If you are asking WHY

[Boaty1]

Gailey's last class was his highest rated class by a long shot.

Gailey's last class was before the real arms race in recruiting started. Collins's first class is yet to be signed, and is after the recruiting staff size was doubled.

Collins probably will recruit better in general, even if the extra staff weren't available. However, he will be judged not just by Rivals and ESPN recruiting rankings but by how he is able to use those players. That will depend on how well they are coached. GT still doesn't have a top 15 assistant coaching salary pool. Thacker might turn out to be a top DC, but if he does GT doesn't currently have the money to keep him around. Under CPJ, GT needed money for recruiting and for a top notch DC. Under CGC, GT still needs money for recruiting and needs money to get or retain a top notch DC and OC. As a matter of fact, if CGC is able to turn things around next year or 2021 and finish in the top 10 for a couple of years in a row, GT doesn't have enough money to keep him.

I share your concerns about the financial position of our programs. It is the main concern but I don’t believe there is much we can do about it. Hopefully the ACCN money will provide us a boost but we will always be bottom half of P5 there.

 

[Pointer]

Gailey's last class was his highest rated class by a long shot.

Gailey's last class was before the real arms race in recruiting started. Collins's first class is yet to be signed, and is after the recruiting staff size was doubled.

Collins probably will recruit better in general, even if the extra staff weren't available. However, he will be judged not just by Rivals and ESPN recruiting rankings but by how he is able to use those players. That will depend on how well they are coached. GT still doesn't have a top 15 assistant coaching salary pool. Thacker might turn out to be a top DC, but if he does GT doesn't currently have the money to keep him around. Under CPJ, GT needed money for recruiting and for a top notch DC. Under CGC, GT still needs money for recruiting and needs money to get or retain a top notch DC and OC. As a matter of fact, if CGC is able to turn things around next year or 2021 and finish in the top 10 for a couple of years in a row, GT doesn't have enough money to keep him.

You're making too much sense. Gotta say your posts have been on point.

Id also like to think about if we could somehow have kept DRad from leaving for Clemson. It's no coincidence that Clemson took it to another level after his arrival.

I think this is where GT fans can rejoice. We seem to have an AD who gets it now like DRad did. That gets us more resources and the ability to retain or get new coaches until we get this thing rolling. My original post wasn't intended to seem like CGC has it easier than CPJ did. I merely wanted to point out an issue that no coach can overcome, it's something the AD must fix, and that's already started. I'm pissed at the current state, but I also get it. It's year one and as I've said before, I'm holding final judgement until the end if next year as far as direction goes. I'll be calling to keep or fire CGC after year 3.

In the meantime, there is hope, no matter how hopeless it may seem.

 

[RickStromFan]

Johnson couldn't capitalize on great 2008 and 2009 years in regards to recruiting. He just wasn't a good recruiter. He wouldn't have been a good recruiter running a different offense and the offense he did run didn't appeal to many recruits, especially the top ones. Spending more would have eased the burden a little, but it wouldn't have gotten rid of the other issues in regards to recruiting.

^So much this. The fans who are against CGC refuse to acknowledge that the type of OL and DL that we need now were not flocking to play in PJ's offense (nor defense). It's the main reason we're 1-5.

It's funny - on the one hand, there's an opinion that we need Monken ball because of our talent disadvantage yet in the same breath, that opinion also claims that PJ was a solid recruiter and that talent wasn't an issue. We didn't even have a presence across metro ATL in re: Recruiting during the past decade. How is that considered 'good recruiting'?

 

[ibeattetris]

Johnson couldn't capitalize on great 2008 and 2009 years in regards to recruiting. He just wasn't a good recruiter. He wouldn't have been a good recruiter running a different offense and the offense he did run didn't appeal to many recruits, especially the top ones. Spending more would have eased the burden a little, but it wouldn't have gotten rid of the other issues in regards to recruiting.

How can that be true? 2014 was easily his best year at tech, and that is 5 years after 2009, which would indicate he did capitalize on those years.

 

[BCJacket]

Gailey’s last class was higher than any of Johnson’s. Collins first class will be higher than any of Johnson’s.

