NC State Postgame

Jacketman99

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Small sized 3 star receivers such as king, McCollum, Boyd, Rutherford aren’t going to be a big time threat due to small size and physical traits, those guys are smaller slot speedster types. We already have one of those type of receivers in brown. We’re lacking a big physical receiver next to AB and it really shows at times.
2 of the 4 receivers you listed are 6'3" and Rutherford hasn't even signed his letter of intent. Not sure what he has to do with the conversation. Also, what happens when Brown is injured (like now) or he leaves? You still need other slot receivers on the roster. I have also seen one or two plays were Sims missed McCollum on what would have been a td. Boyd got hurt in his first game of true playing time. Based off of what others have indicated he was probably in line for more playing time as the season progressed. The guys you listed are all true freshmen or not on campus so we have no idea what impact they are going to have in their careers.
 

4shotB

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Exactly - and as a coach and QB you have to be aware of this. You should be calling plays that allow for quick throws if that’s what you’re facing. Or be ready to tuck it and run after 2 seconds. We had multiple fumbles and near interceptions in the first 10 minutes alone.

On a positive note, I did see a quick pass as you suggest that looked suspiciously like the elusive slant pattern that was discussed here just the other day. Was it to Sanders? Anyway, it was a well designed and quick hitter like we have been asking for as opposed to a deep dropback and wait for the receivers to get open.
 

Northeast Stinger

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When we go for it on 4th down it seems like we are choosing slow developing plays that start too deep in the backfield. With a defense crowding the line and run blitzing it seems inevitable that penetration into the backfield is going to blow the play up. Anyone have any insight into this? Or am I just too fond of quick hitters in short yardage 4th down situations?
 

gt02

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Don’t understand everyone who thinks we would’ve won with Gibbs. Mason was not the reason we lost. Nor was it the refs fault.

Too many stupid penalties and red zone incompetence. The penalties are inexcusable though.

Finally, I will say, I’ve criticized #6 in the past but at least to my amateur eyes he looked to have played a decent game. Perhaps that was because the NCS QB was not really a running threat.
 

Oakland

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Don’t understand everyone who thinks we would’ve won with Gibbs.
Mason is a very good running back. Even Georgia would be thrilled to have him. However, Gibbs appears to have very good vision on the field and his speed in pads hasn't been seen at Tech, maybe ever. Based on that, I saw two running plays that I truly believe Gibbs would have scored.
 

lv20gt

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Don’t understand everyone who thinks we would’ve won with Gibbs. Mason was not the reason we lost.

Not that I'm convinced that we win with Gibbs but there are two things he gives us that Mason really doesn't.

The bigger is a receiving threat out of the backfield. He's averaging ~45 ypg receiving a game and no other back really gives us that.

The second is a home run threat. Mason is great at getting tough yards and grinding but the downside of that is what we saw yesterday. More plays means more chances to make mistakes ending drives. My opinion is that Gibbs has more of an ability to hit the homerun which would limit that type of issue. Now that argument relies on a difference in one or two plays so it could have made the difference, or it could have not happened.
 

Technut1990

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Lets try some down and distance and field position awareness in our play calling, especially in the red zone. Something is not right when the O yardage stats are so high and the scoring is so low (not the first time).

how did you do that Ballin ! You’ve got my screen name in Daniels quote
 

orientalnc

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This was the best all around game of the Collins era.

/
I am going to assume you were not being sarcastic.

The depleted defense held State to one FG in the 2nd half and we played a respectable game when we could probably have not made the trip to Raleigh at all. Having the team ready to play - and play well - was a great job of coaching. Three cheers for your willingness to point that out.
 

Technut1990

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Finally, I will say, I’ve criticized #6 in the past but at least to my amateur eyes he looked to have played a decent game. Perhaps that was because the NCS QB was not really a running threat.

agree 100%. He plays hard but some of his bad habits get hidden against pass oriented teams. When we are facing a run team or run play he gets caught up in the run blocking and piles. He absolutely got blown up on NC States 2nd TD run as an example. Not crticing the fact he got blocked saying that on run plays he looks like his a magnet and the blocker is metal. When he is playing the pass or rushing the QB he is a lot better.
 

alagold

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Couple thoughts.

1.) Kennard and Walker were all over the place.

2.) Sims’ vision when he’s scrambling is so much better than early in the season. He kept us in it in the 1st half. That part of the game has clearly slowed down for him. Needs to work on sliding though.

3.) Super happy we kept finding Adonicas. He was the best player on offense today.

4.) HORRIBLE special teams. How does a walk-on get a personal foul on a kickoff through the endzone? Then Jerry Howard on a critical punt. Speaking of punts... man I love all our players and love them getting the recognition they deserve. But the hardcore fans like us who watch every snap know what’s up when we absolutely need a great punt in a close game.
Getting 2 short FGs instead of TDs was the difference in game to me.
Of course having TWELVE penalties didn't help.
otoh--may have been the best effort of yr on DEF..
 

alagold

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Eh, this would mean more if there weren’t only 4 freshman getting meaningful playing time on offense in the conference. Sims, Gibbs, a RB from Syracuse, and a Pitt WR.

Coming into this weekend, Sims was 12th in the conference in passing yards, had the most interceptions per attempt, and was 7th in QB rushing. He may end up great, but the numbers this year haven’t been outstanding.

We will see on Sims but check out Joe Ham's stats early--uggg!
 

Technut1990

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But will the coaching improve when the talent gets better? Serious question and not trying to be flippant.

