Interesting game of the past - 2004 UConn

PBR549

PBR549

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
837
Milwaukee said:
Roof's recruiting? Where and what do you love about that? Please give me examples and results, not just one per season.

Disclaimer: no grudge against Roof at all, he's a decent to solid coach.
Click to expand...
About every defender we've recruited the last three years .
 
tech_wreck47

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
PBR549 said:
You have you're mind made up. I think you're wrong. There are a lot of good schemes. You can understand more than one. Again it's not rocket science. You do what you believe in. Roof and others know exactly what Tenuta does scheme wise. Tenuta definitely had better players and he wasn't consistent either. All I'm saying is it would be a mistake to fire Roof now. It would set us back. The talent level of the defense is on the rise thanks to his recruiting. This is not a factory. You can't just start from scratch, and that's where Groh left us, and be good. It takes some time here. If you're firing a coach every three or four years we'll never get there.
Click to expand...
I get somewhat where you are coming from, but to say it would set us back is a little far fetch, there are many coaches out there who could set us up for success. Do you think if we hired a guy like don brown we would be set back? That's just a crazy statement to make without knowing who we would even hire. And although roof might know other schemes that doesn't mean he can run it as successful as the others that run that specific scheme.
 
PBR549

PBR549

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
837
tech_wreck47 said:
I get somewhat where you are coming from, but to say it would set us back is a little far fetch, there are many coaches out there who could set us up for success. Do you think if we hired a guy like don brown we would be set back? That's just a crazy statement to make without knowing who we would even hire. And although roof might know other schemes that doesn't mean he can run it as successful as the others that run that specific scheme.
Click to expand...
I don't know Don Brown personally or enough about him as a coach. I do believe that at this point consistency of staff and recruiting is just as important as scheme.
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Tenuta was a damn good coach and got the most out of the talent he had IMO. I also think he often beat opposition with much more talent and depth than he himself possessed. (What is a better mark of a damn good coach?) That said I think Tenuta enjoyed much more talent and depth than Roof has had at his disposal thus far. Ya Roof has had guys make it into the league, which is great. But we tend to have one or two studs max on that side of the ball any given year during his tenure. Gotsis was a stud as a senior IMO. AJ Gray will be a stud. But they weren't studs at the same time on the same team (and Gotsis probably had to play out of position and was injured mid season to boot). Teams like Clemson and Bama have studs at each position group nearly every year. We haven't come close to that luxury.

Money talks and BS walks however. If the D doesn't progress under Roof it is likely he and CPJ will both be looking for new homes sooner or later. Fans always are too impatient though. They see team X make a huge jump in one year with a new hire and think their team should be able to do the same. They never see the minutia that allowed it to happen and forget about team X when that success isn't sustained. It takes more than 4 years to build a program and can take more than 4 to get a problem in the program fixed. I think Roof inherited a mess on that side of the ball. I think we are making great strides in improving talent and depth on D. I think results will begin to show this year and should continue to improve in time. I just hope the AD allows CPJ and Roof the time to get it done.
 
Milwaukee

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Whiskey_Clear said:
Tenuta was a damn good coach and got the most out of the talent he had IMO. I also think he often beat opposition with much more talent and depth than he himself possessed. (What is a better mark of a damn good coach?) That said I think Tenuta enjoyed much more talent and depth than Roof has had at his disposal thus far. Ya Roof has had guys make it into the league, which is great. But we tend to have one or two studs max on that side of the ball any given year during his tenure. Gotsis was a stud as a senior IMO. AJ Gray will be a stud. But they weren't studs at the same time on the same team (and Gotsis probably had to play out of position and was injured mid season to boot). Teams like Clemson and Bama have studs at each position group nearly every year. We haven't come close to that luxury.

Money talks and BS walks however. If the D doesn't progress under Roof it is likely he and CPJ will both be looking for new homes sooner or later. Fans always are too impatient though. They see team X make a huge jump in one year with a new hire and think their team should be able to do the same. They never see the minutia that allowed it to happen and forget about team X when that success isn't sustained. It takes more than 4 years to build a program and can take more than 4 to get a problem in the program fixed. I think Roof inherited a mess on that side of the ball. I think we are making great strides in improving talent and depth on D. I think results will begin to show this year and should continue to improve in time. I just hope the AD allows CPJ and Roof the time to get it done.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,778
Musing out loud, wonder what insight some may have on the following two data points. (1) Al Groh was said to have been (by his coaching peers) one of the five best defensive coordinators in modern football. Did he just get senile while at Tech? Does Tech do that to coaches?

