Is ACC underrated?

[MWBATL]

While I tend to agree that the SEC is the best conference, the margin is actually thin. And therein lies the problem. The hype machine on ESPN makes it sound like the gap is huge. It isn't. For every Wake Forest loss to a UL-Monroe, there is a Vandy loss to Temple. The conferences are quite similar, really. But I do think the SEC is slightly better than everyone else, and they usually are...slightly better.

FYI, the SEC is 11-7 against Power 5 opponents on the road since 2010. That is decent, but not overwhelming. They are 10-6 at home. Frankly, these records are driven almost exclusively by their marks agains the ACC (NB-this does NOT include the Kentucky-Louisville data, which Louisville has dominated. Add that in the records change to 12-8 on the road and 10-8 at home.) Without that, against the other 3 Power 5 conferences, the SEC is 3-3 on the road and 3-3 at home. (NB-these are all regular season results, the SEC has done extremely well in Bowl Games, which I will argue are home games for them). This data also does not include any of Mizzou's or the Aggies records.

It is actually amazing to me how few games there have been against Power 5 conference teams (other than ACC) in the past 4 seasons. Twelve games total. Just wow. Bunch of chickens, really. Simply refuse to do home and home with other power teams, and perhaps we see the reason why here.

PS- the Stassen website is great for looking up head to head records

 

[DTGT]

Yes and no. If the ACC wins all of these games or if the ACC plays close in all of these games, it will not make much of a difference to those who promote the myth of SEC superiority. The "experts" will say, "It's just one game, not a trend." That is the problem. Of course if the ACC were to lose all of these it will not be seen as just one game on the schedule but rather we give evidence of a deep genetic disorder in the ACC body that will forever prohibit it from being able to compete with "the big boys." Clemson beat LSU and Georgia in back to back seasons and it was written off as soon as Clemson lost to another SEC team. And when was the last time Ohio State beat an ACC team? But we still are talked about like we are below that conference on some blogs.

ACC needs to win more bowl games on a regular basis, especially the post Christmas bowls and then we'll get more respect.

Winning regular season OOC games will help too.

After last season, when an ACC won the National Championship and a BCS Bowl game, as well as swept every major player award (i.e. the Heisman Tropy), a repeat of outstanding play by our member teams and players could be argued as the new pattern, not an "old trend". Just one man's opinion.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Winning will not cure the corporate media bias." We could win everything 3 years in a row and ESPN would still have their 20 year contract with the SEC. Disney (the owner of ESPN) is contractually obligated to hype the SEC.

 

[DTGT]

While I tend to agree that the SEC is the best conference, the margin is actually thin. And therein lies the problem. The hype machine on ESPN makes it sound like the gap is huge. It isn't. For every Wake Forest loss to a UL-Monroe, there is a Vandy loss to Temple. The conferences are quite similar, really. But I do think the SEC is slightly better than everyone else, and they usually are...slightly better.

FYI, the SEC is 11-7 against Power 5 opponents on the road since 2010. That is decent, but not overwhelming. They are 10-6 at home. Frankly, these records are driven almost exclusively by their marks agains the ACC (NB-this does NOT include the Kentucky-Louisville data, which Louisville has dominated. Add that in the records change to 12-8 on the road and 10-8 at home.) Without that, against the other 3 Power 5 conferences, the SEC is 3-3 on the road and 3-3 at home. (NB-these are all regular season results, the SEC has done extremely well in Bowl Games, which I will argue are home games for them). This data also does not include any of Mizzou's or the Aggies records.

It is actually amazing to me how few games there have been against Power 5 conference teams (other than ACC) in the past 4 seasons. Twelve games total. Just wow. Bunch of chickens, really. Simply refuse to do home and home with other power teams, and perhaps we see the reason why here.

PS- the Stassen website is great for looking up head to head records

I'll answer this with a previous post:

The SEC is a combined 3-5 in BCS bowls over the past 4 bowl seasons. Take away the SEC vs SEC nonsense and the record is 2-4 in recent BCS bowls. Why is 2-4 considered "dominance"? Because ESPN has a 20 year contract with the SEC.

