It's about that time of year again

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,674
It's what happens when you offer anyone with a pulse so long as they're a great athlete. It's the current state of big time college football and it's why we are on the outside looking in.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
The checks were stipend checks for rent. The NCAA allows players to live off campus in "comparable" housing and the institution is allowed to pay that rent. That's what these checks are and why the amounts are the same.

There really is no argument that this is a problem at UGA. However, in fairness, it should also be pointed out that Richt appears to have gotten much stricter once he finally kicked Washaun Ealey (sp?) off the team a few years ago. Since then, he's booted a few players like Nick Marshall, Mettenburger, Harvey-Clemmons and IIRC another couple of players. The problem may be related to something I was told by one of my assistant coaches when I first started coaching baseball. The guy was a retired Coast Guard guy and he told me:

"The most effective ships I ever served on, the captain was a hard ***. The exec was supposed to be the nice guy and he was the one to soothe things over but when you went to see the captain, you were always shaking because of respect and at least just a little bit of fear. You knew he would be fair but he was always tough.

So I would advise you to establish that persona as a head coach. Be the one who's always tough on the players...always pushing them harder and ALWAYS commanding respect from them. Let your assistant coaches be the nice guys who bond with them. But most of all, remember this: IF YOU START OFF AS A HARD ***, YOU CAN ALWAYS GET NICER. BUT IF YOU START OFF AS A NICE GUY, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE TO BEING A HARD *** BECAUSE THE PERCEPTION OF A NICE GUY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE".

I bolded the last 2 sentences, not because he shouted them, but because I think this may be what's hurting Richt in this case. Even if he has the desire to be a super tough guy, his persona in the media and with the recruits is that of a nice guy and the players then eventually believe they can get second chances because of that.

Alabama recruits the same type players, and in many cases, the very same players. But can you imagine some of these guys trying to do something similar to Saban? He just has that persona of the hard *** who isn't going to take crap from anyone and that then means the players fall more into line because of it.

Now that isn't to say Alabama won't have troublemakers, because any program will. Any program with 100+ players is going to have a few bad apples...even GT. But that tougher persona I believe works to Saban's benefit with regards to discipline.
 

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
Messages
12,734
The checks were stipend checks for rent. The NCAA allows players to live off campus in "comparable" housing and the institution is allowed to pay that rent. That's what these checks are and why the amounts are the same.

There really is no argument that this is a problem at UGA. However, in fairness, it should also be pointed out that Richt appears to have gotten much stricter once he finally kicked Washaun Ealey (sp?) off the team a few years ago. Since then, he's booted a few players like Nick Marshall, Mettenburger, Harvey-Clemmons and IIRC another couple of players. The problem may be related to something I was told by one of my assistant coaches when I first started coaching baseball. The guy was a retired Coast Guard guy and he told me:

"The most effective ships I ever served on, the captain was a hard ***. The exec was supposed to be the nice guy and he was the one to soothe things over but when you went to see the captain, you were always shaking because of respect and at least just a little bit of fear. You knew he would be fair but he was always tough.

So I would advise you to establish that persona as a head coach. Be the one who's always tough on the players...always pushing them harder and ALWAYS commanding respect from them. Let your assistant coaches be the nice guys who bond with them. But most of all, remember this: IF YOU START OFF AS A HARD ***, YOU CAN ALWAYS GET NICER. BUT IF YOU START OFF AS A NICE GUY, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE TO BEING A HARD *** BECAUSE THE PERCEPTION OF A NICE GUY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE".

I bolded the last 2 sentences, not because he shouted them, but because I think this may be what's hurting Richt in this case. Even if he has the desire to be a super tough guy, his persona in the media and with the recruits is that of a nice guy and the players then eventually believe they can get second chances because of that.

Alabama recruits the same type players, and in many cases, the very same players. But can you imagine some of these guys trying to do something similar to Saban? He just has that persona of the hard *** who isn't going to take crap from anyone and that then means the players fall more into line because of it.

