Michigan State settlement

[orientalnc]

I wonder how much of this the athletic department will pay.

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/michigan-state-nassar-victims-reach-500m-settlement-55207955

 

[MikeJackets1967]

I wonder how much of this the athletic department will pay.

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/michigan-state-nassar-victims-reach-500m-settlement-55207955

With all the vile stuff going on in the Michigan State Athletic Department i think they should get an old time NCAA type penalty of something like three years with no football or basketball games on TV along with no Bowl Games or NCAA Tournaments and severe cuts to their recruiting.

 

[kg01]

If the UNCAA gets away with saying there were technically no "NCAA rules" violated then ... smdh, I mean, why have they not been disbanded yet anyways?

Kinda hope MichSt rots for this. Not only did they handle the time period in question poorly, they even mishandled the aftermath spectacularly.

 

[orientalnc]

We have to keep this in perspective. No matter how bad the Mich St offense was, it was certain not this bad:

"In July 2011, Tech was put on probation for four years, stripped of its 2009 ACC football title, fined $100,000 and found to have failed to meet the conditions and obligations of NCAA membership. The punishment stemmed from an impermissible-benefits investigation into former Tech football star Demaryius Thomas for receiving $312 worth of free clothing from a representative of a sports agency.

The NCAA’s punishment centered more on Tech’s response to the investigation, which the governing body said was combative and confrontational."

I am not sure where this interpretation of the rules was hiding when the NCAA essentially punted on the UNC scandal. So, maybe there's nothing in the NCAA rule book about sexual assault occurring for decades.

 

[jeffgt14]

We have to keep this in perspective. No matter how bad the Mich St offense was, it was certain not this bad:

"In July 2011, Tech was put on probation for four years, stripped of its 2009 ACC football title, fined $100,000 and found to have failed to meet the conditions and obligations of NCAA membership. The punishment stemmed from an impermissible-benefits investigation into former Tech football star Demaryius Thomas for receiving $312 worth of free clothing from a representative of a sports agency.

The NCAA’s punishment centered more on Tech’s response to the investigation, which the governing body said was combative and confrontational."

I am not sure where this interpretation of the rules was hiding when the NCAA essentially punted on the UNC scandal. So, maybe there's nothing in the NCAA rule book about sexual assault occurring for decades.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

UNCheat literally ran fake classes for decades so athletes could remain eligible. Outside of maybe direct payments to players, it doesn't get any more egregious than that...and specifically to the purpose of why the NCAA exists. So the fact they did nothing tells you that probably zero will happen to Michigan State.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

UNCheat literally ran fake classes for decades so athletes could remain eligible. Outside of maybe direct payments to players, it doesn't get any more egregious than that...and specifically to the purpose of why the NCAA exists. So the fact they did nothing tells you that probably zero will happen to Michigan State.

North Carolina did the same thing Ole Miss did in the early 1990s however unlike Ole Miss, North Carolina got away with it

 

[GTpdm]

North Carolina did the same thing Ole Miss did in the early 1990s however unlike Ole Miss, North Carolina got away with it for decades

ftfy...

 

[MikeJackets1967]

ftfy...

 

[first&ten]

With all the vile stuff going on in the Michigan State Athletic Department i think they should get an old time NCAA type penalty of something like three years with no football or basketball games on TV along with no Bowl Games or NCAA Tournaments and severe cuts to their recruiting.

In regards tothe Nassar sexual assaults , this was criminal case, nothing to do with a NCAA.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

In regards tothe Nassar sexual assaults , this was criminal case, nothing to do with a NCAA.

I think its the opposite of that. The settlement is specifically for student athletes at Michigan State who were abused by Larry Nassar while he was there (and the coverups).

 

[first&ten]

I think its the opposite of that. The settlement is specifically for student athletes at Michigan State who were abused by Larry Nassar while he was there (and the coverups).

Yes, but they were victims of a criminal act by Nassar , that's why he was on trial. If anything else, any MSU employee who tried to cover for him would have been charged also.

 

[RonJohn]

I think its the opposite of that. The settlement is specifically for student athletes at Michigan State who were abused by Larry Nassar while he was there (and the coverups).

Criminal assaults should be investigated by the police and prosecuted by prosecutors to put people in jail. Find anywhere in the NCAA rules that sexual assault or cover ups of sexual assault are discussed.

That is not to say that sexual assaults are OK. Simply that it is above the responsibility of the NCAA to enforce. Those types of things should be left to law enforcement who has actual power to punish such perpetrators. Universities that allow such things to happen, Mich. State and Baylor being two examples, should face a backlash from perspective female students and from parents. Too early to tell for Mich. State, but in the case of Baylor it is obvious that coeds are still happy to attend a school that authorizes rape and kicks out rape victims who dare stand up. It is also obvious that their parents are more than happy to send them to a school that endorses rape. Those observations should be much more concerning than a sports authority allowing police organizations to investigate and prosecute criminal activity.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Criminal assaults should be investigated by the police and prosecuted by prosecutors to put people in jail. Find anywhere in the NCAA rules that sexual assault or cover ups of sexual assault are discussed.