 

[Jacket Bracket]

Clemson vs USCe, FSU vs UF, and our game vs the mutts will speak loudly to this question.

And Louisville vs Kentucky. Will be interesting to see how ACC does in these games. We have teams in the same state as the SEC in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky. I predict at least 3 wins for the ACC in these games.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

SECSPN talking heads just stated that if FSU loses 1 game, the ACC is done in the playoff. Oh, they did say Duke has an outside chance if they win out and everybody else has 2 losses.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

SECSPN talking heads just stated that if FSU loses 1 game, the ACC is done in the playoff. Oh, they did say Duke has an outside chance if they win out and everybody else has 2 losses.

I have heard several say this over the past week or two. Our best bet is the SEC champ come from UF, Misouri, or the Pups after we knock them off. I would love to see how they would spin that.

 

[awbuzz]

SECSPN talking heads just stated that if FSU loses 1 game, the ACC is done in the playoff. Oh, they did say Duke has an outside chance if they win out and everybody else has 2 losses.

Thought they added when pigs fly too.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

SECSPN talking heads just stated that if FSU loses 1 game, the ACC is done in the playoff. Oh, they did say Duke has an outside chance if they win out and everybody else has 2 losses.

There was an awful lot of talk about FSU losing to Louisville prior to the game and a big sigh of disappointment when FSU won. FSU may be the only team in college right now that has to go undefeated to get in the playoffs.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

SECSPN talking heads just stated that if FSU loses 1 game, the ACC is done in the playoff. Oh, they did say Duke has an outside chance if they win out and everybody else has 2 losses.

Based on FSU's weak SOS and weak wins, I think that's right. Football Outsiders has FSU at 9th right now (and Mississippi St at 6th). An FSU loss to @Miami, BC or Fl or Fluke would keep FSU out of my top 4. And I think Miami is a legit #12 right now after a really slow start ..... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus

My top 4 with assuming an FSU loss to Miami today would be: Mississippi St, Oregon, Az State and Alabama. But Mississippi State and Alabama are going to be an either or depending on who wins this weekend. We could see no SEC teams if they all end up with 2 or more losses after the SEC CG!

 

[dressedcheeseside]

We could see no SEC teams if they all end up with 2 or more losses after the SEC CG!

Please, please, please, pretty please....

 

[GTonTop88]

Had this argument last night with a co-worker, I said something about TCU would get in over UGA if Uga were to win out. He said, "Who is TCU? They dont play nobody, just like Marshall" I went on to say that they had a tougher schedule than uga, with playin KSU, WV, Baylor, Ok, Ok St. That really pissed him off lol. He went on about how in the Sec that everybody beat each other up bla bla bla. Anyway I made him look stupid, being an avid college football fan and him being just a Sec fan and only looking at the sec score. He was no match lol

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The SEC as a whole really doesn't play strong schedules and they thrive off of being consistently perceived every year as full of the best teams in the nation. It doesn't really bother me that they or their fans take advantage of this fact (although not recognizing propaganda or holding deep illusions is admittedly pitiable).

I think that given the deep-rooted sleaziness of bagmen and payola/bribery in recruiting at major state universities generally and then in particular this being widely acknowledged as better organized and more deeply entrenched at SEC schools, makes it very easy to assume each year that the "most talented" players will be in the SEC and thus the likeliest "best teams" will be in the SEC. Of course, no one admits that this is the best reason to start out with SEC superiority as a working assumption each year.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The SEC right now is just playing musical chairs. They get the preseason rankings based on reputation and nothing else, then beat each other up at random and just switch places within the top 20. All the while there are other teams with the exact same record with similar wins and losses further down the rankings. It's all bogus.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

The SEC right now is just playing musical chairs. They get the preseason rankings based on reputation and nothing else, then beat each other up at random and just switch places within the top 20. All the while there are other teams with the exact same record with similar wins and losses further down the rankings. It's all bogus.

