Interesting GT Critique in Calvin Johnson Article

[Chattjacket]

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-pa...form-panthers-offense-but-hes-no-megatron-yet

I came across this article this morning (it's a few weeks old) and something caught my attention. I don't recall ever seeing this criticism of GT while Calvin was here.

"Johnson was much rawer as a route-runner and overall wide receiver as a rookie compared to Benjamin, who came from a more advanced system in college. They both are big. But Benjamin -- while very talented -- isn't in the same ballpark as Johnson."

This quote is from a former NFL scout. I honestly can't tell if he's saying Gailey's system was not advanced or if he's attributing Calvin's time at GT to Paul Johnson. Considering Gailey has been an NFL Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach, I would assume it's the 2nd.

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting. I think I remember some comments around the draft about him not being a polished route-runner, but never anything about the system. FWIW, he was a former Cleveland Browns scout, so maybe anything he's saying should be taken with a grain of salt anyway...

 

[redmule]

I think the perception that Calvin played for Johnson is actually good for Tech. Let recruits think that CPJ has put Calvin, Baybay, Hill, and next year Smelter all into the NFL.

 

[Techster]

Stephen Hill mention in there as well.

 

[Minawreck]

my thing about route running and all that garbage is that I would think that sort of thing is all re-trained based on OC anyway. I would much rather have a receiver who does the fundamental things a receiver needs to do well (catch, block, and run) and have an aptitude for learning (went to GT) than someone who was a polished route runner in his particular system. You can mold him in your image so to speak.

 

[Chattjacket]

Stephen Hill mention in there as well.

That's actually how I found the article. I was looking to see if there was any news on him possibly being called up to the active roster for Carolina.

 

[vamosjackets]

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-pa...form-panthers-offense-but-hes-no-megatron-yet

I came across this article this morning (it's a few weeks old) and something caught my attention. I don't recall ever seeing this criticism of GT while Calvin was here.

"Johnson was much rawer as a route-runner and overall wide receiver as a rookie compared to Benjamin, who came from a more advanced system in college. They both are big. But Benjamin -- while very talented -- isn't in the same ballpark as Johnson."

This quote is from a former NFL scout. I honestly can't tell if he's saying Gailey's system was not advanced or if he's attributing Calvin's time at GT to Paul Johnson. Considering Gailey has been an NFL Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach, I would assume it's the 2nd.

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting. I think I remember some comments around the draft about him not being a polished route-runner, but never anything about the system. FWIW, he was a former Cleveland Browns scout, so maybe anything he's saying should be taken with a grain of salt anyway...

That quote is idiotic and shows total ignorance on the part of whoever said it and even the person quoting it for not noticing how wrong it was. Just shows that most of the talking heads have nothing to say but have to say something so they just reach for whatever cliche they can find.

 

[slugboy]

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-pa...form-panthers-offense-but-hes-no-megatron-yet

I came across this article this morning (it's a few weeks old) and something caught my attention. I don't recall ever seeing this criticism of GT while Calvin was here.

"Johnson was much rawer as a route-runner and overall wide receiver as a rookie compared to Benjamin, who came from a more advanced system in college. They both are big. But Benjamin -- while very talented -- isn't in the same ballpark as Johnson."

This quote is from a former NFL scout. I honestly can't tell if he's saying Gailey's system was not advanced or if he's attributing Calvin's time at GT to Paul Johnson. Considering Gailey has been an NFL Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach, I would assume it's the 2nd.

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting. I think I remember some comments around the draft about him not being a polished route-runner, but never anything about the system. FWIW, he was a former Cleveland Browns scout, so maybe anything he's saying should be taken with a grain of salt anyway...

Was Gailey's system of routes as complicated as CPJ's? I don't remember much complexity in what Gailey ran--just really standard pro-set stuff.

 

[takethepoints]

One of the things that never seems to come through in these treatments is just how physically talented the WRs at Tech have been down through the years. It's hard to think of a school that's had more really fast WRs with good hands then Tech has had in the last 20 years. Gailey ran a pure vanilla pro set because we always had WRs who could beat most any DB with a straight post. No need to fool around. Same story now: it isn't that we don't have people open all over the place. It's delivering the ball that's been the problem, imho.

 

[Chattjacket]

One of the things that never seems to come through in these treatments is just how physically talented the WRs at Tech have been down through the years. It's hard to think of a school that's had more really fast WRs with good hands then Tech has had in the last 20 years. Gailey ran a pure vanilla pro set because we always had WRs who could beat most any DB with a straight post. No need to fool around. Same story now: it isn't that we don't have people open all over the place. It's delivering the ball that's been the problem, imho.

Very good point.

 

[jchens_GT]

That quote is idiotic and shows total ignorance on the part of whoever said it and even the person quoting it for not noticing how wrong it was. Just shows that most of the talking heads have nothing to say but have to say something so they just reach for whatever cliche they can find.

Couldn't agree more. Good grief....

 

[Techster]

That's actually how I found the article. I was looking to see if there was any news on him possibly being called up to the active roster for Carolina.

I heard he was a candidate to move up to the full squad last game due to injury of a non WR. It was between him and another player...I guess for special teams purposes. Haven't heard much of Hill since he went to Carolina.



In other news...the Jets offense still suck, their WRs still look horrible, and now they don't have "overdrafted" Stephen Hill to blame. Instead, they are blaming their QB. Getting released from the Jets could actually prove to be a career saver for Hill.

 

[GTonTop88]

Smelter looks to be a pretty good route runner. Calvin, Bey Bey, and Hill were alot faster than Benjamin and Smelter so they could use their speed to get separation rather than being more precise with their routes. Not sayin we shouldn't develop our recievers more but if Benjamin ran a 4.3 I doubt he woulda been much better than Calvin with routes coming outta college.

