NCAA v. Alston in the Supreme Court

[MWBATL]

May You Live in Interesting Times....
(old Chinese curse)

 

[MtnWasp]

Hmmm, I don't see this as necessarily favoring the factory programs. The factory schools have large operating budgets under the current system. But if the new rules favor a free market approach, then this opens college sports to alternative sources of capital. The schools don't have to pay players out of their operating budgets but can be creative conduits/intermediaries to other sources of capital.

For instance, most factory schools are rural institutions. But a program like GT is within an urban setting where there is a concentration of capital. Would an Atlanta company benefit more from representation of a local sports star rather than one from out of town? In such a market, it will not be about the schools but about the individual players and individual stars will want to be brought home to where the capital lives.

We see this is pro sports all the time, where the big stars gravitate to the "Big Market" cities.

In other words, the market will be WIDE OPEN and the advantage goes to those who are first to creatively exploit the angles. Those who are currently at the top of the food chain are the parties most at risk to lose. The factory schools depend on booster dollars, school brand identity and fan-bases to assert their dominance. But if the market opens, the capital from the old sources may be entirely supplanted by new avenues to larger capital streams.

Gt may have been at a disadvantage in the present system, but if the old system goes down, those disadvantages might disappear.

 

[boger2337]

Just pay the kids 15 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Don't allow them to earn money other than what the NCAA had a deal with.

The idea to make money via NIL is wrong. They should just be paid via the NCAA not even the school. 600 a week for a college student who already has everything paid for is great money. I made less than that on scholarship and felt rich lol.

 

[JacketRacket]

I agree with you 100% when we talk about "the whole idea of collegiate sports."

The rub comes when you look at all that money being made by the coaches and universities while the players are getting none of it. The system doesn't pass a simple smell test. All the while, players have, until recently, been restricted as to where they can choose to play because it might be unfair to the universities or make it hard for a coach to assemble a roster.

Letting the kids have free run at the candy counter at a gas station is OK, but the school cannot give each player $20 to get whatever they want.

Earnest question: What if coaches' salaries were more on the level of other faculty employees (like professors), and the money made by the NCAA was funneled back to schools specifically earmarked for both scholarships (which most NCAA money that goes back to the schools is) and a general fund for teams lodging and travel to NCAA events?

Is the issue that the students' aren't getting paid or moreso that they aren't getting paid while other people are making bank off their sweat and blood (meanwhile pushing them to do what's in their best interest rather than the students)?

 

[forensicbuzz]

Earnest question: What if coaches' salaries were more on the level of other faculty employees (like professors), and the money made by the NCAA was funneled back to schools specifically earmarked for both scholarships (which most NCAA money that goes back to the schools is) and a general fund for teams lodging and travel to NCAA events?

Is the issue that the students' aren't getting paid or moreso that they aren't getting paid while other people are making bank off their sweat and blood (meanwhile pushing them to do what's in their best interest rather than the students)?

Okay, that takes care of the NCAA money. Now, what about the money coming in from the fans and alumni? You'd just moving us back into the 60's and 70's and 80's.

 

[JacketRacket]

Okay, that takes care of the NCAA money. Now, what about the money coming in from the fans and alumni? You'd just moving us back into the 60's and 70's and 80's.

That'd go to facilities, scholarships and the stadium still. Pretty much everything on AI2020 would be allowed for instance.

 

[crut]

Earnest question: What if coaches' salaries were more on the level of other faculty employees (like professors), and the money made by the NCAA was funneled back to schools specifically earmarked for both scholarships (which most NCAA money that goes back to the schools is) and a general fund for teams lodging and travel to NCAA events?

Is the issue that the students' aren't getting paid or moreso that they aren't getting paid while other people are making bank off their sweat and blood (meanwhile pushing them to do what's in their best interest rather than the students)?

Money made by the NCAA already does get funneled back to schools specifically earmarked for scholarships and other athlete related things.

The NCAA is a non-profit. Sure, I'm sure their execs make a lot of money but they aren't running profits and rolling in the dough like Jeff Bezos or something. That's a false narrative that came to be out of thin air because of the NCAA's bad reputation.

Here is how their revenues are allocated. It looks like ~$45 million of their roughly $1 billion in revenues (4.5%) go toward the NCAA's staff:

Where Does the Money Go?

Where Does the Money Go?

www.ncaa.org

 

[crut]

The main thing that is "unfair" is that money generated by football (~$178 million/year) and men's basketball (~$867 million/year) gets re-allocated to support all other sports. All other sports, including the women's basketball tournament, either operate in the negative annually for the NCAA or are roughly net-zero which is how the NCAA ends up as a non-profit.

 

[Aanderson1839]

Do you pay ALL athletes money? Do you pay them all the same amount of money? If you pay them, do you still grant scholarships? Keep in mind the cost of a college education today. An out of state scholarship at GT is worth $50K a year. That is a LOT of money. A Vanderbilt student is getting closer to $75K a year. So they are already getting compensated very well. They also get additional benefits of tutoring and

The average income for Americans in 2019 was around 31K and the average salary was around 68K. So to say players don't get compensated is just not accurate. They are actually compensated well. If they take advantage of getting a free degree they are in a great position to get a job and have zero student debt, even if it takes them 5 years to get it.

If you start paying players how are Athletic associations supposed to cover the costs? How many AA in the country are able to break even now they have to add X cost per year to every scholarship athlete?

If you allow players to start making money off of their fame then it will only be the top few players on baketball, football, and a few baseball players maybe that are able to do that. And then the bigger fan bases have a huge advantage. How many uga fans would give money to QB1 on a twitch stream compared to Wake Forest's QB1?