Now that isn't to say Alabama won't have troublemakers, because any program will. Any program with 100+ players is going to have a few bad apples...even GT. But that tougher persona I believe works to Saban's benefit with regards to discipline.

http://gamedayr.com/sports/alabama-nick-saban-player-arrests/#

That was when All-SEC freshman DJ Pettway, former five-star recruit Eddie Williams, linebacker Tyler Hayes (who recorded two tackles in the national title game as a true frosh) and halfback Brent Calloway were all arrested on charges ranging from second-degree robbery to fraudulent use of a credit card.
Read more at http://gamedayr.com/sports/alabama-nick-saban-player-arrests/#QmSymfUIHrHcZY17.99
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
http://gamedayr.com/sports/alabama-nick-saban-player-arrests/#

That was when All-SEC freshman DJ Pettway, former five-star recruit Eddie Williams, linebacker Tyler Hayes (who recorded two tackles in the national title game as a true frosh) and halfback Brent Calloway were all arrested on charges ranging from second-degree robbery to fraudulent use of a credit card.
Read more at http://gamedayr.com/sports/alabama-nick-saban-player-arrests/#QmSymfUIHrHcZY17.99

Like I said, Alabama will have issues like this too because every program is going to have issues when there are that many diverse personalities in play. But the difference is that there isn't a perceived problem of it happening over and over again like there is at UGA.
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
The checks were stipend checks for rent. The NCAA allows players to live off campus in "comparable" housing and the institution is allowed to pay that rent. That's what these checks are and why the amounts are the same.

There really is no argument that this is a problem at UGA. However, in fairness, it should also be pointed out that Richt appears to have gotten much stricter once he finally kicked Washaun Ealey (sp?) off the team a few years ago. Since then, he's booted a few players like Nick Marshall, Mettenburger, Harvey-Clemmons and IIRC another couple of players. The problem may be related to something I was told by one of my assistant coaches when I first started coaching baseball. The guy was a retired Coast Guard guy and he told me:

"The most effective ships I ever served on, the captain was a hard ***. The exec was supposed to be the nice guy and he was the one to soothe things over but when you went to see the captain, you were always shaking because of respect and at least just a little bit of fear. You knew he would be fair but he was always tough.

So I would advise you to establish that persona as a head coach. Be the one who's always tough on the players...always pushing them harder and ALWAYS commanding respect from them. Let your assistant coaches be the nice guys who bond with them. But most of all, remember this: IF YOU START OFF AS A HARD ***, YOU CAN ALWAYS GET NICER. BUT IF YOU START OFF AS A NICE GUY, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE TO BEING A HARD *** BECAUSE THE PERCEPTION OF A NICE GUY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE".

I bolded the last 2 sentences, not because he shouted them, but because I think this may be what's hurting Richt in this case. Even if he has the desire to be a super tough guy, his persona in the media and with the recruits is that of a nice guy and the players then eventually believe they can get second chances because of that.

Alabama recruits the same type players, and in many cases, the very same players. But can you imagine some of these guys trying to do something similar to Saban? He just has that persona of the hard *** who isn't going to take crap from anyone and that then means the players fall more into line because of it.

Now that isn't to say Alabama won't have troublemakers, because any program will. Any program with 100+ players is going to have a few bad apples...even GT. But that tougher persona I believe works to Saban's benefit with regards to discipline.
Years ago in another world my perception was that I was going to let no player get away with not hustling period..Yes raise hell and jump up and down but........when the player did well sell his performance.Coaches and officers I served with and commanded had various styles but no doubt you didnt want to see the Commander period in his office.It meant you either did something really good or .....really bad.Richt has really had no enforcer on the staff and I think kids know it.You make a mistake and miss a quarter vs a small town team and word gets around..Ross remember kicked William Bell off the team for book charges and we all know Erk and his rein on players at Ga.When you get talent like Georgie and Bama etc and you make them follow the rules word gets around also and so far I agree .........MR has got a long ride to being considered a tough football coach running a good program.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
Years ago in another world my perception was that I was going to let no player get away with not hustling period..Yes raise hell and jump up and down but........when the player did well sell his performance.Coaches and officers I served with and commanded had various styles but no doubt you didnt want to see the Commander period in his office.It meant you either did something really good or .....really bad.Richt has really had no enforcer on the staff and I think kids know it.You make a mistake and miss a quarter vs a small town team and word gets around..Ross remember kicked William Bell off the team for book charges and we all know Erk and his rein on players at Ga.When you get talent like Georgie and Bama etc and you make them follow the rules word gets around also and so far I agree .........MR has got a long ride to being considered a tough football coach running a good program.

