Lineup for 2022-23

gdamian

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
What say you about the hoops roster for this season?

On the surface, losing the best pieces from a team that wasn't very good and not bringing in any 5* talent doesn't seem like this year is setup for a huge leap forward. What seems pretty settled is point with Sturdy and Deivon and Rodney at Center. There are four promising but still unproven guards in Maxwell, Coleman, Kelly and Terry. It seems likely that two of those four will start and the other two will get time as well. The last position seems rather up in the air from this (my) perspective. Will Moore or Franklin or possibly Meka be able to stand out or will the team function better with one of the other guards in the last spot? Here is my uniformed guess at the lineup:

PG: Study/Deivon
C: Howard
G: Coleman
G: Kelly
F/G: It up for grabs Franklin/Moore et al?

Seems likely that Freds will r/s. Does Jeromontae make a slash?

Since CJP likes to run about 8 guys are the 8 best: Study/Deivon/Howard/Coleman/Kelly/Franklin/Moore/Terry?
 

Jack

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
165
What say you about the hoops roster for this season?

On the surface, losing the best pieces from a team that wasn't very good and not bringing in any 5* talent doesn't seem like this year is setup for a huge leap forward. What seems pretty settled is point with Sturdy and Deivon and Rodney at Center. There are four promising but still unproven guards in Maxwell, Coleman, Kelly and Terry. It seems likely that two of those four will start and the other two will get time as well. The last position seems rather up in the air from this (my) perspective. Will Moore or Franklin or possibly Meka be able to stand out or will the team function better with one of the other guards in the last spot? Here is my uniformed guess at the lineup:

PG: Study/Deivon
C: Howard
G: Coleman
G: Kelly
F/G: It up for grabs Franklin/Moore et al?

Seems likely that Freds will r/s. Does Jeromontae make a slash?

Since CJP likes to run about 8 guys are the 8 best: Study/Deivon/Howard/Coleman/Kelly/Franklin/Moore/Terry?
It would be a more than pleasant surprise to see Howard bloom this year and next. He is such a nice kid and I’m practicing
“ wish “ craft for him
 

SecretAgentBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
784
Location
ends of the earth
Like every year, there is potential and hope springs eternal!

This year is really interesting in that we have 5 or maybe even 6 guys who could make a leap and become "the guy" but I can't exactly put my finger on which one (ones?). As I see it, DSmith, Deebo, Miles Kelly, Franklin, Terry, and even Maxwell could all average 12+ points/game (not all at the same time). I think we have a solid core, but we are in desperate need of...

1) A alpha scorer. We need somebody who is going to step up and say, "Give me the ball" when we need a basket.
2) A backup center. Howard is not going to play more than 30 minutes per game. Meka is a good shot-blocker, but lacks the size inside. Howard is our only center on the roster. Can Franklin get minutes at the 5?

If those two needs are solved, I can see us getting back into the top half of the ACC and looking for a potential NCAA bid. If not....well, we've all seen that movie before. Either way, I will be cheering them on!
 

AUFC

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,237
Location
Atlanta
Idk why
I’m high on maxwell coming out this year and becoming an alpha with a chip in his shoulder
The BC game last year ;)

I agree, he has an aura of confidence on him. I see it in Jalon Moore too but both are a little unpolished, which can be fixed. Both are fearless. Rodney started showing a bit of fearlessness at the low post in the second half of ACC play last year which is exciting. He had always seemed a little afraid of contact and going to the free throw line prior to that. We just need to keep him out of foul trouble on the defensive end.

I'm really excited about Miles Kelly and Deebo. The rim can look 10 feet wide on any given night for both guys and it'll be fun to see more of the scoring go through them with Devoe/Ush gone. I hope Sturdy/Deivon or an incoming transfer can be that slasher we need. It was Jose for a while, then Devoe picked up the slack there (who never was a naturally fast player but he figured out how to get easy buckets with his offseason footwork last year and beating defenders with his brain).
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,547
IMO our starting line up will look something like (back ups)

Sturdy (Smith)
Kelly (Terry)
Coleman (Maxwell)
Franklin (Moore)
Howard (Meka)

Based on that, I'd say we should be improved at the one and five spots by virtue of returning, effectively, everyone. I doubt Sturdy or Howard will be world beaters but they should provide us solid starter level play. IMO the some major questions are

1) What will be the new core of the team the way Jose/Moses/Devoe/Usher have been the past couple of years. IMO we have plenty of potential with Smith/Kelly/Terry/Coleman/Maxwell but how will they develop and how quickly will they develop. Last year I was hoping Coleman or Kelly would come more into their own and give us that third reliable scoring option but it seemed like they were always a bit too willing to defer to Usher and Devoe. Without hose two we lose a lot of production but it should also force some players into mentalities that well hopefully be better for them.