(2) Bud Carson is also said to have been one of the best defensive coordinators of all time. When he left Tech he built the famed steel curtain defense for the Pittsburgh Steelers. How did his defenses rank at Tech and why?

Not trying to make any particular point, just truly interested in anyone's insight they might have.
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
@Northeast Stinger

Interesting points. As to Groh, I still don't know exactly how that all fell to crap. I thought at the time it would be a good fit. I dismissed fears that a 3-4 D front would be tougher to pull off at Tech and in hindsight it looks like those fears were well founded. That's only part of it though and I really don't have a good answer.

I wasn't around for the Carson era and I'm no historian. But I think expectations established by earlier regimes had created very high expectations. I think those expectations led to a lack of patience. Those expectations were also primarily forged in single platoon football days that did not continue for Tech after the transition to two platoon football. No doubt Bud was a great defensive coach though. Before, during, and after his time at Tech. I always thought he would have been successful if given more time.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
8,839
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Tenuta did well by having an aggressive, attacking defense. He was excellent at disguising where the blitz was coming from. They knew it was coming, just not from where. His defenses were suceptible to the short passing games, and teams (read: BC/Matt Ryan) would dink and dunk us to death. This was a problem because overly-conservative Chan couldn't score. I think a Johnson/Tenuta combination in 2008/2009 would have been a devastating combination against our schedule. Unfortunately, it seemed like there was too much ego involved.
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Mmmmm...to my recollection I don't think short passing games gave Tenuta's Ds more trouble than other schemes. Matt Ryan gave us more trouble than most any other QB during Tenuta's tenure no doubt. I think that was more of a singular incident than typical result.

There were a very few games we got burned during Tenuta. It was not the norm by any means. I'd love to have a few of those games where we held O's to less than 50....or even minus yards rushing, due to TFLs and sacks. Those were more of a norm IMO than getting burned by short passes.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,150
PBR549 said:
You have you're mind made up. I think you're wrong. There are a lot of good schemes. You can understand more than one. Again it's not rocket science. You do what you believe in. Roof and others know exactly what Tenuta does scheme wise. Tenuta definitely had better players and he wasn't consistent either. All I'm saying is it would be a mistake to fire Roof now. It would set us back. The talent level of the defense is on the rise thanks to his recruiting. This is not a factory. You can't just start from scratch, and that's where Groh left us, and be good. It takes some time here. If you're firing a coach every three or four years we'll never get there.
Click to expand...
Do you have your mind made up? I should probably let this die, but I'm a little hard headed (so my wife tells me sometimes).

How can both of the bolded statements above be true??? Tenuta had better players, but Roof has us better at defensive recruiting now. Tenuta (and Chan) had to deal with a complete overhaul of the coaching staff (which you keep saying would set us back) - did it set them back? CPJ was also a complete overhaul to the coaching staff and system - did it set him back with the offensive production? They also had to deal with flunkgate - They lose Kengi McNair - starting LB, Tony Hargrove - an NFL talent starting DE, Alfred Malone - a starting DT, Travis Parker - another starting DE/DT. This is after the coaching change which caused a terrible recruiting year in Chan's first recruiting cycle (he continued to coach the Dolphins through the playoffs, and got a very late start). It's also in the middle of a certain coach's tenure as Recruiting Coordinator, that most say was awful. He certainly didn't have a ton of his guys go to the league - pretty much comparable to what we have now and what we've always had - 0-3 in any given draft cycle. In his first year here, we were ranked around 50th, and then we were anywhere from 10th-29th every year thereafter.

I do think recruiting has been trending up, and I think Roof is a big contributor to that. But, doesn't this also serve as an indictment against him if the production isn't there (or if it doesn't get there at least in the next 2 years).

