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Las Vegas Mass Casualty Attack
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<blockquote data-quote="RonJohn" data-source="post: 349640" data-attributes="member: 2426"><p>I have fired a .308 many times with a suppressor.(Legal of course) It was on a bolt action rifle with hand loaded rounds loaded one at a time. Nothing was in the magazine. I never fired more than about 40 round while target shooting, and usually had at least a minute between rounds as I was getting them out of the box and loading them into the chamber. Therefore, I can't make a definitive comment about heat in the suppressor causing a malfunction. However, the suppressor is a lot like a car muffler. It has chambers inside that allow the muzzle gas to expand little by little instead of in one large explosion at the end of the barrel. The holes in the baffles are larger than the bullet. The suppressor would have to warp enough for the bullet to hit the baffles to cause a problem. As to people not know what was happening if he had used a suppressor, a normal .308 ammo leaves the muzzle at 2600fps. Normal .223 ammo leave the muzzle at about 3200fps. The bullet travelling through the air is at least as loud as a .22 long rifle without a suppressor. I have read articles supporting suppressors that stated that the sound is only lowered by 30dB. If you count the bullet sound, that might be correct. However, I have fired the .308 into a hill from about 5 feet. It sounded like someone triggering an industrial air hose nozzle. I stood downrange while someone else fired a similar gun. It sounded like the gun was fired in the middle of the range, not from where the gun was fired. My take: If he had used a suppressor, everyone would have still known what was going on and would have tried to escape exactly as they did attempt. It would have been more difficult to isolate where the shooter was from the sound if you were on the ground. For someone in the hotel, it would have still sounded like the gun was being fired from the hotel room.</p><p></p><p>I was working a 26 hour shift Sunday evening, and haven't really caught up yet. I haven't had time to read much about the incident. I do however agree with you that if he: Had used a bolt action rifle with good optics and was competent with the rifle, he could have killed many more. In a crowd like that, if he had used pipes, diesel fuel, and ammonium nitrate, he could have killed and injured more people. It appears from what I have seen that he picked a large crowd and just randomly fired into it. </p><p></p><p>I don't understand what would make someone just decide to hurt random people. That includes terrorists who do it for some political or religious reasons. Hurting random people isn't going to make any pain you have go away. It isn't going to gain support of your political or religious enemies. People are going to come to conclusions about why he did it, but I won't put much faith in any conclusions. Even if he left a manifesto somewhere, there is no guarantee that even he would be telling the truth about his reasons. I am resigned to believe that I will never know his reasoning.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RonJohn, post: 349640, member: 2426"] I have fired a .308 many times with a suppressor.(Legal of course) It was on a bolt action rifle with hand loaded rounds loaded one at a time. Nothing was in the magazine. I never fired more than about 40 round while target shooting, and usually had at least a minute between rounds as I was getting them out of the box and loading them into the chamber. Therefore, I can't make a definitive comment about heat in the suppressor causing a malfunction. However, the suppressor is a lot like a car muffler. It has chambers inside that allow the muzzle gas to expand little by little instead of in one large explosion at the end of the barrel. The holes in the baffles are larger than the bullet. The suppressor would have to warp enough for the bullet to hit the baffles to cause a problem. As to people not know what was happening if he had used a suppressor, a normal .308 ammo leaves the muzzle at 2600fps. Normal .223 ammo leave the muzzle at about 3200fps. The bullet travelling through the air is at least as loud as a .22 long rifle without a suppressor. I have read articles supporting suppressors that stated that the sound is only lowered by 30dB. If you count the bullet sound, that might be correct. However, I have fired the .308 into a hill from about 5 feet. It sounded like someone triggering an industrial air hose nozzle. I stood downrange while someone else fired a similar gun. It sounded like the gun was fired in the middle of the range, not from where the gun was fired. My take: If he had used a suppressor, everyone would have still known what was going on and would have tried to escape exactly as they did attempt. It would have been more difficult to isolate where the shooter was from the sound if you were on the ground. For someone in the hotel, it would have still sounded like the gun was being fired from the hotel room. I was working a 26 hour shift Sunday evening, and haven't really caught up yet. I haven't had time to read much about the incident. I do however agree with you that if he: Had used a bolt action rifle with good optics and was competent with the rifle, he could have killed many more. In a crowd like that, if he had used pipes, diesel fuel, and ammonium nitrate, he could have killed and injured more people. It appears from what I have seen that he picked a large crowd and just randomly fired into it. I don't understand what would make someone just decide to hurt random people. That includes terrorists who do it for some political or religious reasons. Hurting random people isn't going to make any pain you have go away. It isn't going to gain support of your political or religious enemies. People are going to come to conclusions about why he did it, but I won't put much faith in any conclusions. Even if he left a manifesto somewhere, there is no guarantee that even he would be telling the truth about his reasons. I am resigned to believe that I will never know his reasoning. [/QUOTE]
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