2) Can our coaching staff get away from the obsession with tiny ball experimentation. Last year we spent way too much time trying to make tiny ball with Ush at the 5 work. That just isn't a viable path. Rodney and Meka need to be playing nearly 100% of the minutes at the 5 outside of situational minutes like end game need a three or putting in ball handlers when the other team is going to foul.

3) Can we better utilize depth than we have so far under Pastner. This year's team lacks the proven top of the rotation guys like we've had in the recent past, but there doesn't look to be a lot drop off in talent from the first five to the next five. While it's certainly possible we see players step up and become that top of the rotation type of players (and if we want to have a surprise season we likely need that), if we don't, then we might be able to manufacturer a couple of extra wins through timely substitutions and managing momentum in that way.

Overall I think the team has a lot of good pieces but I think a lot would have to fall into place pretty quickly to have a really good season. I wouldn't be surprised if this season played out similar to the 19-20 season where we find our stride mid way through and finish strong but have a weaker start while we try to find our footing.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,750
IMO our starting line up will look something like (back ups)

Sturdy (Smith)
Kelly (Terry)
Coleman (Maxwell)
Franklin (Moore)
Howard (Meka)

Based on that, I'd say we should be improved at the one and five spots by virtue of returning, effectively, everyone. I doubt Sturdy or Howard will be world beaters but they should provide us solid starter level play. IMO the some major questions are

1) What will be the new core of the team the way Jose/Moses/Devoe/Usher have been the past couple of years. IMO we have plenty of potential with Smith/Kelly/Terry/Coleman/Maxwell but how will they develop and how quickly will they develop. Last year I was hoping Coleman or Kelly would come more into their own and give us that third reliable scoring option but it seemed like they were always a bit too willing to defer to Usher and Devoe. Without hose two we lose a lot of production but it should also force some players into mentalities that well hopefully be better for them.

2) Can our coaching staff get away from the obsession with tiny ball experimentation. Last year we spent way too much time trying to make tiny ball with Ush at the 5 work. That just isn't a viable path. Rodney and Meka need to be playing nearly 100% of the minutes at the 5 outside of situational minutes like end game need a three or putting in ball handlers when the other team is going to foul.

3) Can we better utilize depth than we have so far under Pastner. This year's team lacks the proven top of the rotation guys like we've had in the recent past, but there doesn't look to be a lot drop off in talent from the first five to the next five. While it's certainly possible we see players step up and become that top of the rotation type of players (and if we want to have a surprise season we likely need that), if we don't, then we might be able to manufacturer a couple of extra wins through timely substitutions and managing momentum in that way.

Overall I think the team has a lot of good pieces but I think a lot would have to fall into place pretty quickly to have a really good season. I wouldn't be surprised if this season played out similar to the 19-20 season where we find our stride mid way through and finish strong but have a weaker start while we try to find our footing.
Do you think Meka will get any time at the 4?

I know the thread is about the “starting” lineup, but I can see a 4G + 1C lineup.
 

MtnWasp

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
733
I have no idea.

This is a transition year for sure. Last season was supposed smooth the transition from the Alvarado-Wright-Devoe-Usher regime to a new era. But the pieces didn't come together in a productive way last year. So, that means the transition to this new regime will be abrupt.

I don't necessarily hold the expectation that the returning guys that were big minute players last season will hang onto those minutes this year. I think opportunities are wide open. I have a few guesses:

The only position that I see as pretty much hammered down by one guy is Ja'Von Franklin at the 4. Why? Because he brings to the floor something that no one else on the roster does: a physical defender, shot blocker, rebounder and banger. On O, he shoots a high percentage. His Win-Share was top 40 in the country last year and none of our guys come close to that level of versatility. We were missing competitive tenacity last season and anyone on the roster that shows up with a little Alvarado in him, will get the minutes, skills notwithstanding.