I think the question that has been posed to you is a good one. What would it take to convince you that Roof isn't the answer as DC? I can answer the inverse of that on my end. All it would take to convince me that he is the answer is bringing our defense into the top 40 in reasonable defensive metrics such as ppd and ypp.

Once again, I'm pulling for Coach Roof. The best thing that could happen to GT is for Ted Roof to find great success here as a defensive coordinator. I am not totally skeptical that this can happen. But, the data must and will tell the story.
 
PBR549

PBR549

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
837
vamosjackets said:
Do you have your mind made up? I should probably let this die, but I'm a little hard headed (so my wife tells me sometimes).

How can both of the bolded statements above be true??? Tenuta had better players, but Roof has us better at defensive recruiting now. Tenuta (and Chan) had to deal with a complete overhaul of the coaching staff (which you keep saying would set us back) - did it set them back? CPJ was also a complete overhaul to the coaching staff and system - did it set him back with the offensive production? They also had to deal with flunkgate - They lose Kengi McNair - starting LB, Tony Hargrove - an NFL talent starting DE, Alfred Malone - a starting DT, Travis Parker - another starting DE/DT. This is after the coaching change which caused a terrible recruiting year in Chan's first recruiting cycle (he continued to coach the Dolphins through the playoffs, and got a very late start). It's also in the middle of a certain coach's tenure as Recruiting Coordinator, that most say was awful. He certainly didn't have a ton of his guys go to the league - pretty much comparable to what we have now and what we've always had - 0-3 in any given draft cycle. In his first year here, we were ranked around 50th, and then we were anywhere from 10th-29th every year thereafter.

I do think recruiting has been trending up, and I think Roof is a big contributor to that. But, doesn't this also serve as an indictment against him if the production isn't there (or if it doesn't get there at least in the next 2 years).

I think the question that has been posed to you is a good one. What would it take to convince you that Roof isn't the answer as DC? I can answer the inverse of that on my end. All it would take to convince me that he is the answer is bringing our defense into the top 40 in reasonable defensive metrics such as ppd and ypp.

Once again, I'm pulling for Coach Roof. The best thing that could happen to GT is for Ted Roof to find great success here as a defensive coordinator. I am not totally skeptical that this can happen. But, the data must and will tell the story.
Click to expand...
I'm not opposed to evaluating Roof in 2 more years. Heck, coaches are evaluated on a game by game basis. My initial response in this thread was merely to say to the poster that he isn't giving Roof a fair chance because of what seems to be something personal.

As far as the two statements on recruiting I'm saying Roof has gotten us back on track from the previous two defensive coordinators who left us bare. As far as Tenuta at his best with Tech he had much better talent than we've had the last three years.

When Chan was fired, which I opposed by the way, he left us pretty well stocked with players and we were able to do okay offensively. Defense on the other hand took a nosedive as far as talent was concerned with the removal of two defensive coordinators. Roof has us headed back in the right direction. Pulling the plug now would in my opinion send us in a tailspin that would in all likelihood cost but CPJ his job. He knows that.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,150
PBR549 said:
I'm not opposed to evaluating Roof in 2 more years. Heck, coaches are evaluated on a game by game basis. My initial response in this thread was merely to say to the poster that he isn't giving Roof a fair chance because of what seems to be something personal.

As far as the two statements on recruiting I'm saying Roof has gotten us back on track from the previous two defensive coordinators who left us bare. As far as Tenuta at his best with Tech he had much better talent than we've had the last three years.

When Chan was fired, which I opposed by the way, he left us pretty well stocked with players and we were able to do okay offensively. Defense on the other hand took a nosedive as far as talent was concerned with the removal of two defensive coordinators. Roof has us headed back in the right direction. Pulling the plug now would in my opinion send us in a tailspin that would in all likelihood cost but CPJ his job. He knows that.
Click to expand...
Fair response. I agree somewhat though not fully, but I see and understand your reasons.
 
PBR549

PBR549

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
837
vamosjackets said:
Fair response. I agree somewhat though not fully, but I see and understand your reasons.
Click to expand...
We all want to be better on defense especially Roof but you have to have some depth and while we're building on it we're not there yet. Again, recruiting and continuity of staff is more important than scheme at this point in my opinion.
 
Top