James Graham Transferring

BurdellJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
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390
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Atlanta
This is the danger of responding to an isolated post versus the overall conversation in the thread. I'm on record stating that recruiting rankings generally don't matter near as much as people think, and I am not overly worried about this class. I wouldn't sleep on Pitt however. Their class ranking is centered around two 4*s, the centerpiece being the #86 national player and #9 nationally ranked DT Eliot Donald**. Their other 4* is a DE. We're gonna play them every year, so it would be nice if we could land some 4* studs at DT as well.

** That should be a familiar name for Pitt. His uncle Aaron Donald did pretty well there recently...

I understand and agree with your comment above about being careful responding to isolated posts. But I was very surprised by what seemed to be an overly negative comment because I typically agree with most all of your posts.

And I especially agree 100% that our major shortcoming for years has been failure to snag big, space eating four-star DTs.
 

cthenrys

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
755
Location
Highland Village, TX
I understand and agree with your comment above about being careful responding to isolated posts. But I was very surprised by what seemed to be an overly negative comment because I typically agree with most all of your posts.

And I especially agree 100% that our major shortcoming for years has been failure to snag big, space eating four-star DTs.
It’s always been a challenge for us. When we get one we have little depth. The solution will come 10% from recruiting (because we’ve never been able to get those guys with any frequency), with the remaining coming from player development and scheme. The 4 and 5 stars aren’t just coming because we lift weights on the sidelines
 

Augusta_Jacket

Helluva Engineer
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5,338
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Augusta, Georgia
I understand and agree with your comment above about being careful responding to isolated posts. But I was very surprised by what seemed to be an overly negative comment because I typically agree with most all of your posts.

And I especially agree 100% that our major shortcoming for years has been failure to snag big, space eating four-star DTs.

Yeah, my goal wasn't so much to be negative towards recruiting, but rather to point out that our strategy can't be reduced to "improved recruiting." We are doing a great job at overhauling this program so far, and we are steadily attracting the kinds of guys needed to run our new offense well. My response was aimed more to the posters who believe that simply recruiting better is going to fix everything. That because we play in the ACC Coastal, life will be ok if we recruit better. That viewpoint assumes that every other team is either not aiming to improve as well, or falling to or below our improved level, which is illogical. That's what I was pointing out. Right now we are 7th in the ACC and 5th in the coastal in recruiting. Now, we won't get near Clemson's level of talent any time in the next 2-3 years, and Miami and UNC are recruiting substantially better than us as well. Pitt, UVA, and Louisville are all right near us, and while I like Pitt's DL recruits better than ours, I don't think there's enough difference in the rankings to be overly worried. As I said, we are fine right now IRT recruiting, but we need not sleep on our competition, as they are invested at improving their lot as well.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
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7,059
I understand and agree with your comment above about being careful responding to isolated posts. But I was very surprised by what seemed to be an overly negative comment because I typically agree with most all of your posts.

And I especially agree 100% that our major shortcoming for years has been failure to snag big, space eating four-star DTs.
I can’t find anything on it, but I wonder if rating services underrate DTs. 247 has 1 5* DT this year (committed to Miami) and 20 4*’s. Three of the top twenty are going to Maryland—what’s going on there?
Meanwhile, Alabama has multiple 3* DT commits. Two of their 4 lowest rated recruits are DT’s. I have to think there are some high 4* linebackers that aren’t getting offers because there’s a 3* DT getting that slot.
TL;DR: I think DT star rankings are broken.

Also, this is an old read, but not too stale: https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...tars-national-signing-day-recruiting-rankings
 

4shotB

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3,500

Interesting read. Specifically talks about Wiscy and their strategy/success finding OL, which is a topic that has been kicked around here a bit. Sounds like they are fishing successfully in their own undiscovered honey hole versus going to the same lake as everyone else. The part that stuck out was that the rural kids are playing multiple sports and developing athletically as opposed to being groomed specifically as a FB player only from middle school on as they would be in TX,FL, GA. etc. They don't hit campus as football ready as their more highly rated Southern counterparts but have just as high (if not higher) ceilings in the long run.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
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7,059
Interesting read. Specifically talks about Wiscy and their strategy/success finding OL, which is a topic that has been kicked around here a bit. Sounds like they are fishing successfully in their own undiscovered honey hole versus going to the same lake as everyone else. The part that stuck out was that the rural kids are playing multiple sports and developing athletically as opposed to being groomed specifically as a FB player only from middle school on as they would be in TX,FL, GA. etc. They don't hit campus as football ready as their more highly rated Southern counterparts but have just as high (if not higher) ceilings in the long run.
One coach—was it Tubberville?—said he preferred 2*/3* linemen from small schools, because they hadn’t hit their peak yet. The 4* linemen from big programs had all been trained and coached to their max, and there was little upside left (according to him).
I’d be really happy with a 5* DT, but if Alabama isn’t turning their nose up at 3* DTs, then I don’t think we should either.
This year, I’d gladly take the #45 rated class if the place we killed it was at DT and LB. Even just DT, really. I think we need to get at least two DT candidates a year, even if they’re hybrid DT/OL recruits, just to be deep enough at that position. We’re asking a lot of those players, and they have to keep grinding it out.
 