That is not to say that sexual assaults are OK. Simply that it is above the responsibility of the NCAA to enforce. Those types of things should be left to law enforcement who has actual power to punish such perpetrators. Universities that allow such things to happen, Mich. State and Baylor being two examples, should face a backlash from perspective female students and from parents. Too early to tell for Mich. State, but in the case of Baylor it is obvious that coeds are still happy to attend a school that authorizes rape and kicks out rape victims who dare stand up. It is also obvious that their parents are more than happy to send them to a school that endorses rape. Those observations should be much more concerning than a sports authority allowing police organizations to investigate and prosecute criminal activity.

I guess I should have said it differently. Think Baylor. It’s not the sexual assault they should investigate, but the harm to student athletes by a lack of controls and the behavior of employees who did it and covered it up.

 

[RonJohn]

I guess I should have said it differently. Think Baylor. It’s not the sexual assault they should investigate, but the harm to student athletes by a lack of controls and the behavior of employees who did it and covered it up.

I think the Baylor case should be(or have been investigated), but not about harm to students or behavior of the employees. It should have been about potential impermissible benefits to the football players. The players potentially received legal advice and legal intervention that had to have had a monetary value. That is the one thing that would be against NCAA rules. Coaches and athletic department employees allegedly threatened and tampered with victims and witnesses. That is not an NCAA violation but a violation of law. Those people should have been investigated by law enforcement and put on trial if the evidence supported it.

At Michigan State, what NCAA recruiting, amateurism, academic, or competition rules were allegedly violated? I haven't seen any. There was a doctor who sexually assaulted many athletes over a long period of time. He was convicted. There are other doctors, coaches, and administrators who ignored pleas from those who were being assaulted. Those people should be investigated and indicted if the evidence supports it. As far as I can tell, it has absolutely nothing to do with NCAA compliance, the football team, or the basketball team. I don't understand at all why some people believe that the NCAA punishing the basketball or football team has anything to do with sexual assaults on gymnasts and the whitewashing of the assaults by employees of the gymnastics team and sports medicine departments.

 

[orientalnc]

I posted this because I feel the debate at Mich St should be about where the money is coming from to pay the $500 million settlement. Clearly, the athletic association doesn't have a spare half billion sitting around, so what other sources are there? This is not an NCAA issue, except to note that we got four years of probation because we disagreed with the NCAA about $300 worth of T-shirts given to a guy about to be drafted in the NFL.

One of the main violations was that we "failed to meet the conditions and obligations of NCAA membership." If having a safe place for athletes to live, train, and compete is not one of those conditions, maybe it should be. Remember, Larry Nassar was an employee of Mich St athletics.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I posted this because I feel the debate at Mich St should be about where the money is coming from to pay the $500 million settlement. Clearly, the athletic association doesn't have a spare half billion sitting around, so what other sources are there? This is not an NCAA issue, except to note that we got four years of probation because we disagreed with the NCAA about $300 worth of T-shirts given to a guy about to be drafted in the NFL.

One of the main violations was that we "failed to meet the conditions and obligations of NCAA membership." If having a safe place for athletes to live, train, and compete is not one of those conditions, maybe it should be. Remember, Larry Nassar was an employee of Mich St athletics.

Yup, and the NCAA is about far more than football and basketball. /ducks But for real, the safety of all student athletes matters. When the administration hides and covers up legitimate assault allegations, there is significant harm done to their student athletes. If you read that settlement, there were multiple HUNDREDS assaulted. Sad.

 

[RonJohn]

I posted this because I feel the debate at Mich St should be about where the money is coming from to pay the $500 million settlement. Clearly, the athletic association doesn't have a spare half billion sitting around, so what other sources are there? This is not an NCAA issue, except to note that we got four years of probation because we disagreed with the NCAA about $300 worth of T-shirts given to a guy about to be drafted in the NFL.

One of the main violations was that we "failed to meet the conditions and obligations of NCAA membership." If having a safe place for athletes to live, train, and compete is not one of those conditions, maybe it should be. Remember, Larry Nassar was an employee of Mich St athletics.

The allegations against GT were related to NCAA amateurism rules and Institutional Controls rules. In my opinion, the NCAA was extremely aggressive in the investigation and punishment in that case. However, it was about actual NCAA rules.

My big concern about the NCAA getting involved in criminal matters is that the NCAA does not have enough investigative or enforcement power to handle such matters. Some sports fans appear to believe that being investigated by the FBI is nothing when compared to being investigated by the NCAA. Would you want the NCAA to investigate if an NCAA coach shot and killed half the football team to see if they should shut down the football program instead of the police investigating and putting that coach in jail? It seems to me that too often sports fans conflate the purpose, jurisdiction, and power of the NCAA. NCAA violations are often referred to as "illegal" even though no criminal laws are broken only the rules of a private(as in non-government) organization. It seems that many times people do not understand that the NCAA is not a law enforcement organization. From the "Core Purpose" of the NCAA:

Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.

