#Lamar@GT Monday night 7:30EST

slugboy

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,491
From ESPN: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401369890

Coleman is listed as a bench player, but he got more run than most of the starters, and the most points by far.

This is a super-weird looking box score to me. We were 48% from behind the arc, 45% shooting 2's, and ~54% shooting free throws. How often do you see that horrible a FT% with that good of a 3pt%?
How often do you see starters scoring 4 and 5, and your lead scorer coming off the bench?

I couldn't watch the game (ACCNX, ESPN, and AT&T seem to think it's the other guys job), but was the game as weird as it looks on the stat line?


STARTERSMINFG3PTFTOREBDREBREBASTSTLBLKTOPFPTS
K. Moore F202-61-30-0055000025
R. Howard C284-90-01-2358301239
J. Usher G326-161-52-44483104315
K. Sturdivant G171-31-31-2000100104
M. Devoe G364-92-41-20776101011
BENCHMINFG3PTFTOREBDREBREBASTSTLBLKTOPFPTS
J. Meka F50-10-00-0011000010
M. Kelly G103-41-20-0000100107
D. Coleman G306-85-72-30223100319
D. Smith G222-61-10-0022500135
TEAM28-6212-257-131230422231101575
45.2%48.0%53.8%
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,235
D-man44 said:
Ush has had at least 3 assists in every game too. I think tech can figure out that lineup more as the young guys progress
Click to expand...

Ush seems a bit off to start the season. He's had spurts where he looked like the Usher that closed out the last half of last season...dominant, but he's also had spurts where he looked like the "wild" Usher we saw when he first got here. I wonder if it's just being super amped up because now it's his senior year, and it's his and Devoe's team?

Either way, he needs to cut down on the turnovers. He's averaging 3.7 assists per game, BUT he's also averaging 3.7 turnovers a game. It's good that we're playing teams like Stetson and Lamar early so our guys can work out some things, but Usher will need to be the Usher we all know and love once we head into the tougher portion of our schedule and into conference play. Usher and Devoe will need to be our constants every night if we're going to make another run in the ACC.
 

ramblineck

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
150
Techster said:
Ush seems a bit off to start the season. He's had spurts where he looked like the Usher that closed out the last half of last season...dominant, but he's also had spurts where he looked like the "wild" Usher we saw when he first got here. I wonder if it's just being super amped up because now it's his senior year, and it's his and Devoe's team?

Either way, he needs to cut down on the turnovers. He's averaging 3.7 assists per game, BUT he's also averaging 3.7 turnovers a game. It's good that we're playing teams like Stetson and Lamar early so our guys can work out some things, but Usher will need to be the Usher we all know and love once we head into the tougher portion of our schedule and into conference play. Usher and Devoe will need to be our constants every night if we're going to make another run in the ACC.
Click to expand...
Ush and Devoe look like they're trying to do too much. Deebo will be the shooter we need and will take the pressure off those two. I think as per usual this team will get better as the season moves on. Im worried about the bigs and how we'll adjust to conference play. It's a long season so hope this goes much better than football!
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,260
I'll echo a lot of what has been said

No idea why Saba didn't play but Howard was absolutely gassed half way through the second half. He was way short on jump hooks and didn't even make the effort on several switches he should have made where they scored. CJP should have pulled him 3-5 min before he did. And we should have gone to the zone earlier. If Howard physically has a ceiling at 20 min then we need to play to that.

We cannot have a PG position that doesn't score - especially if we want to start K Moore. 6 ASST versus 2 TOs is good for those 2 but they need to be a scoring threat - or Devoe needs to be able to score against double teams routinely.

Deebo and Kelly showed this is a different team when shots are falling - especially 3 point shots. They score 21 in the first half and everyone has a bounce in their step. They score 5 in the second half and we have a tight sphincter trying to defend/survive our way through a lower opponent in the second half. Said it before but I expect Deebo in particular will be starting just to get his 3 point shot into the lineup. We are a better team with that shooting in the lineup as long as Deebo can defend.

One other thing though is we need to find ways to get out and run - look for easy baskets or 3 point shots for Devoe in transition. We have the guys who can run - and really seem to feed off of getting out and running. So we need to find ways to create turnovers or run off of rebounds. Second half last night was a real halfcourt slog on the offensive end.

End of the day though a win is a win. Beats the hang out of a loss.
 
Connell62

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,092
Peacone36 said:
Sturdy still the best pg option. We are going to need more consistent scoring as the season moves on.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree.. Kyle seems to be out of rhythm right now and Deivon slowly getting more and more minutes.

Bottom line though, we're not getting anywhere near the production we need from Smith or Sturdy, although Deivon had 5 assist against 1 turnover.

If Bubba where healthy, I feel like he would be starting at the PG spot. He cannot get back soon enough.
 