I think Terry will play for the same reason. I think that both our transfers were brought in to provide the roster the same thing: a hard-nosed, attacking style. We need guys who will make things happen on both ends.

Who among the rest emerges with the minutes will depend on the players. I tend to think that Sturdivant and Howard were supposed to emerge and become productive players LAST season, and neither did a very good job, IMO. Howard doesn't have a lot of competition at the moment but that is not true of Sturdivant. If Kyle wants to keep his minutes, he will have to be far, FAR more productive on both sides of the floor. Being good at "not making mistakes" is not enough. But, I honestly expect another player to supplant him, whether that be with Deivon Smith, Miles Kelly or even Tristan Maxwell (who in his few glimpses did show some Moxie). We need Moxie. Bad.

I am looking for Miles Kelly to emerge as a +ACC starter this year. I think we have enough coverage on the wing to get production from the 2 & 3 spots. If Franklin stays healthy, we are probably okay at the 4. That leaves becoming adequate in weakside post defense (lightyears away from adequacy based on last year) and assertive, creative, productive play from the PG spot. Those are the two BIG questions.

For this season to be any good, we need to shed the persona of last year's squad like a snake sheds it's skin. We need our guys to channel their inner Alvarado so that we have 5 guys on the floor who are all really getting after it. We'll need to see multiple players make substantial jumps in production to get back to >.500 in the ACC. I don't care who does it so long as multiple players do that.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,547
Do you think Meka will get any time at the 4?

I know the thread is about the “starting” lineup, but I can see a 4G + 1C lineup.

Probably some against bigger teams, especially if Moore isn't ready yet to "punch up" in weight class. With Franklin already not being much of a 3 point shooter (and by that I mean he shot 2 threes last year) our offense might already be more designed for that dynamic anyways.

The issue I see with Meka at the 4 is the same one I saw with Khalid last year. In a vacuum his defense probably warrants it, but with what we are likely to get from the 1 and 5 spots I don't think we can afford it. I think Howard and Sturdy will be solid starters but most of the heavy lifting offensively will need to come from the 2,3, and 4 spots unless they take really big leaps that I don't see happening. Maybe is Smith gets himself under control and lives up to his full potential, then meka might be a better lob or dump off target at the 4 and his defense could be more valuable.
 

MtnWasp

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
733
Meka is a tweener. He has the body of a 4 but the skills of a 5. That puts a very low ceiling on him unless he can develop some skills. He could be a + defender at the 4 and maybe could be a situational defensive substitution, but last year, there was very little sign of even rudimentary offensive skills for even a 5. I don't see how we could play Meka and Howard at the same time without our offense grinding to a complete stop (like when we tried to play Banks and Gueye together).
 

alagold

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,501
Location
Huntsville,Al
I have no idea.

This is a transition year for sure. Last season was supposed smooth the transition from the Alvarado-Wright-Devoe-Usher regime to a new era. But the pieces didn't come together in a productive way last year. So, that means the transition to this new regime will be abrupt.

I don't necessarily hold the expectation that the returning guys that were big minute players last season will hang onto those minutes this year. I think opportunities are wide open. I have a few guesses:

The only position that I see as pretty much hammered down by one guy is Ja'Von Franklin at the 4. Why? Because he brings to the floor something that no one else on the roster does: a physical defender, shot blocker, rebounder and banger. On O, he shoots a high percentage. His Win-Share was top 40 in the country last year and none of our guys come close to that level of versatility. We were missing competitive tenacity last season and anyone on the roster that shows up with a little Alvarado in him, will get the minutes, skills notwithstanding.

I think Terry will play for the same reason. I think that both our transfers were brought in to provide the roster the same thing: a hard-nosed, attacking style. We need guys who will make things happen on both ends.

