Interesting GT Critique in Calvin Johnson Article

[Chattjacket]

I didn't mean for this to spiral into a debate about Gailey. I think there has been plenty of that in the last decade. I was just surprised at the comment by the scout since I hadn't heard that criticism before.

 

[Techster]

FWIW, Chris Brown who has that site Smartfooball.com and writes for Grantland.com made a comment last year on twitter during one of our games about how some of our passing concepts were outdated. If you know anything about Chris Brown, it's that he started that site analyzing a lot of CPJ's running and passing concepts. He's a fan of CPJ's.

We all know that a lot of our passing concepts are derived from the Run and Shoot (Choice, Switch, Go, etc.). If you've been paying attention to modern football, a lot of the pro passing game has implemented Run and Shoot concepts...though in modified forms. The core tenet being that routes are no longer static, but run based on coverage and chosen on the fly...the QB and WR being on the same page as the play progresses.

http://grantland.com/features/chris-brown-victor-cruz-new-york-giants/

Those core tenets are also the cornerstone of the popular Air Raid offenses we see today.

The point is, and some others have touched on it, the passing game and the way coaches and quarterbacks want the routes run will vary because they each have their own quirks. Peyton Manning for instance, is NOTORIOUS for making his receiver stay after practice and getting them together in the offseason to run routes and patterns the way he likes it. Many articles have been written about this and how one of our very own guys (Demaryius Thomas) has had to adjust.

There is NO WR going to walk into a pro camp from college with the ability to transition seamlessly into a pro team's offense...I don't care if the WR comes from the best "pro" offense in college. All pro teams want WR to run their system a different way...and that includes routes. What colleges can do is prepare players for basic WR responsibilities...reading defenses, knowing how to get off the line in man coverage, blocking, know the route tree, etc. There is nothing on that list that GT doesn't prepare a WR for outside of the entire route tree. Even then, a GT WR will run a lot routes similar to those on a route tree because a lot our routes from the Run and Shoot passing concepts call for it even though they're not necessarily called the same things.

IMHO, the most important factor outside of physical ability for a player's success is their willingness to learn and ability to apply their knowledge on the field.

 

[daBuzz]

FWIW, Chris Brown who has that site Smartfooball.com and writes for Grantland.com made a comment last year on twitter during one of our games about how some of our passing concepts were outdated. If you know anything about Chris Brown, it's that he started that site analyzing a lot of CPJ's running and passing concepts. He's a fan of CPJ's.

We all know that a lot of our passing concepts are derived from the Run and Shoot (Choice, Switch, Go, etc.). If you've been paying attention to modern football, a lot of the pro passing game has implemented Run and Shoot concepts...though in modified forms. The core tenet being that routes are no longer static, but run based on coverage and chosen on the fly...the QB and WR being on the same page as the play progresses.

http://grantland.com/features/chris-brown-victor-cruz-new-york-giants/

Those core tenets are also the cornerstone of the popular Air Raid offenses we see today.

The point is, and some others have touched on it, the passing game and the way coaches and quarterbacks want the routes run will vary because they each have their own quirks. Peyton Manning for instance, is NOTORIOUS for making his receiver stay after practice and getting them together in the offseason to run routes and patterns the way he likes it. Many articles have been written about this and how one of our very own guys (Demaryius Thomas) has had to adjust.

There is NO WR going to walk into a pro camp from college with the ability to transition seamlessly into a pro team's offense...I don't care if the WR comes from the best "pro" offense in college. All pro teams want WR to run their system a different way...and that includes routes. What colleges can do is prepare players for basic WR responsibilities...reading defenses, knowing how to get off the line in man coverage, blocking, know the route tree, etc. There is nothing on that list that GT doesn't prepare a WR for outside of the entire route tree. Even then, a GT WR will run a lot routes similar to those on a route tree because a lot our routes from the Run and Shoot passing concepts call for it even though they're not necessarily called the same things.

IMHO, the most important factor outside of physical ability for a player's success is their willingness to learn and ability to apply their knowledge on the field.