It seems pretty clear to me where the problem in terms of recruiting lies. With that said I completely agree with you on the previous AD.

Your statement is technically true (if CGC's class ends up top 40)*. But the implication is not. Gailey's overall recruiting was essentially the same as CPJ, and that's with that one great class boosting his average a ton. The widely believed narrative that CPJ recruited worse than Tech's baseline is simply not true.

Be interesting to see if CGC can really break through, or if the school/budget is determinative. From all the data I've looked at, 90%+ of recruiting is the school 'recruiting itself'. Miami has had great recruiting regardless of the coach, Tennessee has mostly recruited well while being bad... James Franklin had Vandy rolling in the mighty $EC when he was there and his best class was ranked 43rd. (And is a renowned recruiter)

*On pace to be around 30th.

 

[Animal02]

Your statement is technically true (if CGC's class ends up top 40)*. But the implication is not. Gailey's overall recruiting was essentially the same as CPJ, and that's with that one great class boosting his average a ton. The widely believed narrative that CPJ recruited worse than Tech's baseline is simply not true.

Be interesting to see if CGC can really break through, or if the school/budget is determinative. From all the data I've looked at, 90%+ of recruiting is the school 'recruiting itself'. Miami has had great recruiting regardless of the coach, Tennessee has mostly recruited well while being bad... James Franklin had Vandy rolling in the mighty $EC when he was there and his best class was ranked 43rd. (And is a renowned recruiter)

*On pace to be around 30th.

And IMO, it is amazing that CPJ kept that baseline while falling far behind in the $$$ wars. ( Which somewhat proves your point)

 

[Scubapro]

Johnson couldn't capitalize on great 2008 and 2009 years in regards to recruiting. He just wasn't a good recruiter. He wouldn't have been a good recruiter running a different offense and the offense he did run didn't appeal to many recruits, especially the top ones. Spending more would have eased the burden a little, but it wouldn't have gotten rid of the other issues in regards to recruiting.

Just like Ross capitalized in the 1990 success? Or Gailey did from the Acc championship?....oh wait

 

[MWBATL]

And IMO, it is amazing that CPJ kept that baseline while falling far behind in the $$$ wars. ( Which somewhat proves your point)

I believe CPJ was a superb coach of the 3O and that factor kept us competitive with teams who had more talent than we had.

I believe that many talented players chose to ignore GT because of the 3O offense, whether we like it or not. It was also something many others disliked, in the fan base and amongst big dollar donors. It may not always have been logical, but the criticism of "high school offense" hurt, and the idea that we had to use a gimmick to compete was insulting to some. Just mho.

I worry that we will never be able to compete in recruiting with the big boys of college football for a myriad of reasons, ranging from academics to funding of the program. I do believe CPJ was hamstrung by the funding, but I also believe his offense had limited appeal among young athletes. I doubt many among us can judge which factor was the bigger in terms of the relatively poor recruiting we had.

I am concerned about what the solution is to those issues. I don't see us magically raising enough money to start competing at the highest level for recruits. I don't see the Administration bending any policies to make things easier for athletics at GT to any significant degree.

I remember being killed by a mediocre/decent Minnesota team in the bowl game last year and the disparity along the line of scrimmage was noticeable and severe. That was a harbinger of things to come this year.

Overall, I think trying a radically different approach was and is worth a shot. If that doesn't work, I am not sure where to go next....good thing I'm not our AD.

 

[Scubapro]

You're making too much sense. Gotta say your posts have been on point.

Id also like to think about if we could somehow have kept DRad from leaving for Clemson. It's no coincidence that Clemson took it to another level after his arrival.

I think this is where GT fans can rejoice. We seem to have an AD who gets it now like DRad did. That gets us more resources and the ability to retain or get new coaches until we get this thing rolling. My original post wasn't intended to seem like CGC has it easier than CPJ did. I merely wanted to point out an issue that no coach can overcome, it's something the AD must fix, and that's already started. I'm pissed at the current state, but I also get it. It's year one and as I've said before, I'm holding final judgement until the end if next year as far as direction goes. I'll be calling to keep or fire CGC after year 3.

In the meantime, there is hope, no matter how hopeless it may seem.

