Interesting game of the past - 2004 UConn

[vamosjackets]

I believe we have a sound scheme. Will we have enough personnel to be good at it? That remains to be seen but it's the same with any scheme. When you're consistently trying to out scheme someone with inferior personnel you'll never be consistent. I'll use our offense last year as an example.
We have a unique set of circumstances at Tech. We don't get the kids that Georgia, Clemson, Miami and Florida State etc. get. That's been well documented but we've been pretty consistent with our offensive scheme. The defensive coordinators here during the Johnson era have been a crapshoot. We have Roof now who brings the kind of advantages to our team that I listed above. I think fans are often misguided when trying to understand what a coach and teams problem's are. Go back and look at coaches who have been here and for the most part even the successful ones have been inconsistent.

The most important factors in being as successful as we can be in my opinion is recruiting the best players we can considering our circumstances and consistency of coaching staff.

Firing coaches, changing schemes etc. only makes us more inconsistent.

Hey, I'm a Tech fan and also have a unique perspective of having a professional relationship with not only Roof but many other coaches. I don't love all of them for sure. I want to win period and Ted is a top notch football coach who is a better recruiter than anyone I've seen recruit in over 30 years. When someone attacks Roof's scheme I feel like they are misinformed. He can scheme with anyone.

Fans and coaches themselves put too much stock in this coach is better than that coach. For the most part the good coaches know what every other coach knows. The coaches who are hired in areas of responsibilities like coordinators in college programs and even big high school programs head coaches and coordinators understand schemes and work tirelessly on how to attack them and how to adjust them. Nobody is surprised anymore. It's all been done.

I believe some schemes are better than others, don't you? Do you not think that Johnson's scheme is better than Chan's? I also believe that some coaches are better than others, don't you? Roof does not understand Tenuta's schemes. Most wouldn't, they're pretty unique. They're a little more prevalent now than they were back in '04 because there have been some copy cats. I'm not saying that as a knock on Roof. It's a matter of what you've been brought up in and have the experience in running. Dabo Swinney might "understand" Johnson's scheme, but he doesn't understand it like Johnson does and all of the nuances of it, just like a podiatrist might "understand" the work of a gynecologist, but he wouldn't understand it in such a way as to be truly successful at it. Johnson would not be successful running some other scheme because he doesn't have that true understanding of them that only comes from being immersed in it. Tenuta wouldn't be successful running Roof's scheme for the same reason. Roof's scheme is what it is because it's in his DNA, it's what he knows and has experienced. I'm not saying it isn't sound. It probably is "sound". I'm saying, what gives our athletes the best chance at success? All it takes is looking at the numbers to know the answer. Top 30 vs Bottom 40? Easy answer. A look at the game film confirms it. Which do you think it's easier to play against as an offensive player? One where the guys are lined up in the exact formation you know they're going to play at the snap or one where you can't tell what they're going to do at the snap? Roof's scheme might work better at a factory, and you could say the same about Chan's scheme. You can't say that Roof is a better recruiter and then say he has worse personnel than Tenuta had - that's arguing out of both sides of your mouth. Roof doesn't have worse personnel than Tenuta according to the recruiting rankings. He's had some major horses on that side of the ball, and we've still been bad (so far). If you want to talk about inconsistency of even successful coaches, then you're just going to go around in circles, because no coach wins them all. It's a matter of the track record and overall body of work. It's kind of like this: we think Johnson's scheme and how well he's able to coach it is an advantage for us because it's harder to defend than more conventional schemes. So, why do we think a conventional scheme is going to work on the other side of the ball???? Why do we think we're going to be better defensively than our competition when we're running the same thing they are while they have all of the recruiting advantages? That was CPJ's argument to DRad that got him hired. And, there is no flaw in that argument.

