Institutionalized Takes

[Longestday]

Not many coaches wanted to have their name attached to the results that were destined to come in replacing CPJs offense with a more NFL friendly offense.

Not many coaches wanted to replace Collins NFL friendly offense... because GT is not a place you go to build your reputation (due to more risk)

The big donors most likely did the same thing they did this time (as well as with Roof)... pushed Collins because he is a "Tech guy". Stan just rolled over much easier/quicker.

 

[RonJohn]

Not many coaches wanted to replace Collins NFL friendly offense... because GT is not a place you go to build your reputation (due to more risk)

The big donors most likely did the same thing they did this time (as well as with Roof)... pushed Collins because he is a "Tech guy". Stan just rolled over much easier/quicker.

I have a much more optimistic outlook. Much of this post is based on rumor and supposition, instead of facts that I know to be true.

If Key's contract is heavily based on incentives and the buyout drops off in three years, then let's look at the worst case scenario. We spend three years in a similar situation as we have for the past four. After three years, J Batt has diversified fund raising for GT. Key's buyout drops off, and Collins contract is completely paid. We have more money and no lingering buyouts to cover, so we can go after a high level coach with money waiting to pay him.

Let's look at better case scenarios. Key gets the team to 10 wins and at this point next year is preparing the team to play in the ACCCG and then play in a NY6 bowl game. If all those incentives mean that Key will be paid $3.5-5 million, I don't think that it will be an issue to raise that money under those circumstances.

Maybe it is only hope that we will be in the second scenario, but I think that scenario is more likely than the first. I think the overall scenario makes Key the perfect hire at this point. Fans are behind him. The players are behind him. His risk is low enough that GT can cover it, and his potential ceiling is high.

 

[bobongo]

I have a much more optimistic outlook. Much of this post is based on rumor and supposition, instead of facts that I know to be true.

If Key's contract is heavily based on incentives and the buyout drops off in three years, then let's look at the worst case scenario. We spend three years in a similar situation as we have for the past four. After three years, J Batt has diversified fund raising for GT. Key's buyout drops off, and Collins contract is completely paid. We have more money and no lingering buyouts to cover, so we can go after a high level coach with money waiting to pay him.

Let's look at better case scenarios. Key gets the team to 10 wins and at this point next year is preparing the team to play in the ACCCG and then play in a NY6 bowl game. If all those incentives mean that Key will be paid $3.5-5 million, I don't think that it will be an issue to raise that money under those circumstances.

Maybe it is only hope that we will be in the second scenario, but I think that scenario is more likely than the first. I think the overall scenario makes Key the perfect hire at this point. Fans are behind him. The players are behind him. His risk is low enough that GT can cover it, and his potential ceiling is high.

I think you've summed up the advantages of hiring Key well.
Compare your worst scenario to the worst scenario if Batt hired a high maintenance coach who bombed. That would be a disaster. I think he ended up making the right choice, even if it wasn't his first choice.
I think Key was the best choice all around, and I agree your second scenario is far more likely than the first, although it might take a few years to get there.

 

[takethepoints]

FWIW, even though I am a huge option fan, I am not sure plugging in Bohannon or Monken would equate to CPJs success here. There's a considerable drop off between the master and his disciples. We wouldn't be the 3 win team we were, but we'd probably have had at least one losing season in the last 4 and maybe even two.

I get that moving away from the CPJ version of the option made sense, I just don't think TStan had a plan on how to do it.

If it was Moncken I doubt there would have been any drop-off. I just looked. For rushing here's Army's rank for the years we lost: 2019 - 3, 2020 - 5, 2021 - 2, 2022 - 2. They went to three bowl games in this time: 2019 - Armed Forces Army 70 - Houston 14, 2020 - Liberty Army 21 - WVU - 24, 2021 - Armed Forces Army 24 - Missouri 22. In their last 5 bowl games with Mocken at HC, they won 4 and lost 1. And he would have been stepping in to a team with either Oliver or Graham at QB, The Two-Headed Monster at BB, Cottrell and either Smith or Malloy at AB, and Carter and Camp at WR.

I don't think Moncken or Bohannon would have had much trouble winning with that kind of lineup. But we'll never know, unfortunately. Any more then we'll ever know if moving away from the spread option made sense. Too bad, that.

 

[takethepoints]

Let's look at better case scenarios. Key gets the team to 10 wins and at this point a couple of years from now and is preparing the team to play in the ACCCG and then play in a NY6 bowl game. If all those incentives mean that Key will be paid $3.5-5 million, I don't think that it will be an issue to raise that money under those circumstances.

Maybe it is only hope that we will be in the second scenario, but I think that scenario is more likely than the first. I think the overall scenario makes Key the perfect hire at this point. Fans are behind him. The players are behind him. His risk is low enough that GT can cover it, and his potential ceiling is high.

FIFY. Tech could get to 10 wins next year, but I'm holding out for 6 and a minor bowl. Better results will have to await events, but we can get there. It's a matter of work and luck.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

If it was Moncken I doubt there would have been any drop-off. I just looked. For rushing here's Army's rank for the years we lost: 2019 - 3, 2020 - 5, 2021 - 2, 2022 - 2. They went to three bowl games in this time: 2019 - Armed Forces Army 70 - Houston 14, 2020 - Liberty Army 21 - WVU - 24, 2021 - Armed Forces Army 24 - Missouri 22. In their last 5 bowl games with Mocken at HC, they won 4 and lost 1. And he would have been stepping in to a team with either Oliver or Graham at QB, The Two-Headed Monster at BB, Cottrell and either Smith or Malloy at AB, and Carter and Camp at WR.