GT11

GT Athlete
Messages
345
YlJacket said:
I'll echo a lot of what has been said

No idea why Saba didn't play but Howard was absolutely gassed half way through the second half. He was way short on jump hooks and didn't even make the effort on several switches he should have made where they scored. CJP should have pulled him 3-5 min before he did. And we should have gone to the zone earlier. If Howard physically has a ceiling at 20 min then we need to play to that.

We cannot have a PG position that doesn't score - especially if we want to start K Moore. 6 ASST versus 2 TOs is good for those 2 but they need to be a scoring threat - or Devoe needs to be able to score against double teams routinely.

Deebo and Kelly showed this is a different team when shots are falling - especially 3 point shots. They score 21 in the first half and everyone has a bounce in their step. They score 5 in the second half and we have a tight sphincter trying to defend/survive our way through a lower opponent in the second half. Said it before but I expect Deebo in particular will be starting just to get his 3 point shot into the lineup. We are a better team with that shooting in the lineup as long as Deebo can defend.

One other thing though is we need to find ways to get out and run - look for easy baskets or 3 point shots for Devoe in transition. We have the guys who can run - and really seem to feed off of getting out and running. So we need to find ways to create turnovers or run off of rebounds. Second half last night was a real halfcourt slog on the offensive end.

End of the day though a win is a win. Beats the hang out of a loss.
Click to expand...
Howard was hurt. Trainer was working on him when he was out
 

gt24

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
354
Techster said:
Ush seems a bit off to start the season. He's had spurts where he looked like the Usher that closed out the last half of last season...dominant, but he's also had spurts where he looked like the "wild" Usher we saw when he first got here. I wonder if it's just being super amped up because now it's his senior year, and it's his and Devoe's team?

Either way, he needs to cut down on the turnovers. He's averaging 3.7 assists per game, BUT he's also averaging 3.7 turnovers a game. It's good that we're playing teams like Stetson and Lamar early so our guys can work out some things, but Usher will need to be the Usher we all know and love once we head into the tougher portion of our schedule and into conference play. Usher and Devoe will need to be our constants every night if we're going to make another run in the ACC.
Click to expand...
hesitated to post this thought during the offseason, and again after MOH and stetson. hesitated again last night. this is not at all a criticism. some players are ideal, explosive, dangerous, valuable, crucial, and PERFECT as a 4th scorer/threat. it fits their personality, their skill set, their "fit" in a particular system, etc. (in fact, imo great teams need guys exactly like this. can't have a roster of all 1s and 2s fighting for shots.) but when you ask/expect some guys to move up to a #2 role, it does not "fit" the aforementioned combo. it's not a criticism of their abilities or mentality or "toughness." it has nothing to do with any of that. it has to do with "fit" and roles in a 5-player team sport and more. just when a guy figures out how to be an electric and massively important crucial piece in a team system as 4th option, that does not mean he is ready to move up to #2 a few months later when a couple guys ahead of him graduate. big big difference between moving fro 4 to 3 than 4 to 2. huge difference. i believe this is especially true for players who are already upperclassmen. if it were a younger player there is an increased possibility of making that leap.

could be wrong, but just a hunch.
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,235
GT11 said:
Howard was hurt. Trainer was working on him when he was out
Click to expand...

One of my best friends is a huge UGA basketball fan and was student manager for them in the early 2000's. He's still pretty plugged into the basketball program.

He sent me a text last night saying how shocked he was of Howard's transformation. Apparently Crean and his staff was more than happy Howard left the program because they didn't think he would develop into a P5 level player. They considered him "soft", slow, and not very coordinated...all they wanted from Howard was to eat space, alter shots with his size, and grab rebounds. They were very down on his prospects to even do those things.

Howard has totally remade his body since he's transferred in, looks a lot quicker and more explosive, and his skillset is light years ahead of where he was at UGA. He thinks Crean would kill to have this version of Howard on his team right now.

That speaks volumes of Reveno and our staff that they can take a player that another staff pretty much gave up on, and develop him into a player that can potentially post a double/double each game.
 

GT11

GT Athlete
Messages
345
Techster said:
One of my best friends is a huge UGA basketball fan and was student manager for them in the early 2000's. He's still pretty plugged into the basketball program.

He sent me a text last night saying how shocked he was of Howard's transformation. Apparently Crean and his staff was more than happy Howard left the program because they didn't think he would develop into a P5 level player. They considered him "soft", slow, and not very coordinated...all they wanted from Howard was to eat space, alter shots with his size, and grab rebounds. They were very down on his prospects to even do those things.

Howard has totally remade his body since he's transferred in, looks a lot quicker and more explosive, and his skillset is light years ahead of where he was at UGA. He thinks Crean would kill to have this version of Howard on his team right now.