Does he get it? Do we have 15-20 recruiters on staff to go through game film and build relationships with high school coaches, who are all dwag lovers. The only way CGC may be successful here is to fire PatenFraude If he holds onto him like a magic talisman We will be looking for a new coach to dig us out of a 3-33 depth of hell i three years

 

[dtm1997]

You're making too much sense. Gotta say your posts have been on point.

Id also like to think about if we could somehow have kept DRad from leaving for Clemson. It's no coincidence that Clemson took it to another level after his arrival.

I think this is where GT fans can rejoice. We seem to have an AD who gets it now like DRad did. That gets us more resources and the ability to retain or get new coaches until we get this thing rolling. My original post wasn't intended to seem like CGC has it easier than CPJ did. I merely wanted to point out an issue that no coach can overcome, it's something the AD must fix, and that's already started. I'm pissed at the current state, but I also get it. It's year one and as I've said before, I'm holding final judgement until the end if next year as far as direction goes. I'll be calling to keep or fire CGC after year 3.

In the meantime, there is hope, no matter how hopeless it may seem.

Bruh. LazyAD didn't get it.

LazyAD increased the GTAA's debt to get buildings built, while the overall operations funding shifted to the "Tech Fund".

He simultaneously de-emphasized contributions to the A/T Fund, where the underlying scholarships come from, resulting in stagnation, as opposed to growth in donations.

Finally, LazyAD didn't give a **** about basketball and can be directly traced back to the bulk of our current situation.

At Clemson, he walked in to a situation where IPTAY had been accumulating for years and years before the big boom in college athletics money, giving him an existing foundation to start building new buildings.

**** LazyAD

 

[Js-showman]

The answer to convincing kids to come to a program that cannot beat the Citadel is to clearly increase the recruiting budget. Lipstick on a pig really helps.

 

[slugboy]

Just like Ross capitalized in the 1990 success? Or Gailey did from the Acc championship?....oh wait

Ross left the year following the championship. Had he stayed, he could have capitalized on it. Gailey got a great 2007 class after playing in the 2006 championship


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[g0lftime]

Ross stayed about 5 years everywhere he coached. I am very grateful for the years he gave us at GT. He also had great assistant coaches.

 

[RonJohn]

I'm not being condescending when I say that you must not understand human nature. Some people are OK with cutting off their nose to spite their face. That was what Bobinski did to CPJ. Bobinski believed that he had the financial support, and this is a bit dark, there were some donors at the time that went along with Bobinski in witholding money, as long as they could get rid of CPJ. If you remember how badly this board was divided during CPJ's last years, it was the same scene at the upper levels with the admins and donors. There is a LOT of stuff that I've heard about that went on behind the scenes that boggles the mind because it just meant GT as a whole ended up getting hurt and not just CPJ.

I do understand that some people never do the right thing. I do understand that most people at some point make decisions that aren't well thought out. The level of bad decision making related to MBob just amazes me. Some of this is rumor, but it appears to likely be true:

If there was financial support to get rid of CPJ, then why wait for the buyout to go down? Get the large donors who wanted CPJ gone to put up the money to pay him off.

MBob was supposed to be the leader of the GT Athletic Association. If he had presented a vision of GT football and where he planned to take it, that would have worked much better for support to replace CPJ than behind the scenes shenanigans. Did he need support from more people on the GTAA board? If so, I would think that those people would know and understand a lot more about the behind the scenes actions/issues than we do. Did he need the support of fans? I don't see how. Also, as I stated if he is the leader of the GTAA and can present a vision and have the fans follow him then shenanigans aren't necessary. Did he believe that CPJ would fold at the first sign of pressure? I have only met CPJ a couple of times at handshaking type events and do not know him personally. However, from what I do know about him I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that he has a fold under pressure type of personality.

Why ignore large donations from some "big money" donors because of an understanding that other "big money" donors will donate if CPJ leaves. If all of the rumors are true as to timing and names of some of the people involved, TStan was able to accept the $4 million donation to upgrade the locker rooms (That MBob turned down) and still able to get a $5 million donation from the "big money" donor who wanted CPJ gone after CPJ left. Allowing the football team to suffer didn't help MBob gain a $5 million donation. Allowing a "big money" donor to help the football team didn't prevent TStan from getting that $5 million in the end.