I do think Roof has a LOT of value as a coach, I really do, but I don't think that value is in scheme. I really like Roof and would LOVE for him to succeed here. I can be easily convinced, like AE87 said - it's about production - get us in the top 40 this year, and I'm there. I am not against him. I have my doubts as to whether he can do it due to the scheme stuff I talked about earlier, but if he does, I'll gladly jump to the other side of this discussion.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I believe some schemes are better than others, don't you? Do you not think that Johnson's scheme is better than Chan's? I also believe that some coaches are better than others, don't you? Roof does not understand Tenuta's schemes. Most wouldn't, they're pretty unique. They're a little more prevalent now than they were back in '04 because there have been some copy cats. I'm not saying that as a knock on Roof. It's a matter of what you've been brought up in and have the experience in running. Dabo Swinney might "understand" Johnson's scheme, but he doesn't understand it like Johnson does and all of the nuances of it, just like a podiatrist might "understand" the work of a gynecologist, but he wouldn't understand it in such a way as to be truly successful at it. Johnson would not be successful running some other scheme because he doesn't have that true understanding of them that only comes from being immersed in it. Tenuta wouldn't be successful running Roof's scheme for the same reason. Roof's scheme is what it is because it's in his DNA, it's what he knows and has experienced. I'm not saying it isn't sound. It probably is "sound". I'm saying, what gives our athletes the best chance at success? All it takes is looking at the numbers to know the answer. Top 30 vs Bottom 40? Easy answer. A look at the game film confirms it. Which do you think it's easier to play against as an offensive player? One where the guys are lined up in the exact formation you know they're going to play at the snap or one where you can't tell what they're going to do at the snap? Roof's scheme might work better at a factory, and you could say the same about Chan's scheme. You can't say that Roof is a better recruiter and then say he has worse personnel than Tenuta had - that's arguing out of both sides of your mouth. Roof doesn't have worse personnel than Tenuta according to the recruiting rankings. He's had some major horses on that side of the ball, and we've still been bad (so far). If you want to talk about inconsistency of even successful coaches, then you're just going to go around in circles, because no coach wins them all. It's a matter of the track record and overall body of work. It's kind of like this: we think Johnson's scheme and how well he's able to coach it is an advantage for us because it's harder to defend than more conventional schemes. So, why do we think a conventional scheme is going to work on the other side of the ball???? Why do we think we're going to be better defensively than our competition when we're running the same thing they are while they have all of the recruiting advantages? That was CPJ's argument to DRad that got him hired. And, there is no flaw in that argument.

I do think Roof has a LOT of value as a coach, I really do, but I don't think that value is in scheme. I really like Roof and would LOVE for him to succeed here. I can be easily convinced, like AE87 said - it's about production - get us in the top 40 this year, and I'm there. I am not against him. I have my doubts as to whether he can do it due to the scheme stuff I talked about earlier, but if he does, I'll gladly jump to the other side of this discussion.

At times I don't think anyone can be successful running the type of D coach roof runs unless you have Alabama type talent on D, it's just so simple and predictable at times. Also for what it's worth I think most any D coordinator could run our D just because it's not very complicated, and if you have knowledge of a defense in general you should be able to run what we run imo. I believe we need to start running something different on D if we want to be successful on the side of the ball.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

At times I don't think anyone can be successful running the type of D coach roof runs unless you have Alabama type talent on D, it's just so simple and predictable at times. Also for what it's worth I think most any D coordinator could run our D just because it's not very complicated, and if you have knowledge of a defense in general you should be able to run what we run imo. I believe we need to start running something different on D if we want to be successful on the side of the ball.

Completely agree with this. If I could describe our D under roof it would be "vanilla."

I also think a portion of our fans have a soft spot for Roof, regardless of his coaching ability/stats, because he's a GT guy.

 

[Milwaukee]

Roof understands everything Tenuta does. It's not rocket science. Defense is about speed and Jimmys and Joes. You can disguise all you want, you can blitz all you want and you can be on the edge of soundness with as an aggressive scheme all you want but other coaches are not dummies. People play a personnel game. If you have a weak link or links they will find them regardless of scheme. Can Roof be more aggressive? Obviously yes. Will it make us better on defense? Not in Roof's judgement, which I trust, with the personnel he's had the last couple of years but maybe in the future if our personnel gets better. Do fans want more aggressive schemes? Yep always do. " If you listen to the fans you'll soon be sitting with them" according to CPJ.

I love Jon Tenuta' s coaching ability but he's not here. Plus Roof has many advantages that Tenuta' doesn't have.

I love Ted Roof's coaching ability, recruiting, love for Tech, relationship he has with players and HS coaches and the fact he's our defensive coordinator. Ted has that ability to show kids he cares about them as individuals and they respond to that. We get kids we would not have a chance to get if any other coach besides Ted recruited them. He just has that ability and genuineness.

I feel like you have a personal grudge against Roof which is okay if you do. We all want to win football games but getting rid of Roof is not in our best interest in my opinion which I believe is a uniquely informed one.