I think the learning curve on Collins is more visible with less talented players. We see it with Gibbs. his talent can overcome poor play calls or even poor decisions by other players. Collins kicks that 1st half FG if he has Butker. That’s why I keep saying the proper play call and decisions are already known in football. Collins sometimes out coaches himself. The football call on 4th down from the 13 with 10 seconds in the half and we are getting the ball coming out in the third, is to try the FG - regardless. You have to work on routine plays. In baseball you don’t play a shift with the infield because your 2nd basemen sux you play it because the batter is a dead pull hitter. Collins needs to run when it’s a running play and pass on passing plays right now. He should also kick in kicking situations. Part of development is routine, I think the coaches are mixing a personnel rebuild with a desire to win and the result is inconsistent play calling, in the moment decision making And player performance. Call basic situational calls That fit your current team, If our strength right now in this rebuild is running and we run all the way down the field is there a need to start throwing inside the 10 ? I think that’s over coaching, do what football sense and this rebuild team tells you to do, run until they stop you ! I’d say that about passing if our best play was the pass. Play to your talent. Which is more likely over time, a TD on 4th down late in the half or a FG ? Call the football play. Unless it’s a must I’d kick it every time, even with a struggling PK’er.

I don’t know if mistakes like false starts are a talent thing or not but we score from the one if we don’t have 2 in a row, a score makes the game different and the 4th quarter play calling different, was there a need to go hurry up ? Coaching inconsistency caused the false starts, unfortunately we are not yet in the mindset to change our timing on the line. Or perhaps Sims cadence turns into a different tone when he is hurrying, I don’t know. But when we changed our timing the current personnel wasn’t ready for it from a talent/mentality perspective, they will be but in a year or two but not now.

we also don’t know if Sims is picking the correct WR to throw to. He threw to a double covered guy on two long passes, one in the end zone should have been picked, the other was down the left sideline on a late possession, if that WR is double covered there was likely an open guy underneath, Sims being young wants to force the big throw, so the coaches have to take that option from him by not calling plays where WRs are streaking, late in games, I think he try’s to force it downfield because he doesn’t understand how much time he has left in the game Or the situation yet.

so yes talent can both cover up bad coaching decisions and help the coaching improve but the coaches have to rely on their basics also, either we are developing a program or we are strategizing to win one game, current talent says it can’t be both, not yet.
 

Deleted member 2897

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I think the learning curve on Collins is more visible with less talented players. We see it with Gibbs. his talent can overcome poor play calls or even poor decisions by other players. Collins kicks that 1st half FG if he has Butker. That’s why I keep saying the proper play call and decisions are already known in football. Collins sometimes out coaches himself. The football call on 4th down from the 13 with 10 seconds in the half and we are getting the ball coming out in the third, is to try the FG - regardless. You have to work on routine plays. In baseball you don’t play a shift with the infield because your 2nd basemen sux you play it because the batter is a dead pull hitter. Collins needs to run when it’s a running play and pass on passing plays right now. He should also kick in kicking situations. Part of development is routine, I think the coaches are mixing a personnel rebuild with a desire to win and the result is inconsistent play calling, in the moment decision making And player performance. Call basic situational calls That fit your current team, If our strength right now in this rebuild is running and we run all the way down the field is there a need to start throwing inside the 10 ? I think that’s over coaching, do what football sense and this rebuild team tells you to do, run until they stop you ! I’d say that about passing if our best play was the pass. Play to your talent. Which is more likely over time, a TD on 4th down late in the half or a FG ? Call the football play. Unless it’s a must I’d kick it every time, even with a struggling PK’er.

I don’t know if mistakes like false starts are a talent thing or not but we score from the one if we don’t have 2 in a row, a score makes the game different and the 4th quarter play calling different, was there a need to go hurry up ? Coaching inconsistency caused the false starts, unfortunately we are not yet in the mindset to change our timing on the line. Or perhaps Sims cadence turns into a different tone when he is hurrying, I don’t know. But when we changed our timing the current personnel wasn’t ready for it from a talent/mentality perspective, they will be but in a year or two but not now.

we also don’t know if Sims is picking the correct WR to throw to. He threw to a double covered guy on two long passes, one in the end zone should have been picked, the other was down the left sideline on a late possession, if that WR is double covered there was likely an open guy underneath, Sims being young wants to force the big throw, so the coaches have to take that option from him by not calling plays where WRs are streaking, late in games, I think he try’s to force it downfield because he doesn’t understand how much time he has left in the game Or the situation yet.

so yes talent can both cover up bad coaching decisions and help the coaching improve but the coaches have to rely on their basics also, either we are developing a program or we are strategizing to win one game, current talent says it can’t be both, not yet.

Collins said the reason he didn’t kick the FG in the first half is that we were down to our #3 holder who had never done it yet in a game even for a PAT, so he did t want to do that to him.
 

augustabuzz

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When we go for it on 4th down it seems like we are choosing slow developing plays that start too deep in the backfield. With a defense crowding the line and run blitzing it seems inevitable that penetration into the backfield is going to blow the play up. Anyone have any insight into this? Or am I just too fond of quick hitters in short yardage 4th down situations?
That's a scheme defect. Geometry can help explain the problem when everyone is bunched with 1 yard to gain and the QB is 5-6 yards deep.
 

684Bee

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Collins said the reason he didn’t kick the FG in the first half is that we were down to our #3 holder who had never done it yet in a game even for a PAT, so he did t want to do that to him.
Who held for the 2 fgs we kicked? If the same guy, then what he said doesn’t make much sense.
 
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