 

[jojatk]

Johnson couldn't capitalize on great 2008 and 2009 years in regards to recruiting. He just wasn't a good recruiter. He wouldn't have been a good recruiter running a different offense and the offense he did run didn't appeal to many recruits, especially the top ones. Spending more would have eased the burden a little, but it wouldn't have gotten rid of the other issues in regards to recruiting.

Paul Johnson will never be confused with being a great salesman but I don't think it's fair to conclude that he just wasn't a good recruiter. I've known plenty of GREAT salesmen and saleswomen who struggled to sell their products until the company invested in some actual bizdev resources to do some of the prospecting and cold-calling that the account reps didn't have time to do across their entire patch. And as soon as that investment was made their pipeline magically started to get more full and they started being able to prioritize better the companies and people and opportunities they had so they spent their time more wisely and closed more and better deals. Of course the ladies and gentlemen who were just amazing sales people did better than those who weren't but even those who weren't did a lot better when management spent resources to help them.

I am a big fan of CGC and I support him and his coaches. CGC is an absolute eagle when it comes to marketing and sales. He will out-recruit Paul Johnson with equal or better resources (and he's getting better resources). I am also a big fan of CPJ and honest enough to say that Paul is not a "salesman" (and I'm pretty sure he would take that as a compliment). But I have no doubt that he would have recruited better here than he did if he had gotten any support from the athletic department like he should have. The athletic department should look back in shame at how little they supported the football team during CPJs tenure. I will be forever grateful and will forever revere CPJ for the great times he gave us, especially under the circumstances of so little support that he got.

 

[IEEEWreck]

One can believe our spending was unacceptable while simultaneously believing it wouldn’t have helped Johnson much.

It is?

Do you find the spending unacceptable for aesthetic reasons?

Because otherwise if you believe spending more wouldn't matter it follows that spending less is acceptable.

 

[lv20gt]

Paul Johnson will never be confused with being a great salesman but I don't think it's fair to conclude that he just wasn't a good recruiter.

Of course not....

Poor recruiting was on the AD.

Poor defense was on the DC(s).

When the offense struggled, it was the execution.

Somehow, Johnson was never at fault for any of our issues. It was always someone else.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Paul Johnson wanted young men that were mature beyond their years, that would sell out for program success more than individual success - that, along with his system did hamper recruiting in my humble opinion. He never suffered fools (either in the press corps or in any other area). Remember, "don't get on that plane, Dontae"? The problem is that most of the guys we need are not that mature yet - they are still kids, and some of them are less mature than their age. By the way, that in itself is another reason it is hard to convince them to come to a place like GT.

NOTE: At the military academies (like Navy), these are the young men he was able to work with.

 

[RickStromFan]

It is?

Do you find the spending unacceptable for aesthetic reasons?

Because otherwise if you believe spending more wouldn't matter it follows that spending less is acceptable.

No amount of spending was going to bring certain types of OL / DL to the program. Not sure why this is debatable when plenty of kids and HS coaches have confirmed it numerous times but most quality-talent HS football players simply did not want to play in the PJ Scheme. No amount of $$$ was going to change that.

I still don't understand why we needed much more than gas $$$ to recruit better in metro ATL and yet failed to do so for over a decade, again according to almost every metro HS football coach.

 

[RickStromFan]

Paul Johnson wanted young men that were mature beyond their years, that would sell out for program success more than individual success - that, along with his system did hamper recruiting in my humble opinion. He never suffered fools (either in the press corps or in any other area). Remember, "don't get on that plane, Dontae"? The problem is that most of the guys we need are not that mature yet - they are still kids, and some of them are less mature than their age. By the way, that in itself is another reason it is hard to convince them to come to a place like GT.

NOTE: At the military academies (like Navy), these are the young men he was able to work with.

I agree with this 100%. Also, Navy literally recruits itself. There are plenty of quality young men that you describe who will choose a service academy over any factory for many reasons (all of them good ones). Service Academy coaches don't have to fly around the country, spreading the word about their programs. Certain kids will go there no matter what and the reputation is already well-known.