JT and his throwing style...

[deeeznutz]

Off the laces. I saw it. I'm thinking it was more or a isolated incident. Sometimes the play moves so fast that you may be focused more on the receivers and their routes as opposed to hand placement on the ball. However, I concur this would cause most players the inability to throw a perfectly tight spiral.

Does anyone know what the result of that pass was? All the worrying about him sailing it or throwing a loose spiral...how did this pass look coming off his hand?

 

[Skeptic]

TBH, it shouldn't be necessary. The center aligns the ball a certain way when he snaps. If the QB cares, it can go into his hands the exact same way every time. If he wants the laces on his throwing hand, he can get it snapped that way. (from under center, of course)

You're right. Maybe what we are seeing is the ball in hand after the Thomas has been flushed and is on the move? (I cannot believe that Paul Johnson would have tolerated any of those sprints from the collapsed pocket, sometimes 20 yards deep, from any other QB at GT. Or for that matter, he had a QB who could do that stuff.)

 

[forensicbuzz]

Let me clarify a little for everyone (not that anyone's concerned), I'm not criticizing JT's style nor his ability to throw. I've been very happy with his progression and his accuracy (especially on the back shoulder passes down the sideline), but it just looked strange to me. I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding this pass, but a quick hitting slant would also explain the slightly open stance previously mentioned. I culled the photos from here.

 

[bke1984]

My observation was "off the laces." I've never heard or seen that before. I don't have large hands either, and if I can't grasp the laces, I can't hold the ball well. I find it amazing that someone (espcially without big ole woppers of mitts) can hold onto the ball, let along get enough to throw a good ball. That's why I asked the rest of you, cause it's something new to me.

...but he doesn't do it all the time. Does it just not matter? Anyone?

He's not really touching the laces in the second pic either. If you look closely his ring finger is barely touching it. As a fellow small handed human, I also have a tough time getting hands on the laces of a college or pro football. I'm able to throw it just fine though. I kind of just grab the ball down there at the end between the nose and where the laces start. My pinky and ring finger will barely touch them

 

[Skeptic]

He's not really touching the laces in the second pic either. If you look closely his ring finger is barely touching it. As a fellow small handed human, I also have a tough time getting hands on the laces of a college or pro football. I'm able to throw it just fine though. I kind of just grab the ball down there at the end between the nose and where the laces start. My pinky and ring finger will barely touch them

You are saying you are digitally challenged? Me too.

 

[GlennW]

I wonder how in the heck he led us to 11 wins and a #8 National Ranking, not to mention the HIGHEST OFEI RATING IN HISTORY http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff ?

 

[Skeptic]

I wonder how in the heck he led us to 11 wins and a #8 National Ranking, not to mention the HIGHEST OFEI RATING IN HISTORY http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff ?

From the front?

 

[ilovetheoption]

Let me clarify a little for everyone (not that anyone's concerned), I'm not criticizing JT's style nor his ability to throw. I've been very happy with his progression and his accuracy (especially on the back shoulder passes down the sideline), but it just looked strange to me. I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding this pass, but a quick hitting slant would also explain the slightly open stance previously mentioned. I culled the photos from here.

Of for sure, I don't think anybody thought you were criticizing, I understood what you meant, and it's an interesting question (especially when paired with the pic of him holding the laces)

 

[Skeptic]

Of for sure, I don't think anybody thought you were criticizing, I understood what you meant, and it's an interesting question (especially when paired with the pic of him holding the laces)

Second that. It is interesting and it has been an interesting discussion.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I just spoke with a uga fan, and in his opinion he thinks we have one of the best qbs in the nation, he also went on to say that we could play with any team in the country with the way we played in the Orange bowl. I love it when a uga fan says good things about GT.

 

[Skeptic]

I just spoke with a uga fan, and in his opinion he thinks we have one of the best qbs in the nation, he also went on to say that we could play with any team in the country with the way we played in the Orange bowl. I love it when a uga fan says good things about GT.

I am amazed that such sagacity and insight seeps out of Athens. He might have added Georgia, Clemson and FSU to his list, or for that matter, all of November. It's true that they remember what you do in November. I have my fingers crossed for '15, which is now, what? 52 days?

 

[RamblinCharger]

Johnny manziel doesn't use laces, but he has pretty large hands. Justin can do whatever he wants in my book. Just keep making people look stupid.

 

[iceeater1969]

All I know is JT is SUPER fast going from running down line like a pitch/ tuck and run to
decide to pass,
feet planted,
ball back and gone.


IMO
He says to himself i sense receiver breaking open and line backer crashing.
At that time repositioning the ball "laces up" is not a thought.
He is gifted.
This year. Swag = hammer down

Predict much more effective passing by JT and backup. (Possible outcomes of a pass verses a pitch = if receiver getting open pitch must be a sure 5 yds to not throw a 25 yd pass-:this year coach will green light the pass.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

I've often wondered why NFL draftee QB's are so often criticized for their throwing motions, since many draft picks have had first-class coaching at QB since they were in Pop Warner. The common consensus must be that "NFL coaches are just that much better" and demand a higher precision in a pocket passer, but college/HS football fans know better. Precision is striven for in all levels of the game. QB's seek development with their throwing motion from cradle to retirement, and certainly even HS coaches know in basic terms what an efficient throwing motion is and how to build one. Right?

It's like that old comedy routine about the professor from Harvard taking questions at a JC. Nah, I ain't gonna teach you that, you're not attending Harvard.

