Midline triple option

[1939hotmagic]

Here's the link to an interesting, very brief article about the midline triple option, written by Div. 3 Ripon College's OC, Rick Coles. Ripon's often among the top Div. 3 rushing offenses (though this past season they had the equivalent of Tech's 2015 slog), and Cole has run a Tech-ish offense, QB under center, for over 20 years.

Given that most of us wouldn't be surprised to see Tech run more midline in 2017 with Jordan at QB, here ya go:

http://www.afmservers.com/share/the-midline-triple-option-at-ripon-college-part-i/

 

[zhavenor]

Here's the link to an interesting, very brief article about the midline triple option, written by Div. 3 Ripon College's OC, Rick Coles. Ripon's often among the top Div. 3 rushing offenses (though this past season they had the equivalent of Tech's 2015 slog), and Cole has run a Tech-ish offense, QB under center, for over 20 years.

Given that most of us wouldn't be surprised to see Tech run more midline in 2017 with Jordan at QB, here ya go:

http://www.afmservers.com/share/the-midline-triple-option-at-ripon-college-part-i/

I've seen them play a couple of times, Ripon is the town where Ripon good cookies are from but that might a more regional thing. They run a 33 defense. The last time I've seen Tech run the midline triple was I think the year we played Air force in the bowl game. There was a time when it, midline triple, was the suggested audible for eagle defensive alignment, center and guard covered on play side. At least from the Navy coaches about 2010 or 2011. Thanks for sharing the article. I was thinking about going to a game in Ripon a couple years ago but was worried that they were no longer under center and it would have been a wasted 1.5 hour drive one way. I might check a game out next year

 

[1939hotmagic]

Part 2 from Rick Coles, noted above:
http://www.afmservers.com/share/the-midline-triple-option-at-ripon-college-part-ii/


And one more on the midline triple option, particularly for Xs and Os guys . . .
https://www.xandolabs.com/index.php...dline-triple-vs-odd-stack&catid=99&Itemid=163

 

[takethepoints]

I think this is what we call a counter option. It is essentially an inside veer with a fake of the QB in one direction and then a straight veer in the other. JT was really good at this because he was so fast; it was hard to adjust. Hard to make the first read to the BB work unless the OL is up to snuff, however.

What Tech calls the midline is a straight double option up the gut between the QB and BB. With the right QB–Matt Jordan, for instance–that can be deadly. Not so much with JT; it was a waste of his talents. Why run up the middle when you are getting such production on the edge?

 

[bke1984]

I think this is what we call a counter option. It is essentially an inside veer with a fake of the QB in one direction and then a straight veer in the other. JT was really good at this because he was so fast; it was hard to adjust. Hard to make the first read to the BB work unless the OL is up to snuff, however.

What Tech calls the midline is a straight double option up the gut between the QB and BB. With the right QB–Matt Jordan, for instance–that can be deadly. Not so much with JT; it was a waste of his talents. Why run up the middle when you are getting such production on the edge?

I don't think we will run the counter much with Jordan. He's not slow, by any means, but he's not JT either. That counter play requires a ton of speed to get to the edge before it gets blown up.

This is actually my least favorite play in our playbook. I know it's got its moments, but it seems to breakdown more than most of the others as it develops so slowly. I cringe every time I see it developing.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I don't think we will run the counter much with Jordan. He's not slow, by any means, but he's not JT either. That counter play requires a ton of speed to get to the edge before it gets blown up.

This is actually my least favorite play in our playbook. I know it's got its moments, but it seems to breakdown more than most of the others as it develops so slowly. I cringe every time I see it developing.

This counter worked out ok:



Counter plays are successful when defenses are cheating on motion. This particular option doesn't rely on qb footspeed one bit. The counter I think you are referring to does, but if the D is biting on motion, I think MJ has enough speed to make it work. The critical factor is getting favorable numbers on the actual playside. Guys making their blocks is also critical, but that holds for all plays.