Who among the rest emerges with the minutes will depend on the players. I tend to think that Sturdivant and Howard were supposed to emerge and become productive players LAST season, and neither did a very good job, IMO. Howard doesn't have a lot of competition at the moment but that is not true of Sturdivant. If Kyle wants to keep his minutes, he will have to be far, FAR more productive on both sides of the floor. Being good at "not making mistakes" is not enough. But, I honestly expect another player to supplant him, whether that be with Deivon Smith, Miles Kelly or even Tristan Maxwell (who in his few glimpses did show some Moxie). We need Moxie. Bad.

I am looking for Miles Kelly to emerge as a +ACC starter this year. I think we have enough coverage on the wing to get production from the 2 & 3 spots. If Franklin stays healthy, we are probably okay at the 4. That leaves becoming adequate in weakside post defense (lightyears away from adequacy based on last year) and assertive, creative, productive play from the PG spot. Those are the two BIG questions.

For this season to be any good, we need to shed the persona of last year's squad like a snake sheds it's skin. We need our guys to channel their inner Alvarado so that we have 5 guys on the floor who are all really getting after it. We'll need to see multiple players make substantial jumps in production to get back to >.500 in the ACC. I don't care who does it so long as multiple players do that.
Well said.The two new guys ,Frankln and Terry , are our biggest hopes for a new skill set and as you say- moxie.(The PGs and wings need another yr to develop/mature .) If they don't excel the lack of depth/ talent on basically a small frontline will kill us. .Moore, Franklin and Howard is not a frontcourt to scare the ACC on off or def at this point..We needed to get a new 6-10 big man to develop this yr and JP didn't get hum. Probably trouble ahead.
 

MtnWasp

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
733
Some thoughts about the 4-spot: Franklin's film shows a guy who wants to get the ball down low. He is a threat down there. This will be a change from Jordan Usher, who was really a 3 in the Duane Ferrell mold. Even when Usher scored in the paint, it was after he swooped in from the perimeter.

Franklin, on the other hand, likes to work closer to the basket. Once he has the ball down low, he is a problem because he has enough quicks, bounce and strength to go right to the rim. The fine point of the matter is that if he gets the ball in the paint, he will command a double team. That is a big deal because by moving the defense, that will open space for shooters.

Howard did not command double teams and that meant the defense could stay with the perimeter shooters and the cutting Usher or just sag on Devoe. This is one of the reasons why our offense stagnated so badly last season.

Franklin has the potential to give us a post threat that can move the defense. The issue then is that it will be Howard's man that sags down on Franklin when he has the ball. What then will Howard do? Can he develop some shooting ability or the wherewithall to cut hard to the hoop for a dunk? I'm skeptical.

Will we be forced to go small or will be commit to languish, or what? watching the Martynov situation closely.
 

glandon1960

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
174
While I agree wit most comments on the individuals - what I am most anxious to see is what CJP is going to run offensively. The comments in other posts that we're ditching the 5 at the elbow being a distributor - is greatly needed (Howard/Meka are no Ben Lammers with the ball out there). What will the new scheme be? How long to adjust/fine tune it? That as much as anything to me will determine who plays how much and how effectively this team can score. If the team can be above average in the ACC offensively, I don't doubt CJP will defensively have them at least middle of the pack defensively (probably higher) -with the glaring hole we had last year of lack of size vs some opponents.
 

SecretAgentBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
784
Location
ends of the earth
While I agree wit most comments on the individuals - what I am most anxious to see is what CJP is going to run offensively. The comments in other posts that we're ditching the 5 at the elbow being a distributor - is greatly needed (Howard/Meka are no Ben Lammers with the ball out there). What will the new scheme be? How long to adjust/fine tune it? That as much as anything to me will determine who plays how much and how effectively this team can score. If the team can be above average in the ACC offensively, I don't doubt CJP will defensively have them at least middle of the pack defensively (probably higher) -with the glaring hole we had last year of lack of size vs some opponents.
No doubt. A good offensive scheme could make or break the season. It will be interesting to see what the coaches come up with.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,167
This year's roster is not the get old/stay old strategy CJP has wanted and is a clear transition year with a lot of question marks that will have to show significant improvements this year for us to get a sniff of top half of the ACC. While pretty consistent with others, I look at this roster in 3 groups

PG - Sturdivant and Smith. Sturdivant likely starts, Smith has a higher upside. But one will almost certainly be on the court at all times.

Wings - (2 & 3 interchangeable) - Kelly and Coleman likely starters. Terry and Maxwell have every chance to step up here.

