lack of passing game

[croberts]

So how has our recruiting gone since our 2009 ACC championship and Orange Bowl appearance? So-so. Why? The school's tough and the offense is not attractive. The limited cirriculum and administrative indifference to football success are big enough hurdles, and the CPJ offense has turned out to be another one. Cheese, I had CPJ at the top of my list when Chan was let go, but I was wrong. CPJ's offense doesn't compensate for our recruiting issues, it adds one more.

How has our recruiting gone since our 1990 national championship? Looks the same to me. . Just dont see how CPJs offense has held us back to what we have already been.

 

[daBuzz]

I guess you missed the "when clicking" part.

Umm, you could pretty much say that about most decent offenses then. "Boy, when we're clicking, we pretty much can't be stopped".
The point I was making is that our most effective and winningest offense ran up against a superior defense and was manhandled that day. IIRC, I think we scored 14 points that day and half of that came from a Tarrant interception return for a TD.

 

[croberts]

Personally, I think that's a very reasonable assertion. I will say however, that an additional reason it isn't run often is that the wide-open, passing offenses have a "sexier" appeal to recruits and it makes it an easier sell. Note that I didn't say that necessarily makes them more effective; but I do believe it makes it an easier sell when the perception is that you pass the ball more than 12 times per game.

I think it is an easier sell to receivers and possibly OL prospects that are Devine size. On the other hand, it is great for 5' 10" Qbs that run 4.2 40 yard dash and OLs that squat 600lbs and bench 450 but are 6' 2" . Like my chances.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Umm, you could pretty much say that about most decent offenses then. "Boy, when we're clicking, we pretty much can't be stopped".
The point I was making is that our most effective and winningest offense ran up against a superior defense and was manhandled that day. IIRC, I think we scored 14 points that day and half of that came from a Tarrant interception return for a TD.

Very rarely do you come across a defense as talented as that '09 Iowa team. Most of the the "good" defenses we play have a couple of studs you really have to account for and our O allows you to "option" them off. The trick is having the right qb. You need a guy who can read defenses with very few mistakes, run the offense quickly and decisively and have enough athleticism to make the qb keeper and pass a real threat. We haven't had that guy, yet. Even Nesbitt wasn't that guy, but he had enough talent surrounding him to make up for his deficiencies.

Oh, and you can't have an OL with a glaring weak link (think ROT) or just plain ol' decimated by injury.

 

[daBuzz]

I think it is an easier sell to receivers and possibly OL prospects that are Devine size. On the other hand, it is great for 5' 10" Qbs that run 4.2 40 yard dash and OLs that squat 600lbs and bench 450 but are 6' 2" . Like my chances.

Justin's fast but he isn't 4.2 in the 40.

 

[GTRX7]

Umm, you could pretty much say that about most decent offenses then. "Boy, when we're clicking, we pretty much can't be stopped".
The point I was making is that our most effective and winningest offense ran up against a superior defense and was manhandled that day. IIRC, I think we scored 14 points that day and half of that came from a Tarrant interception return for a TD.

Yes. I think that is the point. Contrary to the way some folks like to paint it, CPJ's offense is not a "gimmick," but is grounded in solid fundamental football principles that mean, when the team is executing, it is very effective. I don't think anyone here is arguing that it is necessarily "the best" or "only good" offense. Just that it is a solid, effective offense that has proven to consistently put up good offensive numbers (even with Tech's average talent).

In 1998, we went 10-2 with a the fridge and a Heisman contender QB and managed to only score 7 against FSU. Does that single instance prove that the 1998 offense simply did not work against a superior defense?

 

[bravejason]

The wide slot man is out in space....no one near him to block. Usually the DB covering him is head up and not very close. There is no advantage for him being on LOS or one yard back as far as a blocking advantage. Maybe you are not in tune with the alignment I am refering to.

This site linked to below has the formations that I thought were being referred to:
http://flexboneassociationacademy.com/2013/10/03/why-over-green-is-a-great-formation/

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

How has our recruiting gone since our 1990 national championship? Looks the same to me. . Just dont see how CPJs offense has held us back to what we have already been.

If you gave last year's players and last year's schedule to Bobby Ross with O'Leary as DC and Friedgen as OC, would they have been 7-6?

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Very rarely do you come across a defense as talented as that '09 Iowa team. Most of the the "good" defenses we play have a couple of studs you really have to account for and our O allows you to "option" them off. The trick is having the right qb. You need a guy who can read defenses with very few mistakes, run the offense quickly and decisively and have enough athleticism to make the qb keeper and pass a real threat. We haven't had that guy, yet. Even Nesbitt wasn't that guy, but he had enough talent surrounding him to make up for his deficiencies.