Roof's recruiting? Where and what do you love about that? Please give me examples and results, not just one per season.

Disclaimer: no grudge against Roof at all, he's a decent to solid coach.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Roof understands everything Tenuta does. It's not rocket science. Defense is about speed and Jimmys and Joes. You can disguise all you want, you can blitz all you want and you can be on the edge of soundness with as an aggressive scheme all you want but other coaches are not dummies. People play a personnel game. If you have a weak link or links they will find them regardless of scheme. Can Roof be more aggressive? Obviously yes. Will it make us better on defense? Not in Roof's judgement, which I trust, with the personnel he's had the last couple of years but maybe in the future if our personnel gets better. Do fans want more aggressive schemes? Yep always do. " If you listen to the fans you'll soon be sitting with them" according to CPJ.

I love Jon Tenuta' s coaching ability but he's not here. Plus Roof has many advantages that Tenuta' doesn't have.

I love Ted Roof's coaching ability, recruiting, love for Tech, relationship he has with players and HS coaches and the fact he's our defensive coordinator. Ted has that ability to show kids he cares about them as individuals and they respond to that. We get kids we would not have a chance to get if any other coach besides Ted recruited them. He just has that ability and genuineness.

I feel like you have a personal grudge against Roof which is okay if you do. We all want to win football games but getting rid of Roof is not in our best interest in my opinion which I believe is a uniquely informed one.

I mean no disrespect, but defense is about a lot more than just speed and jimmys and joes. It's about scheming against the offense you are going against (I'm talking about a game plan when is say scheming, not the type of D) it's about knowing how to work to your players strength, this is something that Dan Quinn of the Falcons is big on, working to what best fits the player, because you can have a scheme all you want but if you are not playing to a players strength he will not play as well, and yes coaches do not always play to their players strengths because they might not know how to recognize their strength. Defense is about technique, stunts and yes Roof more than likely knows all the stuff Tenuta know, but that does not mean he knows how to execute that style of Defense, I'm not even saying we should run the style of D Tenuta runs or that he's a better coach than roof. I'm just pointing out that even though two coaches might have the same knowledge doesn't mean the both can coach at the same level some coaches scheme better, and play call better and can read and tell what an offense is doing better so he's able to make those right play calls on when to blitz and how to stunt to an offenses weakness. Don brown is a prime example on how to coach a defense, and someone who knows how to scheme and play call.

 

[Milwaukee]

On another note:

Isn't this the year they had Caulley and Brockington at RB? They also had 2 nasty linebackers IIRC.

Not a bad UCONN squad, lots of talent.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

One tidbit from that game. I took a younger friend with me and his date that had graduated from UConn. She was not that much of a football fan, but was a tremendous Boston Red Sox fan. At half time, they honored the 1994 baseball team that made the CWS championship game. Varitek and Garciaparra were on the field, both of whom had played for Boston. She almost had an orgasm and became a Tech fan when she found out they had both played for us.

GREAT story. Having lived in the Boston area for a while I can attest they love them some Varitek and Garciaparra.

 

[vamosjackets]

Let me try my best to be fair and balanced (impossible though it is). I think Roof is probably better than Tenuta at 5 very significant things.
1. I think he's very good at studying opponent film and knowing what's coming. And, I think he gets his players to do that too. There have been several plays where you can tell film study led to a great GT play.
2. I think he is a very valuable recruiter for both individual players and for entire schools/areas.
3. I think he's a better shaper of men. I think he has a very positive influence on his players as men. I value this a lot.
4. I think he inspires camaraderie in the locker room and coaching staff. Hard to put a value on this.
5. I think he inspires his players to play with great toughness and heart. The thought of them quitting or slacking off at all in effort has never entered my mind when watching his defenses play.

I think all of these things actually make up for a lot of the lack of scheming advantages to where the defense at times plays above the potential of the scheme. The 2014 turnover-squad was an example of this. Plus the defense gave us a chance to win some big games last year where the offense didn't come through.

These things also make a sound argument for keeping Roof (or even preferring Roof to someone like Tenuta). However, the production isn't there, it's pretty much impossible to argue against production. And, it just keeps you imagining what CPJ's Georgia Tech legacy could be if he were paired with an equally productive defense (the main ingredient of which I believe to be the DC).