I agree with that. FWIW, I try my best to be a practictioner of "Praise in public, scold in private". I have always told my players that I will never get onto them for an error of execution. If a player has a rocket shot go between his legs, I'm not going to fuss at him for missing the ball if he was giving it his best. What's he going to do? Reverse time and make the play?

But I will crawl all over them (in private) for making a mental mistake like not knowing where the other runners were or paying attention to small details that are the difference between winning or losing.

Many is the time that I've pulled a player off to the side and asked him why he did what he did on a particular play in question. If the kid has a good, honest explanation for what he did, but he just made the wrong decision, then I'll quietly explain why he should have done differently but I'm not going to get onto him for making the wrong decision. If he continues to make that same mistake for the same reason, I simply play someone else...he'll figure it out by himself why or he's free to ask me.

I try not to come off as an ogre but I have heeded my friend's advice and it has been incredibly effective. But a big part of that is:
- defining the rules up front
- enforcing the rules whenever they're broken...regardless of who the player is or how good that player is
- being consistent and always enforcing the rules

When you do that, the players quickly understand what the expectations are and that they better abide by them because they have 100% confidence that punishment will be swift and just and always forthcoming if they're caught. And I agree with your statement. I think Richt has missed having that enforcer type on the staff. And since he didn't start off being the enforcer, it's really difficult to change the perception that you now are the enforcer.
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
I agree with that. FWIW, I try my best to be a practictioner of "Praise in public, scold in private". I have always told my players that I will never get onto them for an error of execution. If a player has a rocket shot go between his legs, I'm not going to fuss at him for missing the ball if he was giving it his best. What's he going to do? Reverse time and make the play?

But I will crawl all over them (in private) for making a mental mistake like not knowing where the other runners were or paying attention to small details that are the difference between winning or losing.

Many is the time that I've pulled a player off to the side and asked him why he did what he did on a particular play in question. If the kid has a good, honest explanation for what he did, but he just made the wrong decision, then I'll quietly explain why he should have done differently but I'm not going to get onto him for making the wrong decision. If he continues to make that same mistake for the same reason, I simply play someone else...he'll figure it out by himself why or he's free to ask me.

I try not to come off as an ogre but I have heeded my friend's advice and it has been incredibly effective. But a big part of that is:
- defining the rules up front
- enforcing the rules whenever they're broken...regardless of who the player is or how good that player is
- being consistent and always enforcing the rules

When you do that, the players quickly understand what the expectations are and that they better abide by them because they have 100% confidence that punishment will be swift and just and always forthcoming if they're caught. And I agree with your statement. I think Richt has missed having that enforcer type on the staff. And since he didn't start off being the enforcer, it's really difficult to change the perception that you now are the enforcer.
Big thing if I had it going for me was players knew that after the butt chewing which was done in public for effect ,I would pat them on the butt and harbored no grudge.Yeah when I coached baseball worst thing that would set me off was MISSING the cutoff man......when that happened it looked like a merry go round out there.Kids like coaches who are not a Hitler but they know quickly who they can fool with and who they cant and usually its the ASST coaches who have bunch of fun with them.Yep Rule Number 1 for Louisville Eagles was when you hit the practice field ......helmet went on head and stayed there for practice...Seniors who ran the magic lap liked to get rookies to take helmet off ....was fun but it made a point.Shoot make it fun but keep players off balance at times is a good thing.
 
Top