That speaks volumes of Reveno and our staff that they can take a player that another staff pretty much gave up on, and develop him into a player that can potentially post a double/double each game.
Click to expand...
Rev is THE MAN when it comes to working with bigs. If I was a BIG this is where I’d want to be
 
tsrich

tsrich

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
787
Why didn't Kelly get more minutes? He seemed effective when in. Is he not up to speed on the defensive end yet?
 
D-man44

D-man44

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,805
tsrich said:
Why didn't Kelly get more minutes? He seemed effective when in. Is he not up to speed on the defensive end yet?
Click to expand...
Funny you say this. Ik way to early to be looking too close to advanced numbers but they say Devoe and Deebo are clearly the best players (and they are very good) but the only other positive is Kelly. He has had some lapses on defense and that really gets under CJP skin but he is probably going to need to play more.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,580
tsrich said:
Why didn't Kelly get more minutes? He seemed effective when in. Is he not up to speed on the defensive end yet?
Click to expand...

I think the issue with Kelly this year is going to be he's basically filling the same role as our best player (Devoe) and a player who is playing better now that also looks more physically ready for the ACC (Coleman). So while he may be effective when he is in there if he is less effective than Mike or Deebo then playing him can't come at the cost of sitting them unless they need to come out for other reasons (for example if they need a rest). In terms of him getting time alongside those two it then comes down to which position do you give up. If it's the PG spot then you basically have Mike as your PG alongside two freshmen in the back court. Now could that work? Sure, but I think Pastner wants more ball handling than that line up gives. If you replace Ush at the 4 then you have an even more undersized 4 and you're sitting Ush which is probably not a good trade anyways. If you go super small and push Ush to the 5 spot then you have a super undersized 5 and then also an undersized 4 as well because Ush is no longer there.

I just don't see a lot of room for minutes for him this year unless he shows out so much that it balances out one of the other tradeoffs. I think once Bubba is back we may see more of a lineup with both him and Mike without Smith or Sturdivant to try and get another shooter on the court without sacrificing ball handling but I don't think we do it often with Kelly. So that leaves the minutes behind Devoe and Deebo and while that could still be 20+ we also have Bubba and Moore fighting for those minutes and while Kelly looks like the bigger offensive threat than those two they each bring things, ball handling and defense, that I think Kelly doesn't.

This year I think Kelly will be a situational type guy where if we are lacking offense we can try putting him in as a spark plug, especially if Deebo is having an off game. But I also think sometime we will need to Moore a good bit to try and lock down the opposing teams best player if it's a wing type.
 
jbix80

jbix80

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
961
lv20gt said:
I think the issue with Kelly this year is going to be he's basically filling the same role as our best player (Devoe) and a player who is playing better now that also looks more physically ready for the ACC (Coleman). So while he may be effective when he is in there if he is less effective than Mike or Deebo then playing him can't come at the cost of sitting them unless they need to come out for other reasons (for example if they need a rest). In terms of him getting time alongside those two it then comes down to which position do you give up. If it's the PG spot then you basically have Mike as your PG alongside two freshmen in the back court. Now could that work? Sure, but I think Pastner wants more ball handling than that line up gives. If you replace Ush at the 4 then you have an even more undersized 4 and you're sitting Ush which is probably not a good trade anyways. If you go super small and push Ush to the 5 spot then you have a super undersized 5 and then also an undersized 4 as well because Ush is no longer there.

I just don't see a lot of room for minutes for him this year unless he shows out so much that it balances out one of the other tradeoffs. I think once Bubba is back we may see more of a lineup with both him and Mike without Smith or Sturdivant to try and get another shooter on the court without sacrificing ball handling but I don't think we do it often with Kelly. So that leaves the minutes behind Devoe and Deebo and while that could still be 20+ we also have Bubba and Moore fighting for those minutes and while Kelly looks like the bigger offensive threat than those two they each bring things, ball handling and defense, that I think Kelly doesn't.

This year I think Kelly will be a situational type guy where if we are lacking offense we can try putting him in as a spark plug, especially if Deebo is having an off game. But I also think sometime we will need to Moore a good bit to try and lock down the opposing teams best player if it's a wing type.
Click to expand...
I agree. I think he just has too many guys in front of him. I did like that lineup with Devoe at point and the two freshmen on the wings. That is nice size and three great shooters. I think he’ll play more as the season goes along, especially if he continues to take advantage of the minutes he gets.
 
Connell62

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,092
jbix80 said:
I agree. I think he just has too many guys in front of him. I did like that lineup with Devoe at point and the two freshmen on the wings. That is nice size and three great shooters. I think he’ll play more as the season goes along, especially if he continues to take advantage of the minutes he gets.
Click to expand...
I suspect that when / if we have trouble scoring, you will see this line-up.
 
Top