Its Pandora's box and unnecessary.

 

[g0lftime]

This will likely cause schools to reduce their nonrevenue sports. Covid already hit some budgets to cause reductions in things like tennis swimming etc. The question is how much are donor's willing to increase their giving to pay some 19 year old that is already getting a free ride. Do you pay a senior more than a freshman due to experience. Do you pay a starter more than a bench player? This is going to open up a can of worms and no one knows the unexpected consequences? I can envision the P5 schools forming a "New NCAA" and the other conferences staying with the old model or even Ivy League model.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

Do you pay ALL athletes money? Do you pay them all the same amount of money? If you pay them, do you still grant scholarships? Keep in mind the cost of a college education today. An out of state scholarship at GT is worth $50K a year. That is a LOT of money. A Vanderbilt student is getting closer to $75K a year. So they are already getting compensated very well. They also get additional benefits of tutoring and

The average income for Americans in 2019 was around 31K and the average salary was around 68K. So to say players don't get compensated is just not accurate. They are actually compensated well. If they take advantage of getting a free degree they are in a great position to get a job and have zero student debt, even if it takes them 5 years to get it.

If you start paying players how are Athletic associations supposed to cover the costs? How many AA in the country are able to break even now they have to add X cost per year to every scholarship athlete?

If you allow players to start making money off of their fame then it will only be the top few players on baketball, football, and a few baseball players maybe that are able to do that. And then the bigger fan bases have a huge advantage. How many uga fans would give money to QB1 on a twitch stream compared to Wake Forest's QB1?

Its Pandora's box and unnecessary.

Valid points especially Uga v wake forest analogy but I am sure the free market will figure it out like it does in every other industry. This isn’t the end of college sports especially in view of the billion dollar contracts. Allowing compensation without penalty will largely lead to the same results that we already see in college football

 

[JacketRacket]

Do you pay ALL athletes money? Do you pay them all the same amount of money? If you pay them, do you still grant scholarships? Keep in mind the cost of a college education today. An out of state scholarship at GT is worth $50K a year. That is a LOT of money. A Vanderbilt student is getting closer to $75K a year. So they are already getting compensated very well. They also get additional benefits of tutoring and

The average income for Americans in 2019 was around 31K and the average salary was around 68K. So to say players don't get compensated is just not accurate. They are actually compensated well. If they take advantage of getting a free degree they are in a great position to get a job and have zero student debt, even if it takes them 5 years to get it.

If you start paying players how are Athletic associations supposed to cover the costs? How many AA in the country are able to break even now they have to add X cost per year to every scholarship athlete?

If you allow players to start making money off of their fame then it will only be the top few players on baketball, football, and a few baseball players maybe that are able to do that. And then the bigger fan bases have a huge advantage. How many uga fans would give money to QB1 on a twitch stream compared to Wake Forest's QB1?

Its Pandora's box and unnecessary.

It's naive to think that the top few players on basketball, football aren't already paying some of their players, but I digress.

The education is the value argument doesn't hold with how the NCAA has been enforcing it. Especially when you consider that all degrees aren't created equal (e.g. a GT degree is worth more than a uGA degree).

Coaches salaries are defined by the free market where schools compete against eachother to determine that value.

A student athlete doesn't get that same benefit. Even if you tie the value directly to the education, student athletes don't get to use the free market to its full extent to maximize even that.

They can't transfer to a better school without having to go to the transfer portal and having coaches approve transfers. They can't even have a school reach out to them directly to pitch why their education value is a better fit for them cause of the restrictions the NCAA places. Coaches don't have the same restrictions.

So, if the value of a player is 4 years of education, why limit the students from maximizing that wherever they choose.

 

[forensicbuzz]

That'd go to facilities, scholarships and the stadium still. Pretty much everything on AI2020 would be allowed for instance.

Just like they did in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Facilities like Herschel Walker's camero?

 

[JacketRacket]

Just like they did in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Facilities like Herschel Walker's camero?

Just get on with it. What's your point?

 

[forensicbuzz]

Just get on with it. What's your point?

My point is cheaters are going to cheat. Don't be so naive.

 

[JacketRacket]

My point is cheaters are going to cheat. Don't be so naive.

LOL. Quoting my earlier post...

It's naive to think that the top few players on basketball, football aren't already paying some of their players, but I digress.

You're right that cheaters are going to cheat. Paying players under the table is still going to happen as it is today and will still be banned/illegal (depending on context) then as it is now.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Fortunately this shouldn't affect college baseball much. Not a lot of money in college baseball and really good players go to MLB and bypass college. (Parada is an exception we got lucky on.)

Football will be affected the most and the men's basketball. As @MWBATL said, we live in interesting times. But since we have no control, I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round.

 

[RonJohn]

For instance, most factory schools are rural institutions. But a program like GT is within an urban setting where there is a concentration of capital. Would an Atlanta company benefit more from representation of a local sports star rather than one from out of town? In such a market, it will not be about the schools but about the individual players and individual stars will want to be brought home to where the capital lives.

Would companies in Atlanta benefit more from a GT player advertising for them, or one from a rural school about 60 miles away? CGC and GT athletics are trying to take control of the city of Atlanta, but it is much easier to purchase mutt merchandise in Atlanta than GT merchandise. The only place I see GT merchandise and people wearing GT gear is in Midtown. Everywhere else, and especially if you go out to the suburbs, you see a lot more people in mutt stuff and it is difficult to find GT merchandise.