Do college coaches prefer QB's to "wing it" in their natural style? When a golfer re-works his swing there tend to be a couple of down years before the light comes on i.e. Tiger Woods in '98-99. Since the motto of college is to win now with what's available, maybe CFB programs consciously choose to work around a QB's throwing style rather than cause a 1 or 2-year slump to happen.

 

[Skeptic]

All I know is JT is SUPER fast going from running down line like a pitch/ tuck and run to
decide to pass,
feet planted,
ball back and gone.


IMO
He says to himself i sense receiver breaking open and line backer crashing.
At that time repositioning the ball "laces up" is not a thought.
He is gifted.
This year. Swag = hammer down

Predict much more effective passing by JT and backup. (Possible outcomes of a pass verses a pitch = if receiver getting open pitch must be a sure 5 yds to not throw a 25 yd pass-:this year coach will green light the pass.

Sometimes in our exuberance for the pass that we are talking about Paul Johnson, who has made his position as clear as possible, and that is he will do what he has to do to win, but everything starts with the run. Besides you are basically talking about the old sprint option, and Johnson has never -- to my admittedly limited following of him (Navy) -- used that. Fun to talk about, but things get serious in about three weeks.

 

[tech_wreck47]

All I know is JT is SUPER fast going from running down line like a pitch/ tuck and run to
decide to pass,
feet planted,
ball back and gone.


IMO
He says to himself i sense receiver breaking open and line backer crashing.
At that time repositioning the ball "laces up" is not a thought.
He is gifted.
This year. Swag = hammer down

Predict much more effective passing by JT and backup. (Possible outcomes of a pass verses a pitch = if receiver getting open pitch must be a sure 5 yds to not throw a 25 yd pass-:this year coach will green light the pass.

If he's dropping back to pass and he throws with the laces then his hands would have been on the laces at all times, even while making pitches. When a qb throws with the laces it's just second hand nature to find the laces as you get the ball, which if it's snapped right the laces should land in his hand, it's just natural and feels weird if you don't. Im not sure why he didn't have his hand on the laces in that pick, but then again I don't care lol

 

[Skeptic]

I've often wondered why NFL draftee QB's are so often criticized for their throwing motions, since many draft picks have had first-class coaching at QB since they were in Pop Warner. The common consensus must be that "NFL coaches are just that much better" and demand a higher precision in a pocket passer, but college/HS football fans know better. Precision is striven for in all levels of the game. QB's seek development with their throwing motion from cradle to retirement, and certainly even HS coaches know in basic terms what an efficient throwing motion is and how to build one. Right?

It's like that old comedy routine about the professor from Harvard taking questions at a JC. Nah, I ain't gonna teach you that, you're not attending Harvard.

Do college coaches prefer QB's to "wing it" in their natural style? When a golfer re-works his swing there tend to be a couple of down years before the light comes on i.e. Tiger Woods in '98-99. Since the motto of college is to win now with what's available, maybe CFB programs consciously choose to work around a QB's throwing style rather than cause a 1 or 2-year slump to happen.

The pros work on a throwing motion for the simple reason that accuracy follows repetition follows form, and the accuracy required on the NFL level is so far beyond college it is not imaginable. We're talking inches 35 yards down the field. So yes, all coaches want and teach accuracy. The difference is the definition. And the reason great college QBs disappear down the drain or change positions so quickly.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

The pros work on a throwing motion for the simple reason that accuracy follows repetition follows form, and the accuracy required on the NFL level is so far beyond college it is not imaginable. We're talking inches 35 yards down the field. So yes, all coaches want and teach accuracy. The difference is the definition. And the reason great college QBs disappear down the drain or change positions so quickly.

But to think of fine passing mechanics as "not a requirement at the college level" is ridiculous. The players on any level are required to execute the playbook with as much precision as they can. The more precise and powerful the better. It's a continuum, not a binary check-mark.

What I'm wondering is when a QB gets to the pros with basic, simple problems in his delivery that Smilin' Jack NFL Network guys can make bar patrons understand, why wasn't that addressed during the first 10-15 years of the kid's career?

 

[Skeptic]

But to think of fine passing mechanics as "not a requirement at the college level" is ridiculous. The players on any level are required to execute the playbook with as much precision as they can. The more precise and powerful the better. It's a continuum, not a binary check-mark.

What I'm wondering is when a QB gets to the pros with basic, simple problems in his delivery that Smilin' Jack NFL Network guys can make bar patrons understand, why wasn't that addressed during the first 10-15 years of the kid's career?

I don't mean to imply that every QB has to be the Joe Namath knockoff, as called by Vince Lombardi the "perfect passer". You're right of course, college coaches do try to address these mechanical defects. Maybe the difference is the unlimited contact and practice of the pros vs. 20 hours a week for college. I never understood how Tim Teboe had as much success as he did at Florida, for instance, or having seen him really for the first time, why Johnny Manziel was supposed to be so good in college. Then of course there is Jim Furyk ... enough said.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Well, based only on the two pictures you have -- good catch, by the way -- maybe Thomas is one of those guys who grabs the football however he happens to get it in the exchange. Another quarterback used to do that and doggoned if I can remember who. Interesting, though.

The ball comes out the same way every time in the QB / center exchange. Typically so that the laces are up and go directly into the QBs dominant hand, which is the top most hand under center. The ball shouldn't be snapped inconsistently.