Jacketman99

Ramblin' Wreck
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869
There are a small number of 4 and 5 star dlinemen out there. If you can get one great. However, you also need to go after they guys that have certain attributes you like that can be developed into high quality players. Sure, they may not be ready day 1. However, they could be highly productive as Juniors and Seniors.
 
Messages
114
When Recruiting DLinemen & LBers, Saban likes to use the ht-wt-speed + HS Tape to see if they have a motor and then after that they develop their players and teach them how to play their position

I think we should do the same, they've had a lot of success in the SEC and they send a lot of guys to the NFL, Dabo uses these same methods at Clemson, maybe he picked it up during his short time at Bama

I like it personally because no matter how Game Smart a Recruit is based on HS Film, if they don't have the size-speed ratio to be successful at the Pwr5 level, all the coaching em up and watching Film won't make a difference

Undersized Gym Rats & "Coach's Sons" and Recruits that don't have defined positions rarely have big time success at the Pwr5 Level

This is why our Roster is in the shape it is, Recruiting Guys that have no clearly defined position when they enroll, that and getting too many Undersized guys and then fattening them up which then hurts their speed & quickness
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
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5,098
I can’t find anything on it, but I wonder if rating services underrate DTs. 247 has 1 5* DT this year (committed to Miami) and 20 4*’s. Three of the top twenty are going to Maryland—what’s going on there?
Meanwhile, Alabama has multiple 3* DT commits. Two of their 4 lowest rated recruits are DT’s. I have to think there are some high 4* linebackers that aren’t getting offers because there’s a 3* DT getting that slot.
TL;DR: I think DT star rankings are broken.

Also, this is an old read, but not too stale: https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...tars-national-signing-day-recruiting-rankings
I've said it before. It is extremely hard to rate DTs accurately. The best often don't show up until they reach campus, Sapp being the best example of that. The Suhs of the world - the natural all-star DTs - are few and far between and even he didn't start to show what he could do until he played a year. This position isn't like DBs or LBs where speed and size combos stick out like sore thumbs. The other thing is that really big guys can fool you. They are strange as human beings go and can usually overpower opposing OLs in high school. You'd think the camps would help, but the situations there are unrealistic and OLs have an advantage in straight confrontations where speed and stunts aren't on the menu.

I say get the best DLs you can, no matter what their ratings, then see what happens. These ar youngsters, after all, and many don't get to their full growth until they are sophs at least. Then play to the strengths of the players you can get. And, of course, keep in school.

And I hope James does end up at Georgia Southern. It's a great match for him.
 

LongforDodd

Helluva Engineer
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2,290
I've said it before. It is extremely hard to rate DTs accurately. The best often don't show up until they reach campus,...

I say get the best DLs you can, no matter what their ratings, then see what happens. These ar youngsters, after all, and many don't get to their full growth until they are sophs at least. Then play to the strengths of the players you can get. And, of course, keep in school.

...
It's all in the footwork...as with any of the best athletes, IMO.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,300
I can’t find anything on it, but I wonder if rating services underrate DTs. 247 has 1 5* DT this year (committed to Miami) and 20 4*’s. Three of the top twenty are going to Maryland—what’s going on there?
Meanwhile, Alabama has multiple 3* DT commits. Two of their 4 lowest rated recruits are DT’s. I have to think there are some high 4* linebackers that aren’t getting offers because there’s a 3* DT getting that slot.
TL;DR: I think DT star rankings are broken.

Also, this is an old read, but not too stale: https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...tars-national-signing-day-recruiting-rankings
Defenses have changed and are changing so much that designating a position no longer matters. Clemson ranges from the standard 4-3 to a 3-4 to a 3-2-6 alignment. Speed and quickness off the ball means more than eating space on the line.
 
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