Matt Rhule/Collins Connection

bikeseat

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The more we hear out of Carolina, the more I wonder if CGC picked up some of his bad habits coaching/media management from Ruhle at their similar stops along the way

Players seem to like him but his X/O mastery is certainly lacking

As GCG comes from this same coaching tree (4yrs together at Western Carolina) it's quite interesting how panthers fans have similar complaints as this board about 2 coaches who worked together for years. Also, at Temple (see link below) Collins basically copied Ruhle's approach word for word with varying degrees fo success.

Interesting thing to debate


 

TromboneJacket

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One similarity that made me chuckle was the title quote. As an NFL owner, he should be embarrassed giving out a 7-year contract to a coach who’s new to the NFL. In our case, giving Collins a 7-year contract wasn’t ideal, but I don’t think we had much leverage with prospective hires. The Carolina Panthers, on the other hand, have no such excuse. They have plenty of money and are a pretty attractive destination for a head coach.
 

slugboy

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Carolina’s previous owner (Richardson) did let Ron Rivera wreck Cam Newton. It’s a new coach and a new owner, but I have to go back a ways to remember a franchise grinding down a QB like that.
Well, maybe just to Indy with Andrew Luck.
Carolina does seem to wear their stars out.
 

bobongo

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The more we hear out of Carolina, the more I wonder if CGC picked up some of his bad habits coaching/media management from Ruhle at their similar stops along the way

Players seem to like him but his X/O mastery is certainly lacking

As GCG comes from this same coaching tree (4yrs together at Western Carolina) it's quite interesting how panthers fans have similar complaints as this board about 2 coaches who worked together for years. Also, at Temple (see link below) Collins basically copied Ruhle's approach word for word with varying degrees fo success.

Interesting thing to debate


Matt Ruhle has a spectacular college coaching record. I wish some of it would have rubbed off on Collins.
 

DvilleJacket

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Matt Ruhle has a spectacular college coaching record. I wish some of it would have rubbed off on Collins.
I just checked out his wiki, remember him doing pretty good at Temple and having one good year at Baylor. He never beat anyone ranked while at Baylor and had one good upset at Temple beating Penn State.
 

bobongo

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I just checked out his wiki, remember him doing pretty good at Temple and having one good year at Baylor. He never beat anyone ranked while at Baylor and had one good upset at Temple beating Penn State.
Spectacular improvements at both stops. Finished with the two best records in Temple history his last two seasons and took Baylor to the Sugar Bowl.
YearTeamOverallConferenceStandingBowl/playoffsCoaches#AP°
Temple Owls (American Athletic Conference) (2013–2016)
2013Temple2–101–7T–9th
2014Temple6–64–46th
2015Temple10–47–11st (East)L Boca Raton
2016Temple10–37–11st (East)Military*
Temple:28–2319–13* Departed Temple for Baylor before bowl game
Baylor Bears (Big 12 Conference) (2017–2019)
2017Baylor1–111–89th
2018Baylor7–64–5T–5thW Texas
2019Baylor11–38–12ndL Sugar1213
Baylor:19–2013–14
Total:47–43
 

tmhunter52

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Apparently, the Panthers’ owner has a better grasp of his situation than does TStan. It’s eerie that you can almost just interchange Rhule and Collins in that article…
 

Techster

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Spectacular improvements at both stops. Finished with the two best records in Temple history his last two seasons and took Baylor to the Sugar Bowl.
YearTeamOverallConferenceStandingBowl/playoffsCoaches#AP°
Temple Owls (American Athletic Conference) (2013–2016)
2013Temple2–101–7T–9th
2014Temple6–64–46th
2015Temple10–47–11st (East)L Boca Raton
2016Temple10–37–11st (East)Military*
Temple:28–2319–13* Departed Temple for Baylor before bowl game
Baylor Bears (Big 12 Conference) (2017–2019)
2017Baylor1–111–89th
2018Baylor7–64–5T–5thW Texas
2019Baylor11–38–12ndL Sugar1213
Baylor:19–2013–14
Total:47–43

Rhule inherited an absolute mess with the Baylor sexual assault scandal.

Look at his 3rd year at each stop. Look at his 2nd year at each stop. This guy can coach college football. The NFL is a different beast. Saban, who will go down as one of the greatest football coaches in college football, was not a very good HC for the Dolphins. Urban Meyer...one of the best football coaches in college football history absolutely bombed in the NFL.

Matt Rhule is probably a better college football coach than an NFL coach. I'd take him at GT and it would be a great hire.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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Rhule inherited an absolute mess with the Baylor sexual assault scandal.

Look at his 3rd year at each stop. Look at his 2nd year at each stop. This guy can coach college football. The NFL is a different beast. Saban, who will go down as one of the greatest football coaches in college football, was not a very good HC for the Dolphins. Urban Meyer...one of the best football coaches in college football history absolutely bombed in the NFL.

Matt Rhule is probably a better college football coach than an NFL coach. I'd take him at GT and it would be a great hire.
I agree. Unlike Collins, I believe he really knows the Xs & Os. I could be wrong, but the NFL is not for all good college coaches.
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

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If we are really interested in debate, I would argue that anyone who negotiates a contract that wil pay them 7 to 8 or more figures is indeed successful. In fact, very successful. As the meme says, change my mind.
Chase Daniel - first ballot NFL Business Hall of Fame. Made over $40M and has started less than 10 games.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Rhule inherited an absolute mess with the Baylor sexual assault scandal.

Look at his 3rd year at each stop. Look at his 2nd year at each stop. This guy can coach college football. The NFL is a different beast. Saban, who will go down as one of the greatest football coaches in college football, was not a very good HC for the Dolphins. Urban Meyer...one of the best football coaches in college football history absolutely bombed in the NFL.