 

[AE 87]

I think this is what we call a counter option. It is essentially an inside veer with a fake of the QB in one direction and then a straight veer in the other. JT was really good at this because he was so fast; it was hard to adjust. Hard to make the first read to the BB work unless the OL is up to snuff, however.

What Tech calls the midline is a straight double option up the gut between the QB and BB. With the right QB–Matt Jordan, for instance–that can be deadly. Not so much with JT; it was a waste of his talents. Why run up the middle when you are getting such production on the edge?

It looks like a midline to me, just with the twirl motion of playside aback. The dive is straight up the middle and the dive key is the DT.

 

[Bennett]

This counter worked out ok:



Counter plays are successful when defenses are cheating on motion. This particular option doesn't rely on qb footspeed one bit. The counter I think you are referring to does, but if the D is biting on motion, I think MJ has enough speed to make it work. The critical factor is getting favorable numbers on the actual playside. Guys making their blocks is also critical, but that holds for all plays.

This play was a counter play but was not the counter option that we used to run run with JT. This was a straight counter give

 

[dressedcheeseside]

This play was a counter play but was not the counter option that we used to run run with JT. This was a straight counter give

Yeah I know I said that in my post.

 

[bke1984]

This counter worked out ok:



Counter plays are successful when defenses are cheating on motion. This particular option doesn't rely on qb footspeed one bit. The counter I think you are referring to does, but if the D is biting on motion, I think MJ has enough speed to make it work. The critical factor is getting favorable numbers on the actual playside. Guys making their blocks is also critical, but that holds for all plays.

Yeah, I agree...but those two plays are not really close to the same thing. This one develops a whole lot faster than the counter option. Even JT had a tough time with the counter option most of the times.

 

[bke1984]

Yeah, I agree...but those two plays are not really close to the same thing. This one develops a whole lot faster than the counter option. Even JT had a tough time with the counter option most of the times.

Oh, and btw, if we run this play (the toss counter) in OT against Georgia in 2013 we probably score and get a chance to go for two and win...instead we run the toss and get blown up. Toss was working all games, so I get it, but it was just a perfect time to switch it up.

...could have also made a FG or gotten a stop on fourth down or any number of other stupid things to win...ugh, that ones till pisses me off

 

[Bennett]

Yeah I know I said that in my post.

Not sure why this got brought up when the counter option was being referenced. Two totally different plays

 

[AE 87]

This counter is easy to clean and resists stains.

 

[takethepoints]

It looks like a midline to me, just with the twirl motion of playside aback. The dive is straight up the middle and the dive key is the DT.

I didn't get that from the diagrams in Part 2 of the Ripon coach's post. In those, the twirl motion is by the QB and the play side AB takes two steps (I think we only use one) in the opposite direction then heads out to block play side like in the inside veer. The opposite side AB hesitates in place then runs to the play side, keeping the pitch relation. That's what we do on the counter option, if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, this isn't what we call a midline. You're right about the keys, of course.

This isn't to say that you couldn't run a regular double option midline out of this; it looks like Ripon might, though I couldn't tell. That's a lot of extra business, however and I've never seen us do it. The midline looses its advantage if it isn't a bang-bang play.

Btw, I think Matthew is easy fast enough to fun the counter option, but why bother? His forte has been - and will be, if he recovers fully - the straight midline and the inside veer, with an occasional speed option thrown in. Basic Navy QB/BB stuff, iow.

 

[gt13]

This counter worked out ok:



Counter plays are successful when defenses are cheating on motion. This particular option doesn't rely on qb footspeed one bit. The counter I think you are referring to does, but if the D is biting on motion, I think MJ has enough speed to make it work. The critical factor is getting favorable numbers on the actual playside. Guys making their blocks is also critical, but that holds for all plays.

Gotta love how the crowd starts cheering for the touchdown before Orwin even crosses the line of scrimmage.

 

[AE 87]

I didn't get that from the diagrams in Part 2 of the Ripon coach's post. In those, the twirl motion is by the QB and the play side AB takes two steps (I think we only use one) in the opposite direction then heads out to block play side like in the inside veer. The opposite side AB hesitates in place then runs to the play side, keeping the pitch relation. That's what we do on the counter option, if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, this isn't what we call a midline. You're right about the keys, of course.