They got the preseason rankings because in each of the last two years they have beaten over 3/4 of the FBS out of conference teams they played. If they continue to do that this year (including bowls of course) they will go into next year with high rankings. (see my earlier post #14)

The only reason FSU was in the top 4 for most of this year is because of how good they did last year. Now that they are 9-0 you can argue they should be there, but not early in the season with the weak wins.

The problem with CFB is that there are 128 or so teams and only 12 games in the season. Figuring out how they rank within 5 or so rankings is mostly opinion. We are a couple of great plays from being undefeated and a couple of lousy plays from being 6-4. But we're essentially the same team with or without those couple of plays.

 

[YJAlleyCat]

Anyone who has the illusion that the SEC plays tough out of conference schedules should take a gander at Mississippi State's non-con schedule.

 

[Minawreck]

Based on FSU's weak SOS and weak wins, I think that's right. Football Outsiders has FSU at 9th right now (and Mississippi St at 6th). An FSU loss to @Miami, BC or Fl or Fluke would keep FSU out of my top 4. And I think Miami is a legit #12 right now after a really slow start ..... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus

My top 4 with assuming an FSU loss to Miami today would be: Mississippi St, Oregon, Az State and Alabama. But Mississippi State and Alabama are going to be an either or depending on who wins this weekend. We could see no SEC teams if they all end up with 2 or more losses after the SEC CG!

FSU's weak SOS includes Oklahoma State, Notre Dame, Florida, Clemson, Louisville, Miami, and one of GT, Duke, and/or Miami...

FSU has a lot of things but a weak schedule is not one of them.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

FSU's weak SOS includes Oklahoma State, Notre Dame, Florida, Clemson, Louisville, Miami, and one of GT, Duke, and/or Miami...

FSU has a lot of things but a weak schedule is not one of them.

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/cf2014.htm

FSU's SOS year to date for their nine games has been .544. That's in the "YTD" column. You can see how much stronger other top 10 tens SOS for YTD have been (based on this objective measurement). Also, the "SOS" column is for the whole regular season year including the last 3 games. And given the problems which FSU has had with weaker teams, I think they will have a toss up game with Miami.

 

[MWBATL]

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/cf2014.htm

FSU's SOS year to date for their nine games has been .544. That's in the "YTD" column. You can see how much stronger other top 10 tens SOS for YTD have been (based on this objective measurement). Also, the "SOS" column is for the whole regular season year including the last 3 games. And given the problems which FSU has had with weaker teams, I think they will have a toss up game with Miami.

Yes, but you are forgetting that the SEC teams all generally play very weak OOC schedules, which allows them to all have wonderful winning percentages. Take note that in my post above, I pointed out that, aside form the end-of-year rivalry games with the ACC, the SEC has played a grand total of 12 games in just over 4 years against power 5 conference teams. And gone 6-6 in those games. That averages out to about 3 such games a year, over 12 teams! Or looked at another way, each SEC team has played one, ONE power 5 game in the last 4 plus years outside the SEC-ACC rivalry games. That allows the SEC teams fatten up their W-L records, and if they are smart enough to schedule decent non Power 5 schools with decent W-L records, then ...ta-da...you look good in that metric even though it means nothing.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/cf2014.htm

FSU's SOS year to date for their nine games has been .544. That's in the "YTD" column. You can see how much stronger other top 10 tens SOS for YTD have been (based on this objective measurement). Also, the "SOS" column is for the whole regular season year including the last 3 games. And given the problems which FSU has had with weaker teams, I think they will have a toss up game with Miami.

SoS is not some fact based data point, it is highly subjective. It also fluctuates throughout the year. When should you consider it, at the beginning of the year or at the end? What about in the middle of the year and why is that any better than any other time? It's subjective from the start so it's fluctuations must also be subjective. It makes no sense to me.

 

[UgaBlows]

funny that ugays best win by far is against an acc team.....clemson, the other teams they've beat are all hot garbage.