 

[33jacket]

Was Gailey's system of routes as complicated as CPJ's? I don't remember much complexity in what Gailey ran--just really standard pro-set stuff.

as complicated as CPJ? No way more complicated. We ran the full route tree under Chan. In fact just for craps sake I went back and watched film of that 2006 team...let me tell you, I recalled that offense being BLAH...but man looking back at it, it was not blah at all. We didn't execute plays that were there, and got a bit predictable with some play calls. But that offense looked every bit of what we see from UGA, LSU, Alabama today. It was basically the same type of playbook. Just look at the WR from those programs.

We ran a power set I-Form with shotgun option, zone and power block scheme. I think our issue is got stuck in the mud with some playcalling, but the scheme was fine.

 

[daBuzz]

Perhaps the quote wasn't entirely incorrect.
To be honest, I would imagine there are probably less than 10 offenses in college football that really and truly prepare a college WR to be a truly proficient route runner in the NFL. That # was pulled out of thin air because I don't feel like checking how many former NFL head coaches or offensive coordinators are back coaching in college again.

But route running in the pros is much much more than just running the route. It's reading the coverage and adjusting to predetermined alternate routes on the fly...and making the same read as the QB so that both of you are on the same page at the same time. It's making cuts at the exact distance and angle and probably a zillion other things that anyone who hasn't played the position in the pros would have no idea about.

And yes, the quote in the article wasn't even a thinly veiled slam at the current offense. And while I've made no secret of my dislike for the triple option, in fairness, I was told that Gailey's offense wasn't overly complicated either compared to the pros. I do know that Gailey didn't even trust his QB's at one point (R Ball's freshman year, IIRC) enough to allow them to audible at the line and check out of a bad play.

Edited to add:
I just read 33's comments. And yes, I have spoken with coaches and players and they all have said that our passing offense is "very basic" now compared to previous offenses.

 

[presjacket]

as complicated as CPJ? No way more complicated. We ran the full route tree under Chan. In fact just for craps sake I went back and watched film of that 2006 team...let me tell you, I recalled that offense being BLAH...but man looking back at it, it was not blah at all. We didn't execute plays that were there, and got a bit predictable with some play calls. But that offense looked every bit of what we see from UGA, LSU, Alabama today. It was basically the same type of playbook. Just look at the WR from those programs.

We ran a power set I-Form with shotgun option, zone and power block scheme. I think our issue is got stuck in the mud with some playcalling, but the scheme was fine.

That reverse to Calvin on 3rd and 2 in the 2006 ACC championship game was certainly creative. Dadgumit, it has been nearly 8 years and thinking about that still makes my blood pressure rise.

 

[GTRX7]

That reverse to Calvin on 3rd and 2 in the 2006 ACC championship game was certainly creative. Dadgumit, it has been nearly 8 years and thinking about that still makes my blood pressure rise.

Just watched the first drive of that game again for fun (I couldn't stand to watch any more!). We moved the ball so easily and looked great. I was there and thought we were going to win by a bunch. How did we not get more out of Calvin in that game I will never know. It all seemed to go down hill after we missed the easy touchdown pass on 3rd and goal that first drive and had to kick the field goal. Such a sad game.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

as complicated as CPJ? No way more complicated. We ran the full route tree under Chan. In fact just for craps sake I went back and watched film of that 2006 team...let me tell you, I recalled that offense being BLAH...but man looking back at it, it was not blah at all. We didn't execute plays that were there, and got a bit predictable with some play calls. But that offense looked every bit of what we see from UGA, LSU, Alabama today. It was basically the same type of playbook. Just look at the WR from those programs.

We ran a power set I-Form with shotgun option, zone and power block scheme. I think our issue is got stuck in the mud with some playcalling, but the scheme was fine.

I think Gailey was a pretty decent coach. Can't say his schemes were bad. And I really liked his D coordinator. Gailey's problems on O were....from my untrained eye....possibley too conservative play calls at times and talent at certain positions. Considering who he had under center...and I'm not a Ball hater but recognize his significant limitations...I can understand why. As is often the case...when a play works fans think it was supposed to....when it doesn't, for whatever reason (opposing D making a play, our player missing assignment, etc),....the coach was an idiot.

 

[33jacket]

I think Gailey was a pretty decent coach. Can't say his schemes were bad. And I really liked his D coordinator. Gailey's problems on O were....from my untrained eye....possibley too conservative play calls at times and talent at certain positions. Considering who he had under center...and I'm not a Ball hater but recognize his significant limitations...I can understand why. As is often the case...when a play works fans think it was supposed to....when it doesn't, for whatever reason (opposing D making a play, our player missing assignment, etc),....the coach was an idiot.

You know we had 6 nfl legit players on that O in 2006. Not practice squad. Nfl 2 deep. Choice. Cox. Gardner. Wrotto. Johnson. Matthews.

One problem was qb consistency.

The other was for sure playcalling issues. The scheme was good enough. Perhaps teaching of the scheme was also mediocre.

 

[AE 87]

Okay, since we're on this topic again, I thought I'd post a before and after look at Gailey.
From before his hire at GT

Now in his second season with the Dolphins, Gailey has come under some criticism from the Miami media for being too conservative in his play-calling. A former defensive coordinator, Gailey likes to run the ball and avoid turnovers to keep his defense out of bad situations.

And the title of this article:
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...an_gaileys_play_calling_not_to_blame/12210409

 

[mqpayne]

Gailey had no imagination and would not listen to his assistants every place he went. The reverse to Calvin here in Jax in 2006 in the rain was the end.