 

[tech_wreck47]

Let me try my best to be fair and balanced (impossible though it is). I think Roof is probably better than Tenuta at 5 very significant things.
1. I think he's very good at studying opponent film and knowing what's coming. And, I think he gets his players to do that too. There have been several plays where you can tell film study led to a great GT play.
2. I think he is a very valuable recruiter for both individual players and for entire schools/areas.
3. I think he's a better shaper of men. I think he has a very positive influence on his players as men. I value this a lot.
4. I think he inspires camaraderie in the locker room and coaching staff. Hard to put a value on this.
5. I think he inspires his players to play with great toughness and heart. The thought of them quitting or slacking off at all in effort has never entered my mind when watching his defenses play.

I think all of these things actually make up for a lot of the lack of scheming advantages to where the defense at times plays above the potential of the scheme. The 2014 turnover-squad was an example of this. Plus the defense gave us a chance to win some big games last year where the offense didn't come through.

These things also make a sound argument for keeping Roof (or even preferring Roof to someone like Tenuta). However, the production isn't there, it's pretty much impossible to argue against production. And, it just keeps you imagining what CPJ's Georgia Tech legacy could be if he were paired with an equally productive defense (the main ingredient of which I believe to be the DC).

Your last comment is the main thing that gets to me, imagine if we had a top 25 D how much better of a consistent team we could be. I would say 10 win seasons would be the norm.

 

[vamosjackets]

On another note:

Isn't this the year they had Caulley and Brockington at RB? They also had 2 nasty linebackers IIRC.

Not a bad UCONN squad, lots of talent.

Their QB had darn good numbers coming into the game as well.

 

[Frenchise]

Jeez...Ball had a cannon.

 

[Milwaukee]

Their QB had darn good numbers coming into the game as well.

Was Orlovsky playing then? He was a beast.

 

[FightWinDrink]

Was Orlovsky playing then? He was a beast.

Yes it was his last year in college. Drafted in 05

http://espn.go.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=243180059

 

[MWBATL]

Just curious, but hasn't Tenuta pretty well washed out everywhere he's been since his GT days? I recall he was coaching at UVa and we had no trouble with his defense there.

While I too loved his schemes at GT and remember his defenses fondly, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire since. This leaves me wondering if he simply had better athletes available? Didn't we have a couple of LB's who went to be NFL starters?. And I remember CPJ's first year at Tech we were loaded with defensive talent.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Roof's D is a joke when compared to Tenuta here at GT.

JT with this same personnel produces a better D IMO. Top 20 maybe not, but not bottom 1/3 in the NCAA and def top 40 or so; way more consistent. JT knew how to mess with the OL schemes and get a ton of TFL and spill runs outside. What Vamos is talking about big stickin the end to spill the runner is a small way of doing this and he would blitz on the opposite side freeing the playside end or overload the playside. The line slides always were too slow.

I digress. Our schemes are high school simple now. No disguise. No ingenuity. Nothing. Its pedestrian; and worst yet sometimes the backend action doesn't match what he is trying to do up front. Which gets me even more SMDH

anyway, I am rooting to Ted to improve. Really. I am. But I doubt he can...his track record as DC is just not stellar. Just an hoe hum avg NCAA DC. If the D this year is worse than last I think the guy is a goner....especially if we are a 5 win team

And Tenuta had a hissy fit and quit GT when he didn't get the head job after Chan got fired. Don't let the door hitcha, dude. He was so good at ND, Kelly chose not to retain him after Weis was fired. Hmmmmm...... In fact, he's on his 3rd DC gig since leaving GT.

 

[AE 87]

Tenuta's Def ppd v psr5 after GT
ND
2008 1.82, #35
2009 2.27, #56
NCSU
2010 1.69, #16
2011 1.90, #31
2012 1.81, #26
UVA
2013 2.43, #59
2014 1.67, #9
2015 2.45, #53

His final year at each place corresponded to firing of HC.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Tenuta's Def ppd v psr5 after GT
ND
2008 1.82, #35
2009 2.27, #56
NCSU
2010 1.69, #16
2011 1.90, #31
2012 1.81, #26
UVA
2013 2.43, #59
2014 1.67, #9
2015 2.45, #53

His final year at each place corresponded to firing of HC.

What do you make of that?

 

[PBR549]

That's a long reply without responding directly.

Bottom Line: I don't think you understand my question.