They do use the word "safe", but it is in the context of competition being "fair, safe, equitable, and sportsmanlike". That core purpose is what the NCAA is set up for and what they are supposed to have rules and enforcement for. I don't think the rules or enforcement are extremely effective nor are they enforced evenly. However, that is what they are for and what they should limit themselves to.

If an NCAA investigator were to walk upon a rape or a child molestation in progress, he/she as a person should definitely try to stop the perp and assist the victim. That investigator and the NCAA leadership should report that situation to the proper authorities. They should also ensure that the proper authorities are taking action and report it to higher authorities if no action is being taken. However, the NCAA should not take it upon itself to be the investigative and enforcement body for criminal activity unless that criminal activity also violated actual NCAA rules. Even then they should stay out of the way of the proper legal authorities until they have completed their investigations/prosecutions.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The allegations against GT were related to NCAA amateurism rules and Institutional Controls rules. In my opinion, the NCAA was extremely aggressive in the investigation and punishment in that case. However, it was about actual NCAA rules.

My big concern about the NCAA getting involved in criminal matters is that the NCAA does not have enough investigative or enforcement power to handle such matters. Some sports fans appear to believe that being investigated by the FBI is nothing when compared to being investigated by the NCAA. Would you want the NCAA to investigate if an NCAA coach shot and killed half the football team to see if they should shut down the football program instead of the police investigating and putting that coach in jail? It seems to me that too often sports fans conflate the purpose, jurisdiction, and power of the NCAA. NCAA violations are often referred to as "illegal" even though no criminal laws are broken only the rules of a private(as in non-government) organization. It seems that many times people do not understand that the NCAA is not a law enforcement organization. From the "Core Purpose" of the NCAA:



They do use the word "safe", but it is in the context of competition being "fair, safe, equitable, and sportsmanlike". That core purpose is what the NCAA is set up for and what they are supposed to have rules and enforcement for. I don't think the rules or enforcement are extremely effective nor are they enforced evenly. However, that is what they are for and what they should limit themselves to.

If an NCAA investigator were to walk upon a rape or a child molestation in progress, he/she as a person should definitely try to stop the perp and assist the victim. That investigator and the NCAA leadership should report that situation to the proper authorities. They should also ensure that the proper authorities are taking action and report it to higher authorities if no action is being taken. However, the NCAA should not take it upon itself to be the investigative and enforcement body for criminal activity unless that criminal activity also violated actual NCAA rules. Even then they should stay out of the way of the proper legal authorities until they have completed their investigations/prosecutions.

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t believe anybody is here is saying that the NCAA should investigate Michigan State instead of the police. Those are Completely different matters. One is a criminal case. The other is failing to have controls in place and being able to protect their student athletes. And the administrations cover-up of knowledge of the assaults.

Penn State got in a lot of trouble (by the NCAA) not just because of a sexual assault, but also because of the resulting cover-up.

 

[RonJohn]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t believe anybody is here is saying that the NCAA should investigate Michigan State instead of the police. Those are Completely different matters. One is a criminal case. The other is failing to have controls in place and being able to protect their student athletes. And the administrations cover-up of knowledge of the assaults.

Penn State got in a lot of trouble (by the NCAA) not just because of a sexual assault, but also because of the resulting cover-up.

Only because they agreed to the punishment. When Penn State was about to appeal the NCAA caved immediately. A year or so after the settlement with Penn State there were widespread complaints that the NCAA had overreached with respect to their actual authority. They then swung too far away from in the other direction in the Baylor case. It seemed to me that there were clear instances of impermissible benefits in the Baylor case. Apparently the NCAA didn't investigate because they were concerned about the overreach in the Penn State case.

What the NCAA should do is investigate violations of the NCAA's rules but only the NCAA's rules. They should investigate and enforce those violations timely and evenly. In my opinion the NCAA swings back and forth too much. They take many years to investigate USC football and then magically reach a conclusion only when USC football reaches a slump and isn't a money magnet. During that same time they had slammed smaller schools for lesser offenses with less evidence than in the USC case. In the Penn State case they came down hard on Penn State based on public sentiment, but there wasn't even an allegation of any NCAA rule being violated. Then in the Baylor case, I don't think they even investigated what appeared to be legal services and legal remedies that had monetary value potentially broke actual NCAA rules. If I remember correctly there were rumblings that they were concerned about similarities with the Penn State case(sexual assault in nature) and the overreach in that case. They should look at a potential allegation and ask: If this is true does it violate an NCAA rule? If the answer is yes, then they should investigate. If the answer is no, then they shouldn't. Acting or not acting on something because of concern about what the public thinks makes the organization look weak and pathetic.