This isn't to say that you couldn't run a regular double option midline out of this; it looks like Ripon might, though I couldn't tell. That's a lot of extra business, however and I've never seen us do it. The midline looses its advantage if it isn't a bang-bang play.

Btw, I think Matthew is easy fast enough to fun the counter option, but why bother? His forte has been - and will be, if he recovers fully - the straight midline and the inside veer, with an occasional speed option thrown in. Basic Navy QB/BB stuff, iow.

I was looking at that part2 diagram too. The QB isn't twirling, iiuc, but stepping back to allow the Bback to go run at the Cs backside.

I agree that I don't think we've run that playside aback counter motion with midline. We also block midline differently, iiuc, and rarely if ever run a midline triple.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Not sure why this got brought up when the counter option was being referenced. Two totally different plays

It's just a counter play in our arsenal that's been effective, partly because it's quick hitting. The slow developing counter option hasn't been very successful even with speedy JT running it, I wouldn't mind scrapping that play altogether.

 

[zhavenor]

I didn't get that from the diagrams in Part 2 of the Ripon coach's post. In those, the twirl motion is by the QB and the play side AB takes two steps (I think we only use one) in the opposite direction then heads out to block play side like in the inside veer. The opposite side AB hesitates in place then runs to the play side, keeping the pitch relation. That's what we do on the counter option, if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, this isn't what we call a midline. You're right about the keys, of course.

This isn't to say that you couldn't run a regular double option midline out of this; it looks like Ripon might, though I couldn't tell. That's a lot of extra business, however and I've never seen us do it. The midline looses its advantage if it isn't a bang-bang play.

Btw, I think Matthew is easy fast enough to fun the counter option, but why bother? His forte has been - and will be, if he recovers fully - the straight midline and the inside veer, with an occasional speed option thrown in. Basic Navy QB/BB stuff, iow.

The play that was diagramed was the midline for the qb and bb action. That is how you draw it up. The A back motion for the midline like that would be a white call if memory serve me right, I believe we ran the some against Miss St in the bowl game. The only difference is that you are leaving 2 unblocked instead of one. The backside AB can get pitch relationship because delay in the QB getting to the outside. Midline triple can be run without motion at all. That was the point the coach was making in the article. It is an inexpensive counter play if you run midline and triple option. Although what position you are to exploit I would think would be different. Our Counter option, the one with the pulling guard, is trying to counter the back side linebacker making a tackle on the BB on the triple. I would think the play would be good against an overly aggressive back side safety. Like I said earlier I believe we ran it the year we play Air Force in the bowl game. In fact I believe we ran it in the bowl game against them with Anthony Allen as the BB. It does not look messy at all. Here is another link to a different article on it. Don't confuse the motion with the play. https://flexboneassociationacademy.com/2014/07/11/midline-triple-against-double-eagle/
and a write up on regular midline. Notice in the next one player is left unblocked.
https://flexboneassociationacademy.com/2014/02/18/x-and-o-labs-midline-article/

 

[takethepoints]

I think we're getting confused on terminology here. What the diagrams at the flexbone site show is a regular midline involving a double option with fakes. That's what we run. That they are calling it a "midline triple" isn't changing either the number of options or the blocking, as Z points out. If I'm not mistaken, our counter option is a true triple, not a double option like they are diagramming at the flex bone site. Further, the counter above that the Cheese shows us isn't an option play at all; it's a straight counter. We ran something like it when I was in high school. I think this is a matter of coaches using different descriptions of what a "triple" is.

But, despite that, I think everybody is on the same page about how the plays work.

 

[takethepoints]

I got a little curious about the blocking and went over to youtube on a gamble. And I found:



This is Alex Carrick's Flexbone 101 series. Really good, basic, short videos and all the examples are Tech films. Hard to beat that. Only usual suspect missing (I think) is the Belly Dive that we used to such effect in the Orange Bowl. I learned a good bit from watching these, especially the "when to run <play>" parts.