Bigs (4&5) - Howard and Franklin likely start. Meka and Moore as subs who were not ready last year. I would also put Coleman here as a possible 4 depending on sets/foul trouble.

The key now will be as mentioned above, how does CJP structure the offensive sets for this group? We have a 5 who is not offensively focused and a 4 who is athletic but not a "stretch" 4 and needs the ball 18 feet or in. On the surface it is arguably an old school type of 4/5 roster so we will likely be more of a 3 out system than a 4 out. We tried to run a 4 out with Moore last year and he didn't occupy anyone so we had an extra defender in the paint.

The corollary is that when either Howard or Franklin sit, are either Meka or Moore ready for prime time or do we go to a true 4 out system? Not having seen Meka or Moore this year, my initial expectation is we go to a 4 out and slide Coleman down to a 4 spot on the defensive end. We will see but I am very curious to see what sets CJP wants to run.

On defense, without significant improvement we know Howard is not a James Banks type of rim protector. But also last year we had multiple games where our perimeter defense was not good and it didn't matter if we had Banks or Bill Russel at the 5. I hope that Coleman has indeed lost some weight (quicker) and the others have matured to a more physical level and our perimeter D improves. If so we can play man primarily. Without that improvement we may be forced to play zone primarily.

We have a ton of unanswered questions at this point. We need a lot of them to fall positive - not just one or two. I am looking forward to seeing how this group does and how CJP coaches them.
 

MtnWasp

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
733
The idea of scheme is to put guys in position to exploit what they do best and minimize the impact of their weaknesses. There is a limit to this, however. At the end of the day you need guys who can physically match-up and also you need guys with some skills. If you have guys on the floor who can't shoot, that is a problem regardless of scheme.

I see some suggestions that Howard is not well suited to play the Princeton set because he can't shoot. Fair enough. But Howard actually seemed most comfortable with the ball at the elbow. He doesn't seem comfortable establishing position in the paint with his back to the basket. he doesn't look like a threat from there, either. So, what scheme is good for him?

Then we tried to play with both Howard and Khalid Moore on the floor at the same time. That didn't work at all. Defenses could leave two guys un-guarded and put five defenders on Devoe and Usher.

Howard had a few games where he looked good on offense. But to call him inconsistent would be an understatement. But the real problem here is on defense. We were playing three point shooters tight (and we were successful in keeping three ponnt percentage low), but that left our perimeter defenders vulnerable to getting beat off the dribble. In the past, that had been okay because we hand Lammers and then Banks on the backside to make it hard for penetrators to finish around the rim.

One of the big reasons the team struggled last year was because of how poor we were on weakside rotations. When our guys got beat by dribble penetration, the paint was left wide-open. Where Banks and, especially, Lammers were able to react quickly to dribble penetration, last year we did not.

We had Devoe and Usher back last and each produced about what was expected. So why did we go from 4th place ACC team to next to last? The easy answer is to say because we lost Alvarado and Wright, but that doesn't really answer the question because how a team performs is the result of the guys who are playing on the floor. The team went from being ranked 44th in the country in offensive efficiency to one ranked around 277. That is a huge drop. What happened?

This is going to be harsh, but there were, besides Devoe and Usher, three other guys who were going to need to step-up last year for the team to perform okay:

1. On one level, it was unfair to expect Howard to be a key guy because his development had not progressed very far. Ideally, he would not have been expected to fill such an important role so soon as a project player. But that was the reality. He got off to a slow start but then started to show life on the offensive end. Then he hurt his ankle, missed time and when he came back, he was non-productive for several games. On defense, he showed no particular acumen on the boards or as a shot blocker and his weak-side rotations were pretty much non-existent for the entire year. The coach can't scheme around this. Big guys develop slow, so maybe he will be better.

2. Deebo Coleman was a top 50 recruit and was a big strong kid who could shoot. It may not be fair to have to count on a true Freshman but that was the reality last season. But Coleman was far too passive to be a key cog. His cuts were lazy, he mostly liked to sit on the wing or just swing the ball around the perimeter. His most promising moments were when he bulled his way into the paint, but I could count on one hand the number of times I saw him do that. For a 210 lbs player, his rebounding numbers were horrid. His defense was uninspired. We needed him to be a productive player as a Freshman and he was not.

