are completely pointless. There is pretty solid statistical evidence that supports a star rating being a good indicator of future performance. Those who argue this point can show the research and the data to prove it.

My counter argument is simply this. Let's say recruiting services get it right 80% of the time. That is a pretty good prediction rate when it comes to how actual human beings are going to perform. But then that means they get it wrong 20% of the time. I contend that CPJ makes his living in that 20% blind spot the recruiting services have.

So recruiting services get it right most of the time when looking at over 5000 college recruits. But when it comes to the 20-30 that Tech recruits in a given year, their success rate plummets dramatically.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

NM

 

[GTNavyNuke]

....... There is pretty solid statistical evidence that supports a star rating being a good indicator of future performance. Those who argue this point can show the research and the data to prove it........

We agree. There is solid statistical evidence to show that 4 and 5 star players are more likely, on a per capita basis, to go to the NFL. But as @JacketintheBend says, you just never know for the vast majority of the players how they will mature. We have a program and work ethic now that has us developing football players who look like NFL players. Much better than it used to be.

I'm glad to hear that ND's best players are 3* / walk ons (other than Jaylon Smith). I respect players who develop more than those who coast on their talents.