Oh, and you can't have an OL with a glaring weak link (think ROT) or just plain ol' decimated by injury.

The Buccaneers are one RCH from giving up on Adrian Claiborne.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

If you gave last year's players and last year's schedule to Bobby Ross with O'Leary as DC and Friedgen as OC, would they have been 7-6?

No. We would have been 10-3 or so. I'll provide some backup in a separate post.

 

[danny daniel]

This site linked to below has the formations that I thought were being referred to:
http://flexboneassociationacademy.com/2013/10/03/why-over-green-is-a-great-formation/

Good info. Thanks for digging this up. In the "over" formation there is, as you pointed out, a blocking advantage. This is a run formation. The "over green" formation which is a pass threat formation and more likely the one I was thinking of, will tip off run if the wide slot moves up to the LOS. Interesting exercise. Thanks.

 

[GTRX7]

If you gave last year's players and last year's schedule to Bobby Ross with O'Leary as DC and Friedgen as OC, would they have been 7-6?

I am honestly not sure if this is supposed to be rhetorical or what. Outside of the 1990 national championship year (which was amazing!), Ross went the following as a head coach:
1987: 2-9
1988: 3-8
1989: 7-4
1991: 8-5

That staff did a nice building job when they got there, but it isn't like Tech was terrible when they arrived. Curry was 20-11 in the three years before they got there (including 9-2-1 just two years prior), so it isn't like the program was in complete shambles. Given that they went 7-4 and 8-5 in the year before and after the NC, I would actually say it is not unreasonable to think the Ross/O'Leary/Friedgen staff would have gone 7-6 with last year's players and schedule. I certainly don't think they would have done worse, but I am not necessarily confident that they definitely would have done better either.

Outside of 1990, the Ross years don't really support that either the coaching or recruiting was substantially different than it is today. In fact, if we cut out the NC year for Ross and the Orange Bowl year for CPJ, there really isn't much difference at all.

 

[croberts]

Justin's fast but he isn't 4.2 in the 40.

You got me. Check out Bio info on scout. 4.21 and 4.25 back to back in Tuscaloosa at Alabama camp. The fastest of all campers during the recruiting year. Point is he came here due to our offense.

 

[Squints]

No. We would have been 10-3 or so. I'll provide some backup in a separate post.

There is absolutely no way to know one way or another. None.

It's a ridiculous question that adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[daBuzz]

You got me. Check out Bio info on scout. 4.21 and 4.25 back to back in Tuscaloosa at Alabama camp. The fastest of all campers during the recruiting year. Point is he came here due to our offense.

Bah. Hand timed 40's are never correct. Look, if he really runs a 4.2 40, he's faster than all but 2 previously timed NFL players. Again, he's fast. But if he's that fast, then Snoddy is running a 4.1 because in the race they ran, Broderick had him by a body length within the first 30 yards.

 

[alaguy]

Bah. Hand timed 40's are never correct. Look, if he really runs a 4.2 40, he's faster than all but 2 previously timed NFL players. Again, he's fast. But if he's that fast, then Snoddy is running a 4.1 because in the race they ran, Broderick had him by a body length within the first 30 yards.

yep, they just timed a guy from KSt at 4.26,the SECOND fastest time EVER at combine per espn.

 

[croberts]

Bah. Hand timed 40's are never correct. Look, if he really runs a 4.2 40, he's faster than all but 2 previously timed NFL players. Again, he's fast. But if he's that fast, then Snoddy is running a 4.1 because in the race they ran, Broderick had him by a body length within the first 30 yards.

Never said he went to the combine for electronic timing head to head with Bo Jackson. Said he was timed at A L A B A M A foottball camp by a fat 6 fingered line coach with a mouth full of red man. The best part is that the same fat guy timed everyone else slower!

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

The Buccaneers are one RCH from giving up on Adrian Claiborne.

Which of course means he was not a great college player. Whatever dude.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Bah. Hand timed 40's are never correct. Look, if he really runs a 4.2 40, he's faster than all but 2 previously timed NFL players. Again, he's fast. But if he's that fast, then Snoddy is running a 4.1 because in the race they ran, Broderick had him by a body length within the first 30 yards.

Totally off-topic (sort-of). If you watch the video of that race, Snoddy got off the line first and maintained the lead. The difference between those two was the start, not the foot speed. JT held with Snoddy until he turned if off. He couldn't overtake him, which was probably a first ever for JT in his life.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Hell...I just want to see them racing around end on a veer...they both have plenty of football speed. Now just go make plays.