3. Kyle Sturdivant was well groomed to fill a big role on the team. He got lots of key minutes on the Championship team and had the time in the program and the minutes and shot a decent percentage so, one would have expected that he would have been in line to pick-up his production. But he seemed content to be solid. I don't know if his approach to the game was ordered by the staff or if it was just his predisposition. Either way, he came up far short of the numbers that would have been necessary for last year's team to be decent. He didn't shoot enough, score enough, drive enough create and dish enough, shoot enough free throws, rebound enough, deflect enough passes or make enough steals. All of that was deficient. He was content to safely get the ball up the court and then lope through his cuts and just get the ball to Devoe and watch Devoe take on the entire defense. He flashed but then would disappear for 10 minutes. No Bueno.

And this was the story of the team. Too many guys going through the motions, content to be the guy who did not make mistakes, who did not miss the shot, who would not leave his mark to rotate on defense; and not enough guys aggressively hunting opportunities to impact the game. Were thy coached to play it safe or were they passive players?
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,750
Hey @MtnWasp --
  • Why the regression from title to cellar in one year?
    • We had a weird covid year, and we were still wondering if Moses or Jose might want another bite at an NCAA run. We had some shots at transfers, but I think we lost some of those opportunities waiting to see if one of them would come back
    • We had 4 scorers two seasons ago (17, 15, 15, 11 ppg), and largely regressed to two scorers (18, 15 ppg) last season.
    • Bubba was a big hope to step up last season but was out for the year.
    • We obviously planned for either Howard or Saba to be a high-post threat and one focus for the offense. That didn't work out, and we saw that problem after a game or two. That should have been seen sooner :(
    • In 20-21, we played our 4 (Moses) at 5. In 21-22, we played our 3 (Usher) at 4, and didn't fill in the 3 or the 5 enough.
    • We probably should have bit the bullet for offensive changes last year instead of this year.
  • I mostly agree with your post.
 

gdamian

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
The idea of scheme is to put guys in position to exploit what they do best and minimize the impact of their weaknesses. There is a limit to this, however. At the end of the day you need guys who can physically match-up and also you need guys with some skills. If you have guys on the floor who can't shoot, that is a problem regardless of scheme.

I see some suggestions that Howard is not well suited to play the Princeton set because he can't shoot. Fair enough. But Howard actually seemed most comfortable with the ball at the elbow. He doesn't seem comfortable establishing position in the paint with his back to the basket. he doesn't look like a threat from there, either. So, what scheme is good for him?

Then we tried to play with both Howard and Khalid Moore on the floor at the same time. That didn't work at all. Defenses could leave two guys un-guarded and put five defenders on Devoe and Usher.

Howard had a few games where he looked good on offense. But to call him inconsistent would be an understatement. But the real problem here is on defense. We were playing three point shooters tight (and we were successful in keeping three ponnt percentage low), but that left our perimeter defenders vulnerable to getting beat off the dribble. In the past, that had been okay because we hand Lammers and then Banks on the backside to make it hard for penetrators to finish around the rim.

One of the big reasons the team struggled last year was because of how poor we were on weakside rotations. When our guys got beat by dribble penetration, the paint was left wide-open. Where Banks and, especially, Lammers were able to react quickly to dribble penetration, last year we did not.

We had Devoe and Usher back last and each produced about what was expected. So why did we go from 4th place ACC team to next to last? The easy answer is to say because we lost Alvarado and Wright, but that doesn't really answer the question because how a team performs is the result of the guys who are playing on the floor. The team went from being ranked 44th in the country in offensive efficiency to one ranked around 277. That is a huge drop. What happened?

This is going to be harsh, but there were, besides Devoe and Usher, three other guys who were going to need to step-up last year for the team to perform okay:

1. On one level, it was unfair to expect Howard to be a key guy because his development had not progressed very far. Ideally, he would not have been expected to fill such an important role so soon as a project player. But that was the reality. He got off to a slow start but then started to show life on the offensive end. Then he hurt his ankle, missed time and when he came back, he was non-productive for several games. On defense, he showed no particular acumen on the boards or as a shot blocker and his weak-side rotations were pretty much non-existent for the entire year. The coach can't scheme around this. Big guys develop slow, so maybe he will be better.

