lack of passing game

Ibeeballin

GT Athlete
Messages
5,151
T A&M was in the same boat last year. Horrible D but they could put up 50 pts per game and win by keeping the other O off the field. The D needs to step up, yes but so does the O, big time. 17-20 pts per game ain't gonna win many in today's game. Sometimes your best D is a good O.

Talking about that team that went 8-4 in the regular season and struggled against 2 of the better defenses in the country.

Also somebody define "gimmick offense" for me? Because if it is what I think is, then about 90% of FBS runs a gimmick offense.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
Talking about that team that went 8-4 in the regular season and struggled against 2 of the better defenses in the country.

Also somebody define "gimmick offense" for me? Because if it is what I think is, then about 90% of FBS runs a gimmick offense.

8-4 is better than 7-6 any day of the week. and put up 40-50 pts per game.

you are comparing T A&M to a team that went 7-6 and struggled against mediocre D's in the country
 

Sebastian GT

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
331
I just looked through the video, did not see a double tight end set except on the goal line when they were also running the Power-I. Goaline situations were not the topic, the passing game was. I saw him use that set at Southern when he was there and I have definitely seen us line a WR up at the TE spot on a goaline situation. As far as non-goaline situations I saw formations just like we run using the passing game, which was the topic of conversation.

Yes there are some similar formations but there is also stuff in there that we haven't seen at Tech. So I guess in your world it is not allowable to throw with a tight end or two on the field on the goal line? While they didn't throw it in those formations in the highlight video I would hope that there would have been pass plays that they could have run if they wanted to. As for the passing plays we did see in the video there are some differences. Namely the slants and what appear to be smaller line splits that allow for more effective pass blocking.

The bottom line is you can show all the videos of passing game highlights you want from 20 years ago and it doesn't mean crap. The only thing that matters is what is going on right now and his track record over the past 6 years at Tech. If Paul was capable of putting together an effective passing game for the way football is played today at the highest levels of division 1 then he would have already done it. IMO you need to be able to effectively throw the football at least 20 times per game and also be able to run an effective two minute drill throwing the football if you want to compete with the better teams in college football. We have looked like a little league team when it comes to throwing the football for the better part of 6 years. Is this the only problem we have? Hell no. The defense has been awful and so have special teams for the most part. The overall recruiting has been poor as well. Some think that is improving so we shall see if the results on the field prove that to be true. Many fans blame our antiquated offensive scheme for the lack of talent in the program because many of the higher rated players who have NFL aspirations don't want to play in our system.

All of this stuff has been beat to death on every Tech message board for several years. The buck stops with Paul on all of this. The defense has improved marginally under Roof which gives people hope but why are we on our third defensive coordinator in 6 years? I like Roof and hope he succeeds. I think he is a good recruiter and he loves Georgia Tech more than anyone on that staff. If Paul doesn't make it past this year I hope that Roof will be involved in some capacity with whoever takes over but in the end the results on the field belong to Paul. He could not have asked for an easier schedule for what will be his make or break season. As for his passing game this season being more dynamic or effective or whatever you want to call it I wouldn't count on it. Per an article by Matt Winkeljohn that I saw the other day there were several quotes from players saying we had shelved any shotgun or pistol formations and basically spent the entire spring running the option. Based on that and from what I saw of the line play in the spring game I find it hard to believe that our 5'9" QB will have much of a chance to throw the football when he has to start from under center everytime and the line splits and pass blocking scheme are in no way conducive to forming a pocket to throw from.
 

GTrob21

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,138
The vast majority of those vast majority have no business going to GT. High school kids are fickle, at least the vast majority are. How many of those same kids would change their tune at the drop of a hat if we won 10 - 12 games a year? Lemme guess.... a vast majority?

And here is why the "vast majority" of uga people think Tech people are arrogant *****s. There are inherent advantages of shaping the public opinion of you.

Nike does it, Coke does it, our government does it. You are right in saying High school students are fickle and that they swim together; realizing this tendency and creating a brand that actually capitalizes on that, is what makes your business, and in this case our football team successful.

I'm under the impression we want to win more than 7 games a year. I know this way of thinking makes no sense to you, but to continue down a path that puts you at a competitive disadvantage and giving you a mediocre record is crazy at best and suicidal at worst.

And I can't answer your question about how many of them would change their tune if we won 10-12 games a year. Let's hope Paul wins that many again, I personally don't think He will, but do hope I am wrong.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,675
And here is why the "vast majority" of uga people think Tech people are arrogant ******. There are inherent advantages of shaping the public opinion of you.

Nike does it, Coke does it, our government does it. You are right in saying High school students are fickle and that they swim together; realizing this tendency and creating a brand that actually capitalizes on that, is what makes your business, and in this case our football team successful.

I'm under the impression we want to win more than 7 games a year. I know this way of thinking makes no sense to you, but to continue down a path that puts you at a competitive disadvantage and giving you a mediocre record is crazy at best and suicidal at worst.

And I can't answer your question about how many of them would change their tune if we won 10-12 games a year. Let's hope Paul wins that many again, I personally don't think He will, but do hope I am wrong.
Are you suggesting we pick our offensive scheme as a marketing ploy to teenagers? That's what I get from your "shaping the public opinion" comment. Maybe you are just suggesting we are bad at marketing to teenagers and on that I'd agree. That still doesn't change the fact that GT, as a school, is not for the majority of high school students and that's not being arrogant, that's being honest. One must recognize this as fact before one can devise strategies that mitigate it's affect on recruiting.
 

GTRX7

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,439
Location
Atlanta
For what its worth, I know I looked up our passing stats near the end of last season in our best wins in the CPJ ear (i.e., UGA, FSU, Miami, Va Tech, Clemson). I can't find my post now, but I think we only even attempted more than 12 passes in one of those wins. If anything, our offense seems to win the biggest games against the best defenses when we pass less, not more.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
Are you suggesting we pick our offensive scheme as a marketing ploy to teenagers? That's what I get from your "shaping the public opinion" comment. Maybe you are just suggesting we are bad at marketing to teenagers and on that I'd agree. That still doesn't change the fact that GT, as a school, is not for the majority of high school students and that's not being arrogant, that's being honest. One must recognize this as fact before one can devise strategies that mitigate it's affect on recruiting.

why not? other teams do it... and are successful.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,518
And here is why the "vast majority" of uga people think Tech people are arrogant ******. There are inherent advantages of shaping the public opinion of you.

Nike does it, Coke does it, our government does it. You are right in saying High school students are fickle and that they swim together; realizing this tendency and creating a brand that actually capitalizes on that, is what makes your business, and in this case our football team successful.

I'm under the impression we want to win more than 7 games a year. I know this way of thinking makes no sense to you, but to continue down a path that puts you at a competitive disadvantage and giving you a mediocre record is crazy at best and suicidal at worst.

And I can't answer your question about how many of them would change their tune if we won 10-12 games a year. Let's hope Paul wins that many again, I personally don't think He will, but do hope I am wrong.

How many UG people run down their football to anyone who will listen? They don't, because they're too busy talking up their next national championship with the current team and staff. That is where they succeed in marketing.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
having a family member that was recently recruited, if you don't think the type of O you run has a part in it, you are nuts or in denial.
 

croberts

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
693
Jesus Eric, it doesn't matter how many times people explain the full reasons why we have averaged 7 wins lately. Some people refuse to accept that the offense has actually done pretty well 4 out of the 6 years we have run it. People refuse to look at the full reasons why our record has not been so great. Hell, I remember Alabama struggling vs LSU, only scoring 6 points, then scoring 21 later in the BCS championship. You don't see BAMA changing everything. There are 3 facets to this game, for those of you solely blaming our mediocre record on our offense you are not analyzing the full problem and blaming it on what is often the strength of the team (because it is not as fun to watch as a conventional offense).
I know I am not alone in loving to watch this offense. I see smiles on the faces of my friends as we go on a 9 minute drive up by 3 in the fourth. I also like knowing that the people we play hate to play us because of the offense.
 

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
325
For what its worth, I know I looked up our passing stats near the end of last season in our best wins in the CPJ ear (i.e., UGA, FSU, Miami, Va Tech, Clemson). I can't find my post now, but I think we only even attempted more than 12 passes in one of those wins. If anything, our offense seems to win the biggest games against the best defenses when we pass less, not more.

We beat UGA in 2008 completing 1 of 6 passes. We beat VT in 2009 completing 1 of 7. We beat FSU in 2008 going 4-6, and we beat FSU in 2009 going 4 for 8, but that game was an anomaly as neither team decided to actually play defense. Clemson #1 2009 we actually went 4-15 (and threw a first pass pick) but surprisingly threw 9-18 in the ACC championship game. Clemson in 2011 was another game where we only complete 4 of 11.

Problem is, only one of those wins have come after 2009. The good teams are selling out to stop the run, often getting tackles for loss and forcing the offense into situations (2nd and 3rd and long) it just isn't built for. When our only passing game is the deep passing game, you don't really have anything to burn the team that blitzes every play.
 

croberts

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
693
How many UG people run down their football to anyone who will listen? They don't, because they're too busy talking up their next national championship with the current team and staff. That is where they succeed in marketing.
The ones I know Looked quickly for someone to fall on the sword after we beat them three in a row and again after CPJs first year win. Seems we are more alike than we would like.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,518
The ones I know Looked quickly for someone to fall on the sword after we beat them three in a row and again after CPJs first year win. Seems we are more alike than we would like.

The UG fans I know weren't whining about the offense after getting beat in 2008. There's the difference.
 

GTRX7

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,439
Location
Atlanta
Again, I am not sure I see any discernible trend of teams being able to figure the offense out (except maybe Va Tech). We are certainly not winning, but how much of it is the offense vs. the team? Do we really need more passing than we had in 2008/2009? I think the biggest difference is that we need to win close games, which we seem to be doing at an alarmingly low rate over the last 3 years. A lot of that is on the D and special teams. Admittedly, a lot is on us not being able to have those long killer drives in the 4th quarter.

Offensive scoring against UGA (ppg):
2008: 45
2009: 24
2010: 34
2011: 17
2012: 10
2013: 34
(Ave: 27)

Offensive scoring against Clemson (ppg):
2008: 21
2009: 30, 39
2010: 13
2011: 31
2012: 31
2013: 31
(Ave: 28)

Offensive scoring against Va Tech (ppg):
2008: 17
2009: 28
2010: 21
2011: 26
2012: 17
2013: 10
(Ave: 19)

Offensive scoring against Miami (ppg):
2008: 41
2009: 17
2010: 10
2011: 7
2012: 36
2013: 30
(Ave: 23.5)
 

thwgjacket

Guest
Messages
969
Yes there are some similar formations but there is also stuff in there that we haven't seen at Tech. So I guess in your world it is not allowable to throw with a tight end or two on the field on the goal line? While they didn't throw it in those formations in the highlight video I would hope that there would have been pass plays that they could have run if they wanted to. As for the passing plays we did see in the video there are some differences. Namely the slants and what appear to be smaller line splits that allow for more effective pass blocking.

The bottom line is you can show all the videos of passing game highlights you want from 20 years ago and it doesn't mean crap. The only thing that matters is what is going on right now and his track record over the past 6 years at Tech. If Paul was capable of putting together an effective passing game for the way football is played today at the highest levels of division 1 then he would have already done it. IMO you need to be able to effectively throw the football at least 20 times per game and also be able to run an effective two minute drill throwing the football if you want to compete with the better teams in college football. We have looked like a little league team when it comes to throwing the football for the better part of 6 years. Is this the only problem we have? Hell no. The defense has been awful and so have special teams for the most part. The overall recruiting has been poor as well. Some think that is improving so we shall see if the results on the field prove that to be true. Many fans blame our antiquated offensive scheme for the lack of talent in the program because many of the higher rated players who have NFL aspirations don't want to play in our system.

All of this stuff has been beat to death on every Tech message board for several years. The buck stops with Paul on all of this. The defense has improved marginally under Roof which gives people hope but why are we on our third defensive coordinator in 6 years? I like Roof and hope he succeeds. I think he is a good recruiter and he loves Georgia Tech more than anyone on that staff. If Paul doesn't make it past this year I hope that Roof will be involved in some capacity with whoever takes over but in the end the results on the field belong to Paul. He could not have asked for an easier schedule for what will be his make or break season. As for his passing game this season being more dynamic or effective or whatever you want to call it I wouldn't count on it. Per an article by Matt Winkeljohn that I saw the other day there were several quotes from players saying we had shelved any shotgun or pistol formations and basically spent the entire spring running the option. Based on that and from what I saw of the line play in the spring game I find it hard to believe that our 5'9" QB will have much of a chance to throw the football when he has to start from under center every time and the line splits and pass blocking scheme are in no way conducive to forming a pocket to throw from.

The only thing I put out there were stats and a video that shows you can throw out of our formation and that CPJ has done it before. If you want to cling onto the fact that he lined up receivers at the TE spot on the goaline that's fine. I already pointed out that we have done that here at Tech. If something that happened 20 years ago doesn't mean crap then no one on this board should be able to throw 1990 out and say that shows that GT can be a great football program. I never said the passing game would be better this year or more dynamic. Though to be fair we completed a higher percentage of passes under center than in the pistol or shotgun last year, so you should be happy. We can run it every play and win plenty of games. The great thing about your opinion is that it does not matter. Auburn's starting QB averaged about 10 completions a game this year, they were ranked 107th in passing going into the Championship game. We didn't complete that many in 09 when we went to a BCS bowl. GT fans that blame the offense for recruiting problems are almost always alumni. GT is not a school that attracts top notch college football players on a consistent basis and they just don't want to admit it. We could be running the air raid and still would not be able to get the big time recruits on a consistent basis. Who is our 5'9 QB? No one listed at that height that plays QB for us.

As for D-Coordinators, the first of three we won the ACC Championship and went to a BCS bowl with. Groh was definitely a miss, no argument there. Everyone seems pretty happy with Roof. Really only one hire that I would call "bad."

Also, "every time" is two words not one. Fify
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,042
The bottom line for me is that this offense is seen by the vast majority of high school athletes, of which I work with, as gimmicky and behind the times.

I am a Tech fan, and will always be one, but we aren't doing ourselves any favors.

The day we start making decisions about our program based on what high school athletes are thinking is the the day I give up.


why not? other teams do it... and are successful.

You honestly think other teams base their offensive philosophy based on public opinion?!? What world do you live in?!?
 
Last edited:

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
The day we start making decisions about our program based on what high school athletes are thinking is the the day I give up.

So you're saying you don't think it matters what the players you're trying to recruit think? Not sure I understand the logic in that statement.
 
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