Our offense is consistent. In pts per drive versus pwr 5, we have averaged #6 in the nation over CPJs time at Tech. Before last year, it was #4. When you consider that we're never in the top 10 in recruiting and in the top 30 once in the last 10 years, that's more than impressive. Having one off year now and again because of injuries/chemistry doesn't mean the scheme is inconsistent when it drastically outpaces talent rankings.

Second, BC recruits worse than us on average but had arguably the best D in FBS last year, and darn good for a few years. So, it's not true that D is different than O in the potential impact of good coordinators and scheme.

So, forgive me but it seems like you are stomping your foot and repeating yourself. I appreciate your fondness for Roof, but my question remains whether there is any performance on the field, or lack thereof, which could change your mind.

I don't disagree that the offense out performs our talent level but I also believe It's hard to stay consistent and last year is an example of that . Hey it's a fact of life that you have to perform as a coach or you're gone. My point is at Tech it is harder to be consistent and every coach we've ever had has proved that. If Roof can't get our defense to that level it will not change my opinion of him as a coach and he will land on his feet somewhere else like good coaches do. If that happens it will be a set back for Tech.

 

[jeffgt14]

While I do personally believe Tenuta could bring more production on defense here I will say I believe he had better athletes and more depth than Roof has and the one knock I always had against Tenuta is he always seemed to get lit up by a great QB or a great TE. My definition of lit is probably a bit inflated though because at the time I had high expectations because I knew our offense wouldn’t score anything so giving up more than 20 points was unexceptable.

 

[PBR549]

I believe some schemes are better than others, don't you? Do you not think that Johnson's scheme is better than Chan's? I also believe that some coaches are better than others, don't you? Roof does not understand Tenuta's schemes. Most wouldn't, they're pretty unique. They're a little more prevalent now than they were back in '04 because there have been some copy cats. I'm not saying that as a knock on Roof. It's a matter of what you've been brought up in and have the experience in running. Dabo Swinney might "understand" Johnson's scheme, but he doesn't understand it like Johnson does and all of the nuances of it, just like a podiatrist might "understand" the work of a gynecologist, but he wouldn't understand it in such a way as to be truly successful at it. Johnson would not be successful running some other scheme because he doesn't have that true understanding of them that only comes from being immersed in it. Tenuta wouldn't be successful running Roof's scheme for the same reason. Roof's scheme is what it is because it's in his DNA, it's what he knows and has experienced. I'm not saying it isn't sound. It probably is "sound". I'm saying, what gives our athletes the best chance at success? All it takes is looking at the numbers to know the answer. Top 30 vs Bottom 40? Easy answer. A look at the game film confirms it. Which do you think it's easier to play against as an offensive player? One where the guys are lined up in the exact formation you know they're going to play at the snap or one where you can't tell what they're going to do at the snap? Roof's scheme might work better at a factory, and you could say the same about Chan's scheme. You can't say that Roof is a better recruiter and then say he has worse personnel than Tenuta had - that's arguing out of both sides of your mouth. Roof doesn't have worse personnel than Tenuta according to the recruiting rankings. He's had some major horses on that side of the ball, and we've still been bad (so far). If you want to talk about inconsistency of even successful coaches, then you're just going to go around in circles, because no coach wins them all. It's a matter of the track record and overall body of work. It's kind of like this: we think Johnson's scheme and how well he's able to coach it is an advantage for us because it's harder to defend than more conventional schemes. So, why do we think a conventional scheme is going to work on the other side of the ball???? Why do we think we're going to be better defensively than our competition when we're running the same thing they are while they have all of the recruiting advantages? That was CPJ's argument to DRad that got him hired. And, there is no flaw in that argument.

I do think Roof has a LOT of value as a coach, I really do, but I don't think that value is in scheme. I really like Roof and would LOVE for him to succeed here. I can be easily convinced, like AE87 said - it's about production - get us in the top 40 this year, and I'm there. I am not against him. I have my doubts as to whether he can do it due to the scheme stuff I talked about earlier, but if he does, I'll gladly jump to the other side of this discussion.

You have you're mind made up. I think you're wrong. There are a lot of good schemes. You can understand more than one. Again it's not rocket science. You do what you believe in. Roof and others know exactly what Tenuta does scheme wise. Tenuta definitely had better players and he wasn't consistent either. All I'm saying is it would be a mistake to fire Roof now. It would set us back. The talent level of the defense is on the rise thanks to his recruiting. This is not a factory. You can't just start from scratch, and that's where Groh left us, and be good. It takes some time here. If you're firing a coach every three or four years we'll never get there.