Matt Rhule is probably a better college football coach than an NFL coach. I'd take him at GT and it would be a great hire.
I’ve always argued that Saban didn’t do well in the NFL for two reasons. He needs to be able to run an organization his way from top to bottom, something you rarely get to do in the NFL, and, his system is built on having better players than the other coaches and there’s too much parity in the NFL. Though I would love to have Saban at Tech I believe he would be an only slightly above average coach here. Bill Curry showed us that coaching at Alabama is different than coaching at Tech.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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I’ve always argued that Saban didn’t do well in the NFL for two reasons. He needs to be able to run an organization his way from top to bottom, something you rarely get to do in the NFL, and, his system is built on having better players than the other coaches and there’s too much parity in the NFL. Though I would love to have Saban at Tech I believe he would be an only slightly above average coach here. Bill Curry showed us that coaching at Alabama is different than coaching at Tech.
When Saban was traveling with Mal Moore to his introductory press conference in Tuscaloosa, he asked Mal, "You think you just got the best college coach in the country, don't you?" Not sure Mal's response, but Saban basically told Mal "you are not", but you are getting one of the best recruiters and no one would outwork him. Saban knows he is average as an X's and O's coach, but he is a type A, micro-managing wild man who works 24/7 and runs a very tight ship. And, he has letters from NFL coaches like Belichik and others that say to recruits, "if you play in his system, you will be looked at an considered for an NFL job no matter how much you actually play at Bama." So many people believe sa(t)an is able to get the 5 star and 4 star kids because of "pay offs", but that wasn't really true before NIL, but now they will have to pay the $$ just like everyone else. Some of Saban's advantages will be mitigated by NIL, and that is the truth. But, I expect the boosters will pay what it takes, and Saban's advantages he has had for some time will continue to tip the scales more times than not.

Back to your original point, I think he would do decently at a school like GT, because if he took the job, which he would not, he would be all in. With that said, he would almost assuredly not be able to recruit to a level he needs to win it all. He is much more like the NBA's Phil Jackson than he is a coach that can develop players and create a system that can beat teams with better talent.
 

Northeast Stinger

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When Saban was traveling with Mal Moore to his introductory press conference in Tuscaloosa, he asked Mal, "You think you just got the best college coach in the country, don't you?" Not sure Mal's response, but Saban basically told Mal "you are not", but you are getting one of the best recruiters and no one would outwork him. Saban knows he is average as an X's and O's coach, but he is a type A, micro-managing wild man who works 24/7 and runs a very tight ship. And, he has letters from NFL coaches like Belichik and others that say to recruits, "if you play in his system, you will be looked at an considered for an NFL job no matter how much you actually play at Bama." So many people believe sa(t)an is able to get the 5 star and 4 star kids because of "pay offs", but that wasn't really true before NIL, but now they will have to pay the $$ just like everyone else. Some of Saban's advantages will be mitigated by NIL, and that is the truth. But, I expect the boosters will pay what it takes, and Saban's advantages he has had for some time will continue to tip the scales more times than not.

Back to your original point, I think he would do decently at a school like GT, because if he took the job, which he would not, he would be all in. With that said, he would almost assuredly not be able to recruit to a level he needs to win it all. He is much more like the NBA's Phil Jackson than he is a coach that can develop players and create a system that can beat teams with better talent.
Agree with all of this but have one question. Alabama doesn’t have bagmen?
 

Skeptic

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Carolina’s previous owner (Richardson) did let Ron Rivera wreck Cam Newton. It’s a new coach and a new owner, but I have to go back a ways to remember a franchise grinding down a QB like that.
Well, maybe just to Indy with Andrew Luck.
Carolina does seem to wear their stars out.
How's about Washington and Griffin? That was criminal.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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Agree with all of this but have one question. Alabama doesn’t have bagmen?
Sure they do, if you mean guys who reward players for things. All of these teams have guys that will do some of the handshakes, let them drive cars, etc. But, now, with NIL, it will be above board. My only point is that previously, Saban had built such an NFL factory at Bama, he actually could say "no" to some high recruits. Not many teams can do such a thing. All these kids cared about prior to NIL is the "show" - I mean the 4/5 star guys. Of course, this is a generalization, but for 90%, it is true. "Where can I go that will give me the best chance to get to the show healthy and highly sought out?"

Allbarn and LSU and others did not have that luxury, in general.
 

Oldgoldandwhite

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Spectacular improvements at both stops. Finished with the two best records in Temple history his last two seasons and took Baylor to the Sugar Bowl.
YearTeamOverallConferenceStandingBowl/playoffsCoaches#AP°
Temple Owls (American Athletic Conference) (2013–2016)
2013Temple2–101–7T–9th
2014Temple6–64–46th
2015Temple10–47–11st (East)L Boca Raton
2016Temple10–37–11st (East)Military*
Temple:28–2319–13* Departed Temple for Baylor before bowl game
Baylor Bears (Big 12 Conference) (2017–2019)
2017Baylor1–111–89th
2018Baylor7–64–5T–5thW Texas
2019Baylor11–38–12ndL Sugar1213
Baylor:19–2013–14
Total:47–43
His progress at Temple and Baylor is what I envisioned here. Slow year one, break even year two, and set the woods on fire in year three. Alas...
 

Ibeeballin

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The more we hear out of Carolina, the more I wonder if CGC picked up some of his bad habits coaching/media management from Ruhle at their similar stops along the way

Players seem to like him but his X/O mastery is certainly lacking

As GCG comes from this same coaching tree (4yrs together at Western Carolina) it's quite interesting how panthers fans have similar complaints as this board about 2 coaches who worked together for years. Also, at Temple (see link below) Collins basically copied Ruhle's approach word for word with varying degrees fo success.

Interesting thing to debate



They are VERY similar from game management and pressers
 
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