2. Deebo Coleman was a top 50 recruit and was a big strong kid who could shoot. It may not be fair to have to count on a true Freshman but that was the reality last season. But Coleman was far too passive to be a key cog. His cuts were lazy, he mostly liked to sit on the wing or just swing the ball around the perimeter. His most promising moments were when he bulled his way into the paint, but I could count on one hand the number of times I saw him do that. For a 210 lbs player, his rebounding numbers were horrid. His defense was uninspired. We needed him to be a productive player as a Freshman and he was not.

3. Kyle Sturdivant was well groomed to fill a big role on the team. He got lots of key minutes on the Championship team and had the time in the program and the minutes and shot a decent percentage so, one would have expected that he would have been in line to pick-up his production. But he seemed content to be solid. I don't know if his approach to the game was ordered by the staff or if it was just his predisposition. Either way, he came up far short of the numbers that would have been necessary for last year's team to be decent. He didn't shoot enough, score enough, drive enough create and dish enough, shoot enough free throws, rebound enough, deflect enough passes or make enough steals. All of that was deficient. He was content to safely get the ball up the court and then lope through his cuts and just get the ball to Devoe and watch Devoe take on the entire defense. He flashed but then would disappear for 10 minutes. No Bueno.

And this was the story of the team. Too many guys going through the motions, content to be the guy who did not make mistakes, who did not miss the shot, who would not leave his mark to rotate on defense; and not enough guys aggressively hunting opportunities to impact the game. Were thy coached to play it safe or were they passive players?
I think you said it well. Without a personality change I think this team could crumble if things don't go their way early given the unproven nature of this group. I think a plausible scenario would be for the collapse to play out. The team loses to a few teams in embarrassing fashion and then we'll see who really wants to play. And in typical fashion the team will make a late run to give everyone hope again for next year.
 

gameface

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
303
I think you said it well. Without a personality change I think this team could crumble if things don't go their way early given the unproven nature of this group. I think a plausible scenario would be for the collapse to play out. The team loses to a few teams in embarrassing fashion and then we'll see who really wants to play. And in typical fashion the team will make a late run to give everyone hope again for next year.
I believe this team will have some tough times in the beginning as they adjust to new schemes and new players. But to suggest they will crumble is too harsh. The returning players have enough grit and determination to compose themselves and play through the trouble spots. We will have more guards and I am hopeful CJP will play more of a style that he played his last few years at Memphis which at times was a three guard, SF, C scheme.
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
354
The key now will be as mentioned above, how does CJP structure the offensive sets for this group? We have a 5 who is not offensively focused and a 4 who is athletic but not a "stretch" 4 and needs the ball 18 feet or in. On the surface it is arguably an old school type of 4/5 roster so we will likely be more of a 3 out system than a 4 out. We tried to run a 4 out with Moore last year and he didn't occupy anyone so we had an extra defender in the paint.
This is the fascinating question. Because almost no one runs 3-out / 2-in offense anywhere on planet earth anymore. Sure, there are a select few examples (e.g. UNC sometimes), but they tend to be the select few who can hand-pick the best interior *scoring* bigs and can get more than just 1 of them at a time.

That said, it's not like Pastner is facing a unique situation here. A majority of coaches now in similar situations for several years (at least). Need guys that can play outside on offense, but defend the paint/rim on defense. Can afford to have 1 big who is stiff on offense but effective on the boards and defensively in the paint at the rim. Cannot afford 2 big offensive stiffs no matter how good they are on the defensive end or the boards. Better to go with a 4th player who is undersized on the defensive end and can contribute from the perimeter on the offensive end. Pastner's hybrid zone helps with smaller defensive lineups, but that 1 offensively stiff big man better be a plus (not just average) defender and rebounder. We saw that with Lammers, Banks, and even Moses at the 5 defensively and on the boards. Not so much with Howard last year.

I can't wait to see what Pastner does offensively. Will it continue to be 95% read-based continuity? If so, will it still be pure Princeton, or something new? 4-out? 5-out? Will there be more called set plays instead? Will there be a more diverse mix of continuity and sets?
 
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