I don't think Moncken or Bohannon would have had much trouble winning with that kind of lineup. But we'll never know, unfortunately. Any more then we'll ever know if moving away from the spread option made sense. Too bad, that.

So you think Monken is the equal to CPJ? I don't. I actually think Bahannon is probably the better of the two, and he's still not close to CPJ.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

He's said on his podcast he knows of 3 offensive names who want to transfer closer to home and good chances they come to GT and are impact players

That's nice but I would rather have 3 linemen, offense or defense. But that's just me.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I think it's going to be very challenging.

The hiring of Hugh Freeze is an example. John Cohen, Auburn AD, was simply told by one influential booster "Hire Freeze". That's all it took. No search. It was two names and number one said no. Sexual misconduct? Intimidation? No problem. The guy beat Saban twice.

The reality is, almost every program is supported by a few large boosters. The only one I know that is not, is Notre Dame. All donations go to the General Fund and the University makes the decision where it goes.

One new challenge is NIL and bad outcomes. I am already aware of football players using NIL money to pay OTHER students to do their coursework. Imagine an NFL prospect who says to another student, "I'll pay you $10K to write my papers and do my assignments." Have 2 classes with him, and you're making $80K a year.

It's already happening.

The Notre Dame model is the one that makes sense to me. I know this is a minority opinion, in fact, it is likely to be an exclusive opinion but I do not believe football players or athletes at college should be getting paid money beyond their scholarships, books, and other school related expenses.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I don't think the failure was "the boosters". I lay the failure squarely on TStan's shoulders.

Look, he KNEW CPJ was going to retire. This year or next, it was going to happen. (The GTAA had already tried to force CPJ out, so it was common knowledge they were trying to show him the door.)

TStan knew this but ... did nothing. Zip Nada. Zilch.

He could have prepared candidate slates, made introductory calls, starting planning a transition. Instead, what he did was convince himself that his old buddy Ken would ride in and they would have great times together. "So Ken, we shall go to Charlotte together and have bloody adventures. And the great whore will suckle us until we are fat and happy and can suckle no more." Like Proximo and Maximus in Gladiator.

So, we were caught with our pants down, the greatest transition in the history of earth starting us in the face, and TStan marched forth into battle with a squirt gun.

Are you sure he had water in that squirt gun?

 

[takethepoints]

So you think Monken is the equal to CPJ? I don't. I actually think Bahannon is probably the better of the two, and he's still not close to CPJ.

Well … he coached with Paul for 25 years. If Paul didn't think he understood the program, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have lasted that long. But … maybe you're right. And we'll never know because we made a mistake 4 years ago.

Btw, I don't know why I keep making the same mistake with his name. Sheer stupidity is the usual suspect.

 

[Jacket0323]

That's just crazy to me. Who the heck tries to hire a HC by telling them before they even start who they can or can't hire and how to do their job. I don't care what the money or the job is, that's a bad sign and would turn me off immediately. No wonder he said "Yeah no thanks". Only someone really desperate would agree to that.

And a reason none of the big boy schools have even talked to him. There is a certain arrogance that has not been proven at the next level. Serious red flag

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Well … he coached with Paul for 25 years. If Paul didn't think he understood the program, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have lasted that long. But … maybe you're right. And we'll never know because we made a mistake 4 years ago.

Btw, I don't know why I keep making the same mistake with his name. Sheer stupidity is the usual suspect.

To be clear, I think both are excellent coaches and will have stellar careers. I just think that they aren't to the same level as CPJ, and that's probably a loss or two a year. CPJ was struggling to win 7 the last few years, I think our ceiling with either of those two would have been 5-6.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

So you think Monken is the equal to CPJ? I don't. I actually think Bahannon is probably the better of the two, and he's still not close to CPJ.

We did see a bit of a CPJ dropoff in wins once Monken left

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

We did see a bit of a CPJ dropoff in wins once Monken left

Interesting take. Monken took over Army in 2014. CPJ went 11-3 in 2014 without him. 2015 was rough and injury laden, and we won 9 games in 2016.

I'm thinking the drop-off after 2016 was because CPJ failed to land a quality replacement for JeT, not Monken.

 

[jgtengineer]

Interesting take. Monken took over Army in 2014. CPJ went 11-3 in 2014 without him. 2015 was rough and injury laden, and we won 9 games in 2016.

I'm thinking the drop-off after 2016 was because CPJ failed to land a quality replacement for JeT, not Monken.

Bohannon was the bigger loss. Because we didn't have someoen to take over like we did when monken left.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Bohannon was the bigger loss. Because we didn't have someoen to take over like we did when monken left.

I agree. I said above I think Bohannon is the better of the two.

 

[ibeattetris]

So you think Monken is the equal to CPJ? I don't. I actually think Bahannon is probably the better of the two, and he's still not close to CPJ.

I think CPJ shined by making the offense fit his QB. The offense under Nesbitt was different than under Tevin, which was different than Vad and different than JT, etc.

Each iteration of the offense was able to find success (some years not so much of course), but overall he found schemes that fit.

Both and Ken and Monken seem to struggle when they are missing an “it” qb.

 

[Buzztheirazz]

if we had spent the last four years just playing fundamental football and not shooting ourselves in the foot with stupid penalties, turnovers, special teams catastrophes and drops we probably could have had multiple bowl games under collins.

if key just gets us to stop doing stupid things i think we can get back to where paul johnson had us.

You forgot terrible time management and wasted TO’s.

 

[Ibeeballin]

We did see a bit of a CPJ dropoff in wins once Monken left

That wasn’t bc of Monken. The recruiting began to match the results

 

[cthenrys]

That “coaching search” conducted by TFAD wasn’t really a serious search, was it?

And that’s why ADTS is an ex AD….