Excellent post. I will add though that there are "mechanical" things about route running that need to be taught in college. Things like not rounding off routes and proper technique for dropping the hip to make a cut without telegraphing the cut.

I'm not a receivers coach so I wouldn't know, but I often wonder how much of that our guys get in this offense. That's not a critique because I don't know. I'm just curious. I've been to practices and watched the receivers many times before and I don't remember much of that under Johnson but FWIW, I don't remember noticing that at a Gailey practice either.

 

[Techster]

Excellent post. I will add though that there are "mechanical" things about route running that need to be taught in college. Things like not rounding off routes and proper technique for dropping the hip to make a cut without telegraphing the cut.

I'm not a receivers coach so I wouldn't know, but I often wonder how much of that our guys get in this offense. That's not a critique because I don't know. I'm just curious. I've been to practices and watched the receivers many times before and I don't remember much of that under Johnson but FWIW, I don't remember noticing that at a Gailey practice either.

The technical aspects of route running like you mentioned (not rounding routes, dropping hips in/out of cuts, foot positioning before turning, leverage)...those are fundamental things taught at the high school level. When WR don't follow it, to me it's more laziness than coaching...unless coaches don't drill it into their WRs heads.

It's like being a QB. All systems want their QBs to bring the ball up around ear level as to cut time on releases, plant the opposite leg from their throwing side, etc. There are nuances that are different in each system, like we have our QBs drop back to the same side as the play but flip their hips to their natural throwing side once the drop back is complete. Again, all preference in the system...just a matter of whether the QB chooses to adhere to fundamentals. Vad for instance had a bad habit of throwing off his back foot even though he paid gobs of money to fly out West to get coached by QB guru George Whitefield NOT to do that. Tebow had a terrible time not dropping the ball to start his throwing motion at his hips...even though he also spent gobs of money every year with QB coaches NOT to do it. At some point it's the athlete's responsibility to apply the coaching.

 

[daBuzz]

The technical aspects of route running like you mentioned (not rounding routes, dropping hips in/out of cuts, foot positioning before turning, leverage)...those are fundamental things taught at the high school level. When WR don't follow it, to me it's more laziness than coaching...unless coaches don't drill it into their WRs heads.

It's like being a QB. All systems want their QBs to bring the ball up around ear level as to cut time on releases, plant the opposite leg from their throwing side, etc. There are nuances that are different in each system, like we have our QBs drop back to the same side as the play but flip their hips to their natural throwing side once the drop back is complete. Again, all preference in the system...just a matter of whether the QB chooses to adhere to fundamentals. Vad for instance had a bad habit of throwing off his back foot even though he paid gobs of money to fly out West to get coached by QB guru George Whitefield NOT to do that. Tebow had a terrible time not dropping the ball to start his throwing motion at his hips...even though he also spent gobs of money every year with QB coaches NOT to do it. At some point it's the athlete's responsibility to apply the coaching.

Maybe true. But if you watch Hard Knocks, those pro coaches spend an awful lot of time with those guys working on just those little subtle details.
So I would think you'd still want to work on that at the college level as well.

 

[Techster]

Maybe true. But if you watch Hard Knocks, those pro coaches spend an awful lot of time with those guys working on just those little subtle details.
So I would think you'd still want to work on that at the college level as well.

Definitely. Always work on fundamentals. Peyton Manning, who in my opinion is the greatest QB to ever play the game, and is about to break every passing record in the pro game...he's dropped back to pass how many hundreds of thousands of time in practice and in games...thrown the ball with perfect mechanics just as many times...yet, he still video tapes every rep in practice and games because he wants to make sure the fundamental aspects of being a QB isn't breaking down.

Some athletes are just so physically gifted that everything comes easy to them and they don't pay attention to the little details...like the ones you listed. Mike Vick admitted that he pretty much went through the motions during his time in Atlanta because he knew if everything broke down, he could still rely on his freakish skillset...that's why his "traditional" QB skills never developed. When elite talent like Calvin and Peyton and now Demaryius focus on the little things, the talent gets magnified.