Justin Bryan

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
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Some guys are both fast and can play.
The real difference between "track speed" and "football speed" isn't really speed at all - it's deceleration. If Justin Gatlin is in football pads and on grass and running in a straight line, he will outrun Laskey or Snoddy or Chris Johnson every time. However, I doubt he'd be able to cut in the same way, because he's simply not used to slamming on the brakes and quickly changing directions.

Some guys with both football and elite track ability: Bob Hayes, Jeff Demps, Trindon Holliday. All are/were better at track but still had pretty good football ability
 

Supersizethatorder-mutt

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Some guys are both fast and can play.
The real difference between "track speed" and "football speed" isn't really speed at all - it's deceleration. If Justin Gatlin is in football pads and on grass and running in a straight line, he will outrun Laskey or Snoddy or Chris Johnson every time. However, I doubt he'd be able to cut in the same way, because he's simply not used to slamming on the brakes and quickly changing directions.

Some guys with both football and elite track ability: Bob Hayes, Jeff Demps, Trindon Holliday. All are/were better at track but still had pretty good football ability

Antonio McKay at Tech was no slouch either
 

thwgjacket

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You didn't get my sarcasm in the "oh wait" usage. I used incorrectly on purpose because it doesn't mean anything as in when you used it. Again, NFL scouts don't scout track meets. The last time they tried it, it was a huge embarrassment for the league, or should I say 49ers.


Believe me, scouts are gonna make sure a guy can play ball to go along with his speed. Combine 40 times are the "eye raiser" that perks their interest into digging deeper and that's only if it's some guy who's flown under the radar.
I never said they scout track meets. What I'm saying is that 40 times do matter. The only guys you ever here say "I have game speed" are guys that run slow 40 or 60 times and just can't accept they're not that fast. If you think NFL teams don't heavily weigh 40 times then IMO you're just wrong. If teams just looked at film then Heisman Trophy winners would always be picked in the 1st round. The late rounds of the draft are littered with guys who just have measurables like a great 40 time. Look at Jerick McKinnon from Southern, picked in the 3rd round and they have no idea what position he will play. Hell look at Stephen Hill. Almost no film on him and they took him in the 2nd in large part because of his 40 time at the combine. Chris Johnson's 40 time vaulted him into the 1st. The list goes on and on. To say that a 40 time carries no weight goes against what NFL scouts and GM's think. I think I'm going to have to go with guys who get paid to evaluate on this issue.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I never said they scout track meets. What I'm saying is that 40 times do matter. The only guys you ever here say "I have game speed" are guys that run slow 40 or 60 times and just can't accept they're not that fast. If you think NFL teams don't heavily weigh 40 times then IMO you're just wrong. If teams just looked at film then Heisman Trophy winners would always be picked in the 1st round. The late rounds of the draft are littered with guys who just have measurables like a great 40 time. Look at Jerick McKinnon from Southern, picked in the 3rd round and they have no idea what position he will play. Hell look at Stephen Hill. Almost no film on him and they took him in the 2nd in large part because of his 40 time at the combine. Chris Johnson's 40 time vaulted him into the 1st. The list goes on and on. To say that a 40 time carries no weight goes against what NFL scouts and GM's think. I think I'm going to have to go with guys who get paid to evaluate on this issue.
All I meant to say is that a fast 40 time doesn't mean a guy's a good football player. Stephen Hill, your example, is a perfect example of that. He may have been picked high, but I guarantee you the Jets are damn sorry they did it. The biggest thing that separates the elite 40 times is the start which is all training and has nothing whatsoever to do with football performance.
 

thwgjacket

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All I meant to say is that a fast 40 time doesn't mean a guy's a good football player. Stephen Hill, your example, is a perfect example of that. He may have been picked high, but I guarantee you the Jets are damn sorry they did it. The biggest thing that separates the elite 40 times is the start which is all training and has nothing whatsoever to do with football performance.
I agree that the start is a big part of it. I referenced that in the first post I made. However I disagree that a 40 can't be used to evaluate talent as a football player. If you do some outside of the box analysis like NFL teams do then it's rather easy to apply. For both OL and DL you are looking solely at the start and then the 10 yard split. Are they in a mirror image of the 3 point stance they will be in during a game? No, but it does show whether a guy can be explosive from a position with his hand on the ground. For skill players you're looking at explosiveness in the legs from a dead-stop position and then at stride length and top end speed. You need to see if a receiver has the top end speed to make a corner turn and run with him rather than allowing the corner to backpedal for a longer distance and making it easier for him to see the field.

It can also be used to judge athletic ability. Your more athletic guys tend to "float" when they run. They move smoothly and their head stays more still which allows for a less interrupted view of the surrounding playing field. I think you're looking at the 40 as a "is he fast" only measurable when in fact there are a lot of things that can be judged from it. As for the pads argument, I'm not sure how old you are or when you played, but pads today don't weigh much at all. Helmets weigh about 3 lbs and shoulder pads the same for position guys. Your average position guy in the NFL probably weighs about 200-210 lbs. So if you throw in a pound for the leg pads then all the pads still only add about 3.5% of body weight to a 200 lb player. That's nothing.
 

flea77

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Dee and Justin played on the same team when they were 13 u. Have been friends since. Our Honeschool team was the CSRA Crusaders. . There are several teams in the Atlanta Metro Area. Google